What would you use for a student who wants independence?

[LatinTea]

My dd wants to 'just get her school done'. She is 14; need I say more?

 

I have tried many approaches to stimulate a love a learning, but it just is not happening for her. Maybe something along the way will interest her, but right now, she pretty much does not like anything about 'school'.

 

She relies on me for help with math (we use Saxon Alg. 1/2 and do it together every day). Her tests show that she is relying too much on me. :glare: I also have just taken up Latin with her again, which she abhors. These two things, right now, take up a couple of hours. Should I just give her the math and let her stumble through it? We have used many other ways of learning, Math u See, Miquon (she did like this one, but it's too young for her now), Abeka, Singapore Primary Math, and probably others I can't remember. Saxon works for her because it gives her those little bits every day. Yes, it does work even though she doesn't get them all right on the test. I think she scores lower because of ME actaully helping too much every day! Does that make sense?

 

She is mechanically inclined (loves to take apart things and put them back together again), she loves birds (watching and taking care of her pet budgie), and she sings beautifully (is participating in a co-op singing group). She also is a prolific reader, loves to be on the computer, and plays piano (hates that though).

 

I guess I would like ideas for a daily schedule to get the basics done. I are contemplating Notgrass for American History, Lightning Lit for American Lit and SOS Spanish I. I am struggling with science as she doesn't like the Apologia texts that I already have, but everything else looks hard (BJP). I am also trying to come up with a better plan for writing.

 

The main thing is independence from mom. I know it would be very good for her to be 'in charge' of her learning and, of course, she is wanting it right now. Any and all suggestions would be welcome!

[Halftime Hope]

Sorry about the subject line typo! Arghh!

 

Take this as a gentle prompt, not as any kind of condemnation, OK?

 

My two remaining students are sleeping in on their Good Friday, thus I'm legitimately not engaged in school at the moment, but does any of her "just get it done and over with" attitude have to do with your not being available to help her get through her school efficiently? It sure did for my dd. We had to recognize that my loosey-goosey approach was not working for her, and I had to get more regimented. :) She's been a far happier camper since I got my act together. (YMMV...just askin' :rolleyes: )

 

Curriculum suggestions: Apologia is independent, but my kids also really enjoyed the BJU sciences except Physics. Mrs. Erickson and Mr. Harmon are both fantastic teachers, and the material wasn't too hard. (The textbooks may look intimidating, but the job of a teacher is to help students pick out what is really important and concentrate on those concepts.)

 

For self-teaching math, Chalkdust is great, as is the Margaret Lial's series with the DVTs. The Lial's textbooks are perfect in their explanations--very clear and step-by-step. You mentioned that review is essential for her...be sure she does all the periodic reviews in the book, not just the chapter lessons.

 

hth

[Alphabetika]

In our experience, Notgrass is very do-able independently. My dd 14 just completed the American History (the history, reading the literature and extra readings, and answering the chapter questions, not the English portions) independently.

[LatinTea]

<<< but does any of her "just get it done and over with" attitude have to do with your not being available to help her get through her school efficiently? It sure did for my dd. We had to recognize that my loosey-goosey approach was not working for her, and I had to get more regimented. :) She's been a far happier camper since I got my act together. (YMMV...just askin' :rolleyes: )>>>

 

(sorry, I messed up the quote thingie)

 

Yikes, I almost took this the wrong way and then I remembered how I've recently got what I meant turned around on another forum. Anywho...

 

I'm trying to see where my first post indicates that I'm not available to my dd for school. I think I'm too available and have maybe covered for her, not wanting to let her experience too much failure. She is not like her brother in that learning comes easy for him. She has to really work at it, which is hard. So, actually she may do well in this tough old world by working hard IF she can get it together and take on more challenges. We have a daily schedule that is written out for her to follow, but she is more interested in checking off the boxes than actually learning anything from what she is doing. Do I sound irritated? Guess I am. I always make plans, attempt to carry them out and then get slammed with, 'this is boring, or when can I be done?' I know it's mostly the age she is....

 

As for science, we did watch Mr. Harmon on the sample video on BJs site. She did kinda like the experiment that they showed and I could sense that he was a pretty good teacher. I just have to get over the $400 price tag, I guess. I think science could be something she does love, given her mechanical inclination. I so want for her something that she excels at, every kid needs that.

 

My dd is working on her Saxon as I type this. She's doing school and is irritated that her brother, who is at a co-op debating the U.S. and its approach with India, isn't doing 'school' today. Well, I had better go check on her progress. When I looked in last (after giving her the lesson to finish on her own), I opened the door and she had the camera on the tripod making a movie of something on the Internet! She got mad at ME for opening the door and messing up the movie. I told her that math was first and she finally got the message and is now hopefully about done.

 

Thanks for listening!

[lllll]

..

[Halftime Hope]

I'm trying to see where my first post indicates that I'm not available to my dd for school.

 

Nope, your post said nothing of the sort. :) I just know what it was like around here with three kids, endless paperwork, hubby needing things done for him, etc., etc. I had to get ruthless about no interruptions, because what I was doing wasn't working. I just wondered if that was part of her problem, but it sounds like that is not the case. My apologies for overlaying what you said with what we had experienced. I truly did not mean to offend...

 

From what you've described, she is at a perfect stage for learning to take responsilibilty for her own success or failure. I'm at that stage with my last student as well.

 

re. BJU: we found a satellite dish and taping (old days on VHS...can now be done on computer or some kind of storage/playback device) multiple courses to be much more economical than renting/leasing the individual courses. It really wasn't hard...just set the schedule and do it consistently.

 

(Ds is done with his math now, so I'm going back to check the work with him.)

 

Best wishes to go along with those sincere apologies.

[LatinTea]

Nope, your post said nothing of the sort. :) I just know what it was like around here with three kids, endless paperwork, hubby needing things done for him, etc., etc. I had to get ruthless about no interruptions, because what I was doing wasn't working. I just wondered if that was part of her problem, but it sounds like that is not the case. My apologies for overlaying what you said with what we had experienced. I truly did not mean to offend...

 

From what you've described, she is at a perfect stage for learning to take responsilibilty for her own success or failure. I'm at that stage with my last student as well.

 

re. BJU: we found a satellite dish and taping (old days on VHS...can now be done on computer or some kind of storage/playback device) multiple courses to be much more economical than renting/leasing the individual courses. It really wasn't hard...just set the schedule and do it consistently.

 

(Ds is done with his math now, so I'm going back to check the work with him.)

 

Best wishes to go along with those sincere apologies.

 

Thanks for the kind reply back! Actually, your post was good to make me look at how I was teaching and if it was her issue or mine.

 

On a side note, she did finish her math! It took her less time to do it without me there than with me. That says something right there. Maybe I was the one distracting her and making it take forever!

 

Bob Jones is now only DVD, Online, or hard drive (you probably know this) so that cheaper option no longer exists for me. But I gotta realize that this could be a really good thing for her.

 

Thanks again!

Margo

[LatinTea]

So is she working in her room, alone, surrounded by many electronic 'toys'?? If so, maybe the solution is to plunk her down at a table away from all distractions where she knows you can see her. You could be doing other things, but always in sight to keep her on task ... and also you'd be available for 'quick' questions.

 

I sit at the table with our 16yod when she does her math. I'm doing other things, sometimes, but she calls out her answers and I check them. If she misses it, she tries again. If she misses it several times, I pick up my white board and begin to read the problem aloud, etc. She sometimes has to ask for clarification about subject matter of word problems, etc. This has been working very well for several years now.

 

Yes, we have an issue with distraction. As I just posted, I may be part of the problem during math. We constantly banter back and forth about how to do the problem or I over-teach and try to give way too much info.

 

She used to do all her work at our dining room table, but we have a big window there and she loves watching birds (or the deer or this year, we've had a fox or two). But, it's still less of a problem than in her room. In there, she has a computer, her two cats, her one budgie, music on the radio, and another big window to watch the birds.The thing is she doesn't want to do her school in the dining room....maybe I should just insist on it. She does her writing on her computer though. I could break the time up between both areas I think.

 

Thanks for the help! M

[Guest Katia]

You could look at ACE which is completely self-teaching. I hear that their sciences are very good, especially if you purchase the DVDs to go along with the worktexts. For an independent worker, this curriculum could be very advantageous.

[FloridaLisa]

I have tried many approaches to stimulate a love a learning, but it just is not happening for her. Maybe something along the way will interest her, but right now, she pretty much does not like anything about 'school'.

 

***

 

She is mechanically inclined (loves to take apart things and put them back together again), she loves birds (watching and taking care of her pet budgie), and she sings beautifully (is participating in a co-op singing group). She also is a prolific reader, loves to be on the computer, and plays piano (hates that though).

 

I see a bit of disconnect between these statements. On one hand, she hates school; however, she is a prolific reader, bird enthusiast, singer and computer hound. In trying to think through this with you, perhaps you could change the approach she's been using for education. If she's a prolific reader, would she love a living book-based history study? Does she like literature studies? Could you create an independent project or course of study around her interest in birds that she worked on after completing the meat of the day (ie math and Latin)? Does she like computer courses or merely the social aspects of the computer? If the former, perhaps online courses would help. Some, like Potter's School, apparently even have a *classroom* feeling in which the kids get to know each other.

 

I have found that my junior and senior high dc really like (need) the stimulus and challenge of an outside class. This doesn't have to be a co-op or paid class. We've put together girls book clubs and science labs to facilitate our at-home studies. The outside classes are very motivating for my dc and they of course love the social interaction. So, for instance, if she loves reading, perhaps a high school lit/writing class would bring a surge of energy to her studies.

 

If at all possible, I would try to work and see how you can breathe some new life into her studies rather than giving in to a checklist approach. And I don't think you have to change everything. My kids have to eat vegies before ice cream. ;) The trick, I suppose, is finding the right dessert that will be incentive enough to plug away at the math and Latin.

 

HTH,

Lisa

[Halftime Hope]

But I gotta realize that this could be a really good thing for her. Thanks again! Margo

 

 

You know, I just went to look at BJU's site. Their prices include the student textbook and all the class/teacher's notes, which for most of the science courses is a ton of paper! (Biology included enough to fill two 1.5 inch notebooks.) It's really not that much more than I'm paying for Apologia at the co-op for my #2 student, who wanted to take Chemistry with real. live. people. :lol: (She is on her way to an art major, so I relented on Apologia...)

 

Do you have anyone with whom you could put together an Apologia co-op? That would be very economical. We did that for General and Physical sciences before our Homesat experience, and it wasn't difficult at all.

[LatinTea]

I see a bit of disconnect between these statements. On one hand, she hates school; however, she is a prolific reader, bird enthusiast, singer and computer hound. In trying to think through this with you, perhaps you could change the approach she's been using for education. If she's a prolific reader, would she love a living book-based history study? Does she like literature studies? Could you create an independent project or course of study around her interest in birds that she worked on after completing the meat of the day (ie math and Latin)? Does she like computer courses or merely the social aspects of the computer? If the former, perhaps online courses would help. Some, like Potter's School, apparently even have a *classroom* feeling in which the kids get to know each other.

 

I have found that my junior and senior high dc really like (need) the stimulus and challenge of an outside class. This doesn't have to be a co-op or paid class. We've put together girls book clubs and science labs to facilitate our at-home studies. The outside classes are very motivating for my dc and they of course love the social interaction. So, for instance, if she loves reading, perhaps a high school lit/writing class would bring a surge of energy to her studies.

 

If at all possible, I would try to work and see how you can breathe some new life into her studies rather than giving in to a checklist approach. And I don't think you have to change everything. My kids have to eat vegies before ice cream. ;) The trick, I suppose, is finding the right dessert that will be incentive enough to plug away at the math and Latin.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

It does seem apparent that I'm rather clueless as to how to make things better. We have used Sonlight mostly and I have read many, many books in the 11 years of Sonlight. I believe that is why she is a good reader since I'm also sure she has a touch of dyslexia.

 

I would love to make learning come alive for her. Last year I was going to do just what you said with birds. I had it all planned, the books purchased (found this wonderful World Atlas of Birds), along with geography materials. We were going to study the world using birds' habitats, their migration patterns, and how their bodies functioned (life science). I still have all the stuff. Somewhere early on I faltered. The first words of discontent sent me to find ways of making it easier for her, for me, taking this and that away until we 'at least got the basics done'. Really, no wonder she is bored. I take the blame for a lot of this. :sad:

 

As for the computer, I think its a mixture of both, the social and computing aspects. She is proud when she can load photos and view them without anyone's help, but she would be on YouTube and emailing her friends all day if I let her. She doesn't have the Internet yet as I know she just couldn't handle it....her brother let's her use his though at times.

 

She also takes that choral class at a co-op (paying $375 a year so I think it's more of a school!). I asked her if she would like to take some more classes there next year, but she has told me that she doesn't want to. I think she feels shy and also doesn't want to be responsible for yet more school work.

 

I'm painting her as lazy, but I want to clarify that she has some wonderful qualities, an amazing smile, and a big heart (except for those pesky squirrels!). :)

 

Margo

[jibaker103]

I think I'm too available and have maybe covered for her, not wanting to let her experience too much failure... We have a daily schedule that is written out for her to follow, but she is more interested in checking off the boxes than actually learning anything from what she is doing. Do I sound irritated? Guess I am. I always make plans, attempt to carry them out and then get slammed with, 'this is boring, or when can I be done?' I know it's mostly the age she is....

 

I had the exact same problem with my son!!! It turns out his issues stemmed from me not giving him enough responsibility for getting his work done and recreating school at home. My son didn't like cracking open a textbook for the majority of his learning he kept telling me he wanted to be fun. Well I was stuck on the word fun instead of listening to what he was actually saying. My son loves to read and it turns out that was all he was asking for...to read living books and discuss them with me at great lengths, lol! We have been doing this for history and literature for just a week now but the difference has been incredible!!! There has been no "I'm bored" since we started!!!!! So maybe that is an approach you can take with your daughter since she loves to read and somehow incorporate her love of birds.

 

My son also hates math and would do anything to get out of it. I told him there was no way to get around a textbook but we could figure out a way to make it more interesting and the solution has been Teaching Textbooks. The fact that he gets to interact with the computer and listen to explanations has broken up the monotny for him. He still doesn't like math but now the power is in his hands...he's in charge of watching, reading, and and answering questions instead of arguing with me!

 

Finally I would really reconsider the placement of computer, tv, etc. Once these neat little gadgets/time wasters were out of my son's room he was more interactive with the family, got better quality of sleep, and I was more aware of how much time he was actually spending on them. I instead created a gameroom in the loft where he could hang out and invite friends over after his chores and learning was done!

 

I'm still learning about my son and what works and doesn't but I hope some of this helps. Good luck!!!!

 

Jennifer

Mother to Noah Age 13

[FloridaLisa]

It does seem apparent that I'm rather clueless as to how to make things better.

 

***

I'm painting her as lazy, but I want to clarify that she has some wonderful qualities, an amazing smile, and a big heart (except for those pesky squirrels!). :)

 

Margo, I don't see you as clueless at all! Rather, you come across as a concerned parent who really wants to reach her child in the best way. I cannot tell you how many of us have done the same on these boards; the ladies (and gents) on this board are my virtual guidance counselors! ;)

 

Kids are hard to figure out sometimes. And it's even harder when you are living it. I've had umpteen discussions on this board and IRL about the 13-14 yo age when hormones are kicking in and the work ethic and deep thinking have all but disappeared. :tongue_smilie: So, hang in there. Then too, idealism can't always be valued over pragmatism.* I have always had to accomodate for my large family size, what we could afford, what was locally available, how much my child could digest and what would put him/her over the edge. The best education is what will work for your dd and what you, as parent/teacher, can get done. So, absolutely no guilt there.

 

I don't think I've answered your question, but I hope I've encouraged you to keep on keepin' on. When I am at a loss with my dc, I cry out to the Lord and ask him to show me what to do. He is faithful. And the boards are helpful too! :001_smile:

 

Lisa

 

*This was for those NCFCA debaters out there!

[LatinTea]

Margo, I don't see you as clueless at all! Rather, you come across as a concerned parent who really wants to reach her child in the best way. I cannot tell you how many of us have done the same on these boards; the ladies (and gents) on this board are my virtual guidance counselors! ;)

 

Kids are hard to figure out sometimes. And it's even harder when you are living it. I've had umpteen discussions on this board and IRL about the 13-14 yo age when hormones are kicking in and the work ethic and deep thinking have all but disappeared. :tongue_smilie: So, hang in there. Then too, idealism can't always be valued over pragmatism.* I have always had to accomodate for my large family size, what we could afford, what was locally available, how much my child could digest and what would put him/her over the edge. The best education is what will work for your dd and what you, as parent/teacher, can get done. So, absolutely no guilt there.

 

I don't think I've answered your question, but I hope I've encouraged you to keep on keepin' on. When I am at a loss with my dc, I cry out to the Lord and ask him to show me what to do. He is faithful. And the boards are helpful too! :001_smile:

 

Lisa

 

*This was for those NCFCA debaters out there!

 

...the United States Federal Government should significantly change its policy toward India. :D My ds has done team policy for the past 5 years...made it to Nationals once. He didn't do it this year and has really missed it, but there's only so many hours in the day. Does one of your children do LD?

 

As for me, thanks for the words of understanding. That helps a lot just knowing that I'm not alone in this journey.

I am going to think about all the posts and see what I can come up with. At least I feel like trying again. I asked my dd about doing a World Geography course with birds as the central focus and I do believe I saw a glimmer of interest.

Margo

 

[Veronica in VA]

I see a bit of disconnect between these statements. On one hand, she hates school; however, she is a prolific reader, bird enthusiast, singer and computer hound. In trying to think through this with you, perhaps you could change the approach she's been using for education. If she's a prolific reader, would she love a living book-based history study? Does she like literature studies? Could you create an independent project or course of study around her interest in birds that she worked on after completing the meat of the day (ie math and Latin)? Does she like computer courses or merely the social aspects of the computer? If the former, perhaps online courses would help. Some, like Potter's School, apparently even have a *classroom* feeling in which the kids get to know each other.

 

I have found that my junior and senior high dc really like (need) the stimulus and challenge of an outside class. This doesn't have to be a co-op or paid class. We've put together girls book clubs and science labs to facilitate our at-home studies. The outside classes are very motivating for my dc and they of course love the social interaction. So, for instance, if she loves reading, perhaps a high school lit/writing class would bring a surge of energy to her studies.

 

If at all possible, I would try to work and see how you can breathe some new life into her studies rather than giving in to a checklist approach. And I don't think you have to change everything. My kids have to eat vegies before ice cream. ;) The trick, I suppose, is finding the right dessert that will be incentive enough to plug away at the math and Latin.

 

HTH,

Lisa

 

:iagree: Cornell has a distance course on birds - you might do a search for it. I lost a lot of my bookmarks recently, but it shouldn't be too hard too find. One naturalist I know said the best way too actually learn science was to center biology (and the other sciences where possible) around the child's interest. So I think her interest in birds might work really well here. A math where she could just get it done might be the best solution. Teaching Textbooks could fit well here.

 

Veronica

[JennW in SoCal]

Margo,

 

In creating studies that capture your dd's interests, you don't need to start out quite so grand as your geography of migratory birds idea (though it is a great idea!) Start harnessing her good qualities little by little rather than having a semester long or year long plan. For instance, have her write about some of the book she reads. Assign books that tie in with her interests, whether biography or science or fiction. Have her do short research projects. If it seems an idea isn't working, it isn't that big a deal because it isn't a large scale plan -- it is just a book or short research project.

 

Find some volunteering opportunities through music or birds -- can she be an aid at a children's choir, work at wildlife rescue organization, a local natural history museum? Take a course in nature photography? Being with adults sometimes is a far better motivator than being in a co-op with other apathetic teens! Some homeschool teens prefer the company of adults.

 

Cornell University has all kinds of great resources for bird enthusiasts. We did Project Feeder Watch this year and my ds is going to do their bird biology course next year. http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/

 

Smaller assignments can lead to much larger projects that can take up junior and senior years. It is simply a matter of giving your dd the time to refine her interests as she matures and helping her develop her own ideas for large-scale projects. This kind of learning doesn't fit neatly into the kind academic checklist we think of for high school, but it is a real and valuable kind of education that is unique and specialized.

[motherdear]

I've said it once and I'll say it againThe Progeny Press guides and Total Language Plus are very independent and wonderful programs! What you do is purchase for programs with the books. This makes a high school credit for English Lit. They are very Christian oriented and thorough!

The conventions are coming up! Check them out!

[ciyates]

Thanks for asking the question. My son is very :tongue_smilie:!

[ciyates]

LOL that should say my son is very similar! :tongue_smilie:

[mom31257]

This is what we do. I make a list of dd's assignments for the whole week. We sit down on Monday morning and have a "meeting". We discuss our weekly schedule of field trips or anything special out. She takes the list and assigns herself which assignments to do each day. Each morning she starts her assignments on her own, while I work with her little brother. After I'm done with him, she comes to me with any questions she had. We're doing history and some science together. While they eat lunch, I read history, then do any activities for history or science. After that, she and I sit down for discussion from her morning assignments. She turns anything into me that needs grading and then I discuss anything I found incorrect.

 

She has really blossomed with this, feeling much more in control and independent of me. She doesn't really help me choose curriculum or topics of study, but she has willingly spent more time on topics that have sparked an interest.

[jellogirl]

Should I just give her the math and let her stumble through it?

 

If she is capable of independent study, I say yes. Check out the DIVE cd lessons for Saxon math. They are so helpful.

[LatinTea]

This is what we do. I make a list of dd's assignments for the whole week. We sit down on Monday morning and have a "meeting". We discuss our weekly schedule of field trips or anything special out. She takes the list and assigns herself which assignments to do each day. Each morning she starts her assignments on her own, while I work with her little brother. After I'm done with him, she comes to me with any questions she had. We're doing history and some science together. While they eat lunch, I read history, then do any activities for history or science. After that, she and I sit down for discussion from her morning assignments. She turns anything into me that needs grading and then I discuss anything I found incorrect.

 

She has really blossomed with this, feeling much more in control and independent of me. She doesn't really help me choose curriculum or topics of study, but she has willingly spent more time on topics that have sparked an interest.

 

I really like this idea! I was thinking today that a meeting would be a good thing to do and here you have spelled it out for me. But, are you saying that you have a discussion time every morning, right before lunch, to check how the morning went? The 'meeting' is what you do before each week begins?

 

I am going to think this out some more and make my plan. My dd has said that she would like World Geography this year. She doesn't like history too much so maybe this is a break she needs. So, planning is what I'm doing right now. I've run the gamut to all video school with Bob Jones to TOG! There are too many choices, but glad to have them. :)

 

(I also wanted to thank the mom who gave me more info on how to use birds, but doing it in small amounts. That was awesome advice, as I always think I have to do it big to get it done right, but really I should do it smaller to actually get it done!)

 

Thanks again!

Margo

[LatinTea]

If she is capable of independent study, I say yes. Check out the DIVE cd lessons for Saxon math. They are so helpful.

 

I purchased the new Saxon Teacher CDs when RockSolid had them on sale awhile ago. I hope they are good...I liked the fact that it is a lady teacher and that she does ALL the problems in the book with worked out solutions. I like the DIVE ones too...

 

Margo

[mom31257]

We have the schedule meeting on Monday mornings. We do touch bases after I'm finished with her brother (which is always before lunch) if she had anything she didn't understand or needed explained. Then after we're done with history and science, we sit down for things like discussion questions in her reading assignments.

[WTMindy]

Yes, we have an issue with distraction. As I just posted, I may be part of the problem during math. We constantly banter back and forth about how to do the problem or I over-teach and try to give way too much info.

 

She used to do all her work at our dining room table, but we have a big window there and she loves watching birds (or the deer or this year, we've had a fox or two). But, it's still less of a problem than in her room. In there, she has a computer, her two cats, her one budgie, music on the radio, and another big window to watch the birds.The thing is she doesn't want to do her school in the dining room....maybe I should just insist on it. She does her writing on her computer though. I could break the time up between both areas I think.

 

Thanks for the help! M

Might I suggest that even though she got done faster, she may still need your help? I would stay on top of correcting the papers right away, giving instant feedback for her assignments and having her do her corrections that same day. And, if you are letting her use the teacher's manual, I would make sure that she understands what she is doing. I have found that students rely on the teacher's manuals to help them also. (Maybe this doesn't apply to you.)

[Stephanie/MO]

an outside course. We have tried art, music, and math.

Giving her complete independence on a subject or two seemed to help the transition a bit.

Blessings,

Stephanie

[FloridaLisa]

[/font]My ds has done team policy for the past 5 years...made it to Nationals once. He didn't do it this year and has really missed it' date=' but there's only so many hours in the day. Does one of your children do LD?[/quote']

 

Sorry I missed this! We had a busy Easter day and I'm now making birthday dinner for one of my boys. :001_smile: No, we are TPers all the way. When I tried to think through that LD resolution with my fellow coach, my head hurt. But I've seen some wonderful LD debaters this year. My oldest formally dropped debate this year, though he couldn't stand it and ended up writing a case and talking his former partner into teaming up again. Wow, there seem to be a lot of NCFCAers on the board nowadays!

 

Hope all works well for you as you continue planning.

Lisa