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Why would you NOT allow your dc to read Harry Potter?nt


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For arguments sake, IF my dd wanted to look at a Playboy or SM video, she "could" learn something that would "turn her on" in the future, in a s*xual relationship with her spouse. OR, reading an article in Playboy, she could learn about something personally applicable to herself, etc. :D She could learn the "how's" of s*x in a more private, less embarassing way than asking a real live person ;) IF that's what she'd rather do. <shrug>

BUT, I already stated that I do not want to debate this aspect of our values here, in another post. Different people have different interests, and I don't like judging others interests- even if they aren't for "me", KWIM? I mean, there's a reason there is a p*rn industry- people like it, people make money off it, etc. If it had absolutely no value to anyone, it wouldn't exist.

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Wow! I'm so confused. Are we supposed to reply at different spots in the same thread? I've just been hitting reply at the bottom?

 

If you want to reply to a particular message, hit either the quote button or the little icon on the end -- that will put your reply directly under the person you are "talking" to.

 

If you have a more general reply, the Post Reply button will have you reply to the thread as a whole or the subthread you're in when you post.

 

I just use the buttons inside the message I'm replying to, and that seems to work.

 

Learning curve, eh? ;)

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People view these threads in different ways, you can either quote the person you are replying to, or you can hit the reply button at the bottom of the actual post you are replying to, rather than the button at the bottom of the page- it helps keep the thread in order for those who use the threaded view or hybrid view.

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Can't each of us say another's interpretation is "skewed" simply because it doesn't align with our own?

 

You betcha.

 

"I do think that if a reason given is inaccurate or could lead others into an interpretation that could be skewed, a clarification is called for."

 

and if i offer a skewed interpretation, i would expect someone to offer an opposing side. That happens a LOT, esp w/ scripture. Considering there are lots of people lurking, I offer the info not necessarily for the person to whom I am responding, but also for those saying --hey....that seems like an important point....

 

I'll feel free to elaborate cuz there have been a LOT of discussions about HP, and I like it when someone offers as much info at one time as possible. :cool:

 

And as Pam mentioned, "why's" were a reasonable question. I disagree that every response needs to be cut n dried. I think there is room for discussion. And I think I gave a lot of room for different viewpoints in my own post :)

 

ftr, i don't think this is a troll either. :D

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I'm not trying to debate value systems, and I'm certainly not trying to judge anyone... about HP or in general. I'm very, very sorry if it sounded as if I were.

 

Eliana

 

It is kinda hard to have a discussion about personal values w/o ticking off people, lol. Don't sweat it too much. The magic words are "it works well this way for our family." :cool:

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I wasn't trying to imply that you were judging anyone's decision, :) and I wasn't offended by your post (though I suspect many will be offended by my reply, though that's not my intention). I just said that *I* don't like to judge others decisions or interests at all. Oh, phooey, I'm not saying that you "are" judging them, LOL, just that I kind of extremely dislike anything remotely judgemental about other peoples choices, does that make any sense? And I'm not judging others who do make such judgements, LOL. Clear as mud? ;)

Yes, lots of people draw lines, and those will be different for every family. Some people are a bit radical and don't have any "lines" though- some may have dotted lines when it comes to the legality of children's/family members choices- and some may not. :D

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Good question. I think it was more about the emphasis -- it was obvious that HP would be front and center with the teachers and libraries for the kids. Let's face it, the whole thing was exciting, new, different and the kids were responding. From a literary perspective, HP books are so long that you could read a number of books that are "great literature" in the same amount of time. Then again, for a kid to tackle a 200-pg. story after finishing off one of the later HP's might feel like a piece of cake even if the content was weightier. Hmmm.

 

Dc here are just getting to the age and reading levels that they might want to tackle one, we'll see.

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Yeah, I should clarify that I don't necessarily think it's a troll, I just happened to find that little emoticon and I wanted to use it. And yes, people can talk about it without fighting...it's just that I don't think too many well intentioned people join a message board and the first thing they think of to talk about is HP, you know?

Whatever. confused005.gif

 

I find it interesting that the OP hasn't been back to discuss further...

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We are Christians and we love Harry Potter, the books and movies. I think they are good children's books and there are some great themes in the story. We enjoy them.

 

When the first 4 books were out, they finally came to my attention, my mom bought them for our oldest and I read them aloud to him, since I've read all the rest aloud, going back and rereading the first 4 to my dd when she was around 9 or 10...now I'm rereading them again to the younger two. I never would have handed them over without reading them as well.

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Well, I wasn't looking for anyone to "bite."

 

i'm sure YOU weren't, but having been around discussion boards long enough, i know there are many out there who were likely itching to answer but not willing to enter the foray :)

 

 

Love won't save anyone from the Beast. It's not even God's Love that saves us, it's His substitutionary death. If God's Love had been enough, He would not have been crucified.

 

Right. And that death was all bound up in God's love for us --God *is* Love. That's all i meant.

 

 

And, when deciding whether or not the books are appropriate for my children, I didn't consider Harry's will. OK, so Harry didn't will to receive the mark, but what about the children who willingly wear his scar?

 

I do need to clarify -- scripture says the mark is forced, not necessarily taken willingly. However, Scripture also says there IS a choice. But that choice will mean beheading. If the mark you are told to wear comes w/ a "wear this or be killed by us" kinda warning, then that's a dead giveaway we're talking about the scene in Revelations. [pun intended]. If the refusal to take a mark does NOT result in death, then it likely does not match what scripture warns about. {{we might need a separate thread just for exploring the mark, lol}}

 

so.....That goes right back to what the "scar" is all about. To begin with, Jesus did not equate a lightning bolt itself with the mark of the Beast --He equated the speed of satan's fall w/ that of how quickly lightning strikes. So we still have no evidence of what this mark is. Some might say that the ashes received on the forehead during lent are "the mark". But scripture does not say that anything on the forehead is bad-- it says the mark will be used expressly for buying and selling and come w/ a lethal alternative. That happens nowhere with this scar. edited to add: don't forget that the phylacteries are told to be bound to the forehead and hands too. Interesting correlation....

 

anyway....

 

Harry was never given a choice, the scar has nothing to do w/ buying and selling, and not everyone was forced to receive this mark. If it isn't the mark received in Revelations, then the kids are not copying Revelations, but a fictional story that does not follow scripture. Some people won't wear wedding bands because of certain personal convictions based on scripture and the pagan origins of it. Some keep their dress and hair and makeup to a minimum to keep them from being sucked in to vanity. Some keep their possessions to a bare minimum to stay far away from materialism. Others determine that it is a heart issue.

 

 

The children wearing a washable temporary tattoo as a Harry Potter fan craze are most likely NOT wearing the mark of the beast for purchasing power. If they aren't, there's no horror to be desensitized to. i do believe we need to be on the lookout for those things revealed in scripture, but i also believe that we need to make sure that what we are seeing is discerned as something we DO need to be horrified at or something that has little to do w/ what God has actually told us. I absolutely believe that when that day comes, there will be No Doubt as to the horror of such an occurrence. People will be beheaded. That is, if you are following a literal reading of scripture. as you mentioned, if one doesn't believe that, this discussion would be total hogwash;)

 

 

I can appreciate that you are concerned w/ the desensitization of children. I simply don't share that concern over this particular issue based on my own understanding of scripture. Thankfully the Body is composed of members that look nothing like each other. Hearts, toes, rectums, and snot, lol. They look different and focus on different things, but they all work to the glory of God.

 

i do not say all this to convince you one way or the other --that is not my job :-) I only offer this [as i said earlier] for others who might have the same question and might be looking for more info. And even if one decides that the scar part isn't necessarily relevant, there are still PLENTY of reasons to avoid HP, lol. Good discussion tho!

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1.) They are too busy reading LotR.

 

2.) Depsite the LotR movie, I just have a thing about "popular culture" that turns into a "thing" with movies and merchandise, etc... I feel more generous if it's considered good literature like LotR and Narnia, although I realize some think HP is awesome literature.

 

3.) They have expressed no interest, not spending a great deal of time around anyone else who is really into the books/movies.

 

4.) Not really into glorifying witchcraft, etc... Don't know if the books do or not, although it seems to be a theme. We all listened to and then watch LotR together, so can discuss it intelligently/appropriately. I'm not big on Nanny or the Poppins gal either, but don't feel the need to ban them, just discuss them. I'm not big on parts of Narnia, for that matter.

 

If one of my kids expresses any desire at all to read the books, I'll probably read them first. But so far, no one's remotely interested.

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We've encouraged our kiddos to read HP. However, my cousin is opposed b/c they feel Harry represents a defiant child. He ends up on the winning side of the issue, but is repeatedly oppositional to his authority figures. It's an interesting argument.

 

This is part of why HP appeals to me. I don't want my children blindly obeying authority figures. Better have a reason not to, though. And some cohorts to run your ideas by are always a good idea. ;)

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Whew, LOL, I'm glad you enjoy the discussion and aren't offended. It's so hard to be clear in this format at times.

My childhood and life experiences are what have lead me to make the choices I have too. :D

My mom was very lenient, let me date older men, let me spend the night with friends that I shouldn't have, let me go out with people I shouldn't have, and was pretty naive or rather in denial. She even let me spend the night with my dh at a 26yo man's house (26yo worked with us and was a friend of dh and I), and while she said I could talk to her about "anything", there was a certain "shame" put on certain topics. That was the result of her childhood, which was not at all pleasant- the girls in her large family were shamed because of the fact that they were girls, etc.

I would much rather have my DC exposed to things in our home, and have them ask their questions without any feeling of shame or humiliation for talking about the subject (drugs, sex, alchohol, etc). I guess this would be a whole 'nother thread though, :D So I'm done.

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1.) They are too busy reading LotR.

 

.

 

I'm just wondering if they've read the entire Anne of Green Gables series, with your moniker being Call Me Cordelia...One could argue that there's a lot of fantasy, etc, in some of those books (but not witch craft!) :) I've been reading some of them to my 9 yo.

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well I for one hope she doesn't feel too off-put to jump in :D

 

i bite, but not that hard :cool: i promise to be nice and reserved to her since she's new and all. I'll take it out on Toni later, mwahahahahaha.

You just remember that my fangs are just as sharp as your claws, little lady. ;)

 

I'm calling you now...hehe

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I'm just wondering if they've read the entire Anne of Green Gables series, with your moniker being Call Me Cordelia...One could argue that there's a lot of fantasy, etc, in some of those books (but not witch craft!) :) I've been reading some of them to my 9 yo.

 

 

LOL. One could argue almost anything about almost any book!! I will never forget some of the scathing reviews I read about Elsie Dinsmore and Christy. Not that any book is perfect, but these reviewers were heated, by golly.

 

Alas, while they all like the movies and we have recently been enjoying Tales from Avonlea (TV show) on dvd from the library, not a one has really taken to Anne in book form.

 

And then, of course, some of LMM's books make some serious statements about theology. (One really takes on predestination in a most humerous form.)

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Peek A Boo, I agree with everything you said (theologically) except I do believe the children are being desensitized to the taking of the mark and I do believe HP is a part of that process. I believe it is a deliberate part of the brainwashing process that has to occur and it's one of multiple clear signs that we are at the end of the age. That's what we believe and that's why we won't give the books to our children to read. Also, I do not believe the future mark will be a lightning bolt but the lightning bolt is an occultic symbol of enlightenment. When that day comes, the deception will be so great, as you know. The deception won't come over night... there is a process. A whole generation has to be conditioned to receive a false Messiah. Willingly. Conditioning doesn't happen quickly. Maybe (well, clearly) you don't see a connection and I understand that. I deeply respect that because I haven't always seen it myself. But, unfortunately, after studying this for about three years, I now believe and am convinced that there is a connection. I do hope I'm wrong.

 

 

Many warmest regards,

Donna T.

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. Conditioning doesn't happen quickly. Maybe (well, clearly) you don't see a connection and I understand that. I deeply respect that because I haven't always seen it myself. But, unfortunately, after studying this for about three years, I now believe and am convinced that there is a connection. I do hope I'm wrong.

Many warmest regards,

Donna T.

 

all i can add is that even those who have studied it their entire lives at seriously deep levels disagree with what the signs will look like, so I can't say you are entirely wrong ;) Thanks for your thoughts!

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Alas, while they all like the movies and we have recently been enjoying Tales from Avonlea (TV show) on dvd from the library, not a one has really taken to Anne in book form.

 

 

 

Well, having just read the entire series, I think some of the books in it are more fun and interesting than others, especially for children. I'm done with LMM for now, as I have other reading on my agenda for the moment. My 12 yo never took to it, either, so we listened to the first 2 on tape.

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Guest Virginia Dawn
Um, because *I* was busy reading them? ;) (Okay, now that all the books have been published, that's not going to be a problem any more...)

 

The only thing that will keep me from allowing a child to read one is if I feel he is not capable of separating fiction from reality.

 

Ds's 17 and 14 have read every one. Ds 8yo read book 1 and has attempted some of the others only to lay them aside. He has listened to every audio recording however. He has also watched the pg movies, not the pg-13 ones, but that's standard policy.

 

The 3yo is not allowed to watch any of the movies or read the books. ;)

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:eek:I asked this question last night and thought I would look to see if anyone had replied!!

I am sorry-I have a chronic sinus infection and had a CT scan done today-not to mention a very irritating sinus probe. My ENT wants to put me on two months of antibiotics-have you ever heard of this? I do not want surgery-I had sinus surgery when I was twelve that has left scarring and now I have polyps and very bad infection. Woe is me :(

Anyway, I have been a super careful mom of any and all influences on my 13dd who was my one and only- until three years ago.

Now I have a 3ds (very high maintenance) and a 1dd, recent miscarriage, feeling bad, etc etc,. I just don't have the time to think as much about some things and I heard a very nice respectable young woman in our church mention that she is reading Harry Potter and told dd she could read it too. My daughter loves fantasy, LOTR etc.

I have to admit that's all I went on-I did warn dd not to make a big deal of it, because dh is a pastor and it could offend some. Anyway, while babysitting for a friend of mine the other day, dd told her what she was reading and later my friend said "I can't believe her dad would let her read that!" No explanation and I really didn't want to ask.

I haven't read all the post here-I need to go to bed-but I will. Thank you ladies for being such a great source of info for me-about everything-It seems anytime something comes up in life there's a post about it here:)

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If it's any help, I've heard pastors split on this issue too. "It's fiction --don't base your theology on it and you'll be fine" or "a Real christian doesn't need to ask if they should read HP --they should already know that it's evil." [[yes, i actually heard that phrase from the pulpit at the baptist church down the road. But I expected it}}.

 

If your dh is a pastor, has HE read them? In your specific situation, I would encourage your dh to read them so he can give an informed answer --regardles whether he comes down on the yay or nay side. Shoot --even show him this thread so he knows what kind of questions to expect, lol. But he should absolutely be ready to field questions ASAP. and the best way to do that is to have first hand info-- don't rely on anyone else's critique. Study it in light of your own personal convictions and decide from there.

 

hope you're feeling better soon!

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Thanks for the article, I'll have to look at it. My perspective is from the early days of the phenomenon, perhaps what some *hoped* would happen, that HP would launch kids into more weighty reading. Funny you brought up Goosebumps. I think that series and the babysitter's club books were what people were hoping to get kids beyond. Wonder what's coming next?

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You are so right-I have resolved to read them as dd finishes. I need to understand it all better and probably enjoy them too. As for Dh-we'll see:)

Right now he also has to work as a personal trainer (ok before you ask-he doesn't train me, I stay home and have only gained)

and doesn't have alot of extra time, but we are possible getting another church soon-full time.

Thanks for your encouragement.

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Redmom3,

 

My dh is a pastor as well. When these books first came out, the consensus in our homeschool group and the Christian community at large said they were evil and not to read them.

 

Well, tell me something is not to be read, and I will read it myself to form my own opinions! So I did, and I didn't see anything wrong with HP. I had my pastor dh read it and he didn't see anything wrong with it either, so I let my then 14yo son read it, with dh's approval.

 

However, I did NOT let my younger dds read these books. They were also very protected and simply not ready to read and understand what is contained within these books. The author herself said she will not let her children read them until they are older, and that they are not written as children's books (although they have been marketed that way), but rather she wrote them as a way to deal with death in her life as an adult.

 

I agree that it would be good for you and your dh to read these books so that you know the content. They are full of Christian symbolism. The author was not able to acknowledge this until the final one was published, but she now does so. For more information on that, check out hogwartsprofessor.com. Books by John Granger are great to help see the Christian symbolism and are also wonderful literary analysis tools in general. I'm so glad we discovered them.

 

I was so excited to read the post here by the lady who expressed what she felt Harry's scar represented and why. Wow! What a perfect example of Christian symbolism, although the author of that post didn't realize it as she used the scar for a reason *not* to read the books! (a case of forming opinions by not reading)

 

She was right on target that Harry's scar is a symbol of evil. It is the sign of an evil curse and he hates it and wishes it was gone. It is the sign that he has evil in his life. It takes him years to discover the extent of the wickedness of that evil, how to fight it and how to love perfectly and completely. It is only when he is willing to give his life as a sacrifice that the evil is conquered and the sign of evil as represented by the scar is removed from both his forehead and his life. Powerful stuff!

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I just wanted to clarify, LOL, that dd does not look at P*rn mags or videos, and no- I would not allow that. She's free to choose whatever she wants when she is 18, and I am pretty lenient on lots of things, but *I* wouldn't allow that.

I just didn't want you all thinking I'm some crazy whacko mom that gives my dc beer and p*rn, LOL. :D

('cause I'm a control freak and need to have "some" control over how people see me, LOL)

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Redmom3,

 

My dh is a pastor as well. When these books first came out, the consensus in our homeschool group and the Christian community at large said they were evil and not to read them.

 

Well, tell me something is not to be read, and I will read it myself to form my own opinions! So I did, and I didn't see anything wrong with HP. I had my pastor dh read it and he didn't see anything wrong with it either, so I let my then 14yo son read it, with dh's approval.

 

However, I did NOT let my younger dds read these books. They were also very protected and simply not ready to read and understand what is contained within these books. The author herself said she will not let her children read them until they are older, and that they are not written as children's books (although they have been marketed that way), but rather she wrote them as a way to deal with death in her life as an adult.

 

I agree that it would be good for you and your dh to read these books so that you know the content. They are full of Christian symbolism. The author was not able to acknowledge this until the final one was published, but she now does so. For more information on that, check out hogwartsprofessor.com. Books by John Granger are great to help see the Christian symbolism and are also wonderful literary analysis tools in general. I'm so glad we discovered them.

 

I was so excited to read the post here by the lady who expressed what she felt Harry's scar represented and why. Wow! What a perfect example of Christian symbolism, although the author of that post didn't realize it as she used the scar for a reason *not* to read the books! (a case of forming opinions by not reading)

 

She was right on target that Harry's scar is a symbol of evil. It is the sign of an evil curse and he hates it and wishes it was gone. It is the sign that he has evil in his life. It takes him years to discover the extent of the wickedness of that evil, how to fight it and how to love perfectly and completely. It is only when he is willing to give his life as a sacrifice that the evil is conquered and the sign of evil as represented by the scar is removed from both his forehead and his life. Powerful stuff!

 

This was my feeling too when reading Harry Potter. There are many books I am reluctant to let my children read (and luckily they choose not to read them). My headmistress mother thinks Jacqueline Wilson and Anne Fine books are great ways to get children reading. I find them badly written with a bad attitude. They certainly don't lead onto classic fiction.

I wouldn't let a young child read Harry Potter, but for the same reasons I wouldn't let a young child read the C S Lewis books or Lord of the Rings: violence and cruelty. I am still unsure why Harry Potter is different to Tolkien or Lewis. They are written very much in the same tradition of Christian symbolism. And, in my ignorant opinion, they are written just as well. :eek:

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Pam, I am not understanding you. Here, again, is my underlying point:

 

I think she is saying that she was engaging in some speculative imagining. As in, "Okay, I've allowed it. But let's suppose for a minute that I had decided not to allow it. What would be some good reasons to back up that decision?"

 

Sorta like preparing the opposing POV for a debate, only not because you're intending to tear it to shreds. Instead because you're assuming that the "other side" is not crazy--they just have (perfectly good) reasons that didn't particularly move you.

 

I do that from time to time--respectfully answer a question as if I agreed with my own answer, while clarifying, just for honesty's sake, that it was not my own position. Or pointing out how far even people who disagree on something can agree on something. ("Well, no, I don't share your conviction that Carolina Blue is, in fact, an attractive color; however, since I do think of Duke Blue as God's own favorite color, I think we can at least agree that Blue is better than red. (Down with the Terps!)")

 

Anyway, at bottom, I agree with you. (And I suspect Pam mostly does too.) She was just pointing to a situation that might seem to be like what you're talking about, when really it's a respectful contribution from someone who wasn't necessarily addressed by the OP.

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Thanks, Sarah; I do understand now that Pam was answering theoretically. No doubt ~ we all do that from time to time. What gave me pause in this thread were the "I have no idea" replies and what I perceived as efforts to explain/correct the thinking of those who offered reasons why they don't choose HP. (Hmm...that last bit is rather long-winded but I'm not up to rewording right now. And after all, you're good at translation.;))

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I haven't prevented my dc from reading Harry Potter; they've just never had an interest in reading them.

 

When Harry first came out, we talked about the storyline, etc. Dc said they thought they sounded boring and that they could think of lots of other books they would prefer to read.

 

They've read LOTR, Narnia, etc., but for some reason HP doesn't interest them.

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I honestly don't understand the witchcraft argument. Snow White has a witch that casts a spell. Little Mermaid has the same. This is not meant to be a confrontational statement. I just don't know what the difference would be. I can see how the tone may be too dark for sensitive children. Mine have not read it for that reason--just personal choice.

 

We do not have a TV so it is not a big issue. Based on scriptures in the Bible against witchcraft we choose to avoid any movies or books that portray them, including some popular Christian series.

 

Kari

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Kari,

I was wondering if you avoid Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' and 'Macbeth'? Do you read the Narnia books? Would you read a book such as 'The Witch of Blackbird Pond'? I am sorry to ask you to explain to yet another uneducated person but the Christians I know in Europe generally don't have these views on witches and fairies in literature. Have C S Lewis books and fairy tales always been avoided in American Christian culture, do you know?

Many thanks for sharing your views and knowledge.

Lorna

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Not Kari, but this view of witchcraft is not practiced by all American Christians- actually I'd say most don't avoid it. I do remember reading books about the Puritans though, where they avoiding any type of make-believe (no play acting- that would be "lying"). Of course, my views could be totall wrong, ;)

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Not Kari, but this view of witchcraft is not practiced by all American Christians- actually I'd say most don't avoid it. I do remember reading books about the Puritans though, where they avoiding any type of make-believe (no play acting- that would be "lying"). Of course, my views could be totall wrong, ;)

 

One of the issues as well is that there was an unfortunate re-naming of the first US edition of the book by Scholastic. John Granger is an interesting source for a conservative Christian view of what kind of magic is being spoken of in the bible and what kind is used as symbolism in literature such as Potter, LOTR, etc. Googling "sorcery John Granger" will give you similar results, some of which aren't pre-digested on someone's blog. :p

 

Not trying to convince the OP, or even the OP of this thread, but just mentioning this as a topic for perusal for Lorna.

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Kari,

I was wondering if you avoid Shakespeare's 'A Midsummer Night's Dream' and 'Macbeth'? Do you read the Narnia books? Would you read a book such as 'The Witch of Blackbird Pond'? I am sorry to ask you to explain to yet another uneducated person but the Christians I know in Europe generally don't have these views on witches and fairies in literature. Have C S Lewis books and fairy tales always been avoided in American Christian culture, do you know?

Many thanks for sharing your views and knowledge.

Lorna

 

Hi Lorna,

 

I avoid Narnia and Shakespeare for now. I have not read Witch of Blackbird Pond so I can't say. I do not think most American Christians have this view. I def do not think CS Lewis is avoided. Most friends allow their young children to watch the LOTR trilogy. I prefer to just not go there.

 

Thank you for your kindness and deference :-)

 

Kari

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Hi Lorna,

 

I avoid Narnia and Shakespeare for now. I have not read Witch of Blackbird Pond so I can't say. I do not think most American Christians have this view. I def do not think CS Lewis is avoided. Most friends allow their young children to watch the LOTR trilogy. I prefer to just not go there.

 

Thank you for your kindness and deference :-)

 

Kari

 

Thank you Kari too. It is good to hear your views. I know how wearing it is to have to defend decisions we have made in order to give our children the best possible upbringing. I admire you for yours. :)

 

Thank you for the other replies too and link. Very interesting.

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