Has anyone had a kid go to community college, then University?

[JennifersLost]

I'm sure people have. Here's my question.

 

My oldest wants to stop worrying about all the tests - the SAT, subject tests, etc. He just wants to learn and really concentrate on the things he loves. If we just plan to put him in communitiy college at eighteen can we just skip it all? I hope this doesn't sound like I'm slacking off, but I'm getting sick of trying to twist what we're doing into "transcript" form. For example, when we're listening to Teaching Company history lectures I'd like to just listen to them rather than worrying about whether he's writing enough essays, too. He's sick of essays and I'm sick of trying to get him to write them just to have "something to show". He's going to know way more history than most kids graduating from high school anyway. (He will have gone through two complete history cycles, plus a ton of extra reading).

 

Our money situation is such that he will either need to do a couple of years at Community College or get some pretty big scholarships. And the truth is he just doesn't feel like doing the kind of work that's going to get him scholarships. My second son, on the other hand, will both love to take the SAT and will probably do very well. He's that kind of kid.

 

All my kids are getting well-rounded educations. They really are. So if my oldest wants to start at community college can I just let him? Is there some hidden pitfall I'm not seeing here? Since tons of my other friends' kids are taking community college classes in highschool (we aren't allowed to do that here.) I'm assuming that he won't need any particular prerequisites to take basic classes in his freshman year, right?

 

I'm so ready to let go of the worry and just let this kid be before I kill all the love of learning he has in him.

[Melissa in CA]

My middle son, who wants to be an engineer, talked to many of his older engineer friends at church. They all recommend going the cc route for the prereq's and then transferring to a local engineering school for his last two years. There were some who did both, so he got both views.

 

Not only is the education just as good as he'd get doing his prereq's at a university, but it is also thousands and thousands of dollars cheaper. He knew that he was not smart enough to get a full ride at an engineering school, so he didn't want to even bother with the stress of trying too. That is just him. He's a very bright kid, but extremely practical. Instead, he doubled up in highschool and got out a year early. He'll have a year of college behind him when kids his own age are just beginning.

 

My youngest will probably take cc classes while IN highschool, AND get out a year early as well. At least that is the plan. ;)

 

All that to say... There are no guarantees that your ds will get a full ride scholarship to a university and if you cannot afford to make up the difference in any scholarships he MIGHT get, then I would go the cc route and let him enjoy the rest of his hs years. CC can be expensive as well, but not even close to the cost of a university. Plus, I have heard that some homeschooled boys do better not going right into a university out of high school. The temptations of a university social life apparently get in the way of education. ;) Hopefully that is the exception and not the rule. :) How about trying to CLEP out on some college subjects instead?

 

Anyhow, my thoughts, I am sure you will get some who feel the complete opposite. :D

[K-FL]

For our cc, all student's must have either ACT, SAT, or their College Placement Test to place them in the correct level of classes regardless of your age.

 

I personally don't see any reason not to start him at the cc. The cost of cc is usually much less/hour than university & if they have matriculation agreements, you haven't lost anything credit wise. All the "how to afford college" books I've read mention cc as a cost saver too. Esp. if the student can live at home. I've heard that the Univ. of Florida encourages all but the best & brightest to start at a cc, then transfer in--esp. as juniors. Cuts down on their drop-out/transfer-out rate & keeps the freshman classes from being so huge too, I'm guessing.

[TxMama]

If we just plan to put him in communitiy college at eighteen can we just skip it all?

So if my oldest wants to start at community college can I just let him? Is there some hidden pitfall I'm not seeing here? Since tons of my other friends' kids are taking community college classes in highschool (we aren't allowed to do that here.) I'm assuming that he won't need any particular prerequisites to take basic classes in his freshman year, right?

 

I'm so ready to let go of the worry and just let this kid be before I kill all the love of learning he has in him.

 

Yes, yes, yes. That is the route my kids are taking, the route I took, the route my husband took, the route my FAMILY(brother, SILs, etc) takes. Guess what we are all successful adults without any student debt. Successful as in doctors, nurses, hospital administrators,etc.

 

Your son can take the college entrance exam at your local CC. Cost for ours was $25 and he can take it when he wants. Once he "passes" a section he does not need to retake that section again. I had my kids start taking this test early age 15-16 even though I didn't want them to start taking classes until 17-18. Depending on his major or potential University he may never need to take the SAT.

[G5052]

The local CC's are tied to the 4-year colleges with very strict transfer policies and even guaranteed admission and scholarships with a certain grade point and specific degree requirements. IMHO for a family that prefers the first two years at home for whatever reason, it's an ideal situation. You spend far less and the kid has a nice transition period.

[Larissa]

is that someone like your second son who tests really well can get a free-ride at a 4-year college/university, but many of those scholarships are only open to freshmen, not transfers from CC or another school.

 

My oldest is just taking classes at cc, but will begin at a 4-year school as a freshmen in the fall on a full scholarship. My other kids, I think, may just stay at cc for 2 years, unless something better comes up for them.

 

Larissa

homeschooling 5 in NJ

[Guest Katia]

My ds did the 2-yr cc route then transferred to 4-yr university. It was a great choice for him.

 

However, at our cc, we had to supply a high school transcript before he could be enrolled full-time and he had to take the placement exam. Full-time enrollment and grades on the transcript qualified him for academic scholarships (which he received a full-ride!). After the first semester they requested that he take the ACT for his files and for use in transferring his credits to a 4-yr university.

 

So, in our case, he didn't get out of any of the things you are looking to get away from....but.....it was a LOT cheaper than paying for 4-yr of university, and the ACT scores didn't make the difference between admittance or not; nor did they affect his scholarship eligibility at the cc. The ACT scores were used in determining scholarships at the 4-yr university.

 

Also, make sure you check with your cc and let them know you are looking at having your ds take transfer classes. At our cc, the classes are different for those just going for their AA as opposed to those wanting to transfer.

[Nan in Mass]

Only you know whether these are really down sides for your particular son...

 

Many scholarships are only available to freshman. If you have too many CC classes, you may be considered a transfer student and therefore not eligible for freshman scholarships. (On the other hand, your CC may have a transfer agreement with your state university in which the student continues to pay the CC tuition price for university tuition. At ours, the student needs to maintain a 3.0 to do so.)

 

Taking CC classes means you begin university classes at a higher level, which is sometimes a disadvantage for social reasons (you don't get to know the freshmen in your class), or because you then need to do harder classes while you are learning to live away from home, or because you may find the higher classes harder because you took the prereq's elsewhere.

 

Sometimes students find it harder to "do" college if they aren't living at college. There is a certain momentum that is gained when lots of students live together all doing the same thing. Help is easier to get if you live on campus. Sometimes it is easier to study at college than at home where the rest of your family is watching TV all evening and expecting you to help with chores and watching your siblings. (On the other hand, uni, too, has plenty of distractions, CC classes tend to be smaller than uni classes, and the CC profs try hard to overcome these disadvantages.)

 

It often seems as though more of the younger CC students are just passing time. Their parents have said they must work or go to school, so they are going to school, but they don't want to be there and aren't contributing to the classes. (On the other hand, the older students tend to be very motivated.)

 

Unfortunately, we've known a number of students who tried CC but couldn't make it work, some because they didn't really know what they wanted to do, some because studying at home was too hard, some because CC was so much like high school that they didn't feel like they were getting anywhere and gave up and got a job to be grownup instead, some because their friends weren't students and tempted them to play in the evening after work instead of studying...

 

I'm not at all trying to discourage you from doing this. I'm just trying to answer your question about what the disadvantages might be.

 

: )

-Nan

[Ellie]

Yup. Dd graduated from the community college (she had taken some time off to attend and graduate from cosmetology school through the c.c., also), then transferred to the state university where she entered as a junior. She graduated with a BA in English Lit. She paid her way by working as a hair stylist. She's still doing that, BTW. She considered going on to law school, took the LSAT and got a decent score, checked out a law school, but decided she likes doing hair. :-)

 

Anyway, yes, she did that. We have no regrets.

[Rose in BC]

They did their first couple years there and then went on to university (one was able to do all her nursing 4 yrs in Terrace). One is a teacher, one will graduate next year as a teacher, one is in real estate and the last one is doing an electrical trade.

 

BTW, his first dd tried going to a university in a large city (the university had a bigger population than our town) and had a difficult time making the adjustment. She came home, did two years in Terrace (commuting). Went on to finish her schooling at university with no problems.

 

This is the route I think my kids will take.

[JennifersLost]

I just emailed them yesterday to see if they'd allow a kid to start there early. Not sure if we would do this or not, but I'm thinking if my oldest can finish up with high school next year (in 11th grade) and then go on to community college it might really motivate him.

 

Or not, LOL. I'm not sure. But I just wanted to know what they'd say.

[Rose in BC]

I just emailed them yesterday to see if they'd allow a kid to start there early. Not sure if we would do this or not, but I'm thinking if my oldest can finish up with high school next year (in 11th grade) and then go on to community college it might really motivate him.

 

Or not, LOL. I'm not sure. But I just wanted to know what they'd say.

 

I would also like to know if they're willing to register a student who doesn't graduate with a dogwood. Currently we're in a DL program and it is working well but I do worry about the upper grades which will require me to do more of what they want and maybe less of what I (and my kids) want. I want to know all my options for the upper grades. I guess I'd better fire off an e-mail too, although my kids are younger.

[TravelingChris]

Both my husband and I went to a very highly respected high tier school for our undergraduate degrees. We then attended graduate schools at different institutions. Our oldest started at a small LAC and is finishing at a large state University. I don't know yet what the last two will do. That said, I am all for people starting at CC if that is their choice. I don't like highly intellectual, highly ambitious children being forced to start at a CC because of parental choice but I am equally against parents trying to push children to go to ambitious programs when the child himself or herself knows that a lesser stress program would be better.

[JennifersLost]

Rose, I think you should email, too - they need to know that more and more people are going to be interested in this.

 

She emailed me back and said I'll have to get the approval of my DL advisor, or something like that. I haven't emailed back yet to tell her I don't have one of those.

 

Before I push too hard I want to have a clear plan for what, exactly, I want.

[HockeyMom]

Ladies,

 

First off, hello to you all and to the rest of the hive. I’m a newbie to these boards and am overwhelmed at the wisdom, insight, and thoughtful responses everyone posts. WOW!

 

Rose and Jennifer,

I’m in B.C. as well and am just starting to wrestle with “accreditation†down the road. Things like “CLEPs,†“SATs,†and “ACTs†aren’t thrown around quite so much in our neck of the woods, are they? Instead it’s “Dogwood,†“Adult Dogwood,†and B.C.’s “Provincial Exams.†:confused:

 

For what it is worth, do either of you attend the B.C. Homeschool Association conference down in Surrey in June? They are having a seminar on “To Dogwood or Not to Dogwood: The B.C. Graduation Program.†Karen Gledhill is one of the facilitators. She is Vice Principal of Traditional Learning Academy. I’m not with TLA, but they are an independent DL school with a fairly active contingent of registered (vs. enrolled) homeschoolers, I believe.

 

I can’t really add any insight re. BC’s community college admissions/dual enrollment practices for homeschool grads/homeschooling high schoolers, but it’s something I’ll be pursuing soon. I’ll update the board if anything of interest comes to light. Hopefully you’ll share as well. :)

 

Cheers!

[SheWhoWaits]

Well, we haven't finished this course yet, but my older ds has been going full time to the community college for 2 years now (he started at 15 and will be 17 soon). He's now applying to colleges as a transfer student and getting very positive responses from those he's interested in.

[JennifersLost]

Greetings, Michelle -

 

Yes, this board is awesome.

 

Since I'm an American living in Canada, I talk about both sets of tests/accreditation stuff, but since we're here in BC now, this province's rules are on my mind.

 

I am not going for a Dogwood diploma for any of my kids. Neither do I enroll the kids under umbrella schools of any kind. I register them locally and I do the rest.

 

The only question right now is whether my oldest son might want to take a CC class locally or not, either next year or his senior year. I wanted to start asking questions now, so I'd know what was available and what problems might come up.

 

I might focus next year on getting him "finished up" with high school. Then the following year have him take some core courses at the CC. I'm just not sure yet. I might let him spend his final year just doing projects. We'll see.

[Mary in MN]

I teach English at a community college, and, at my school at least, I really believe students often get a better education than they would at most 4 year schools. The first two years of school are mostly spent fulufilling general ed requirement which are often taught in large lectures or by graduate students. We have many students come back to visit our college who tell us that, in terms of personal attention and teaching, their years at community college were better than their final two years.

 

The college will administer placement tests to make sure he's college ready--so no, you don't need any particular prerequisites. Our college considers anyone ready to take algebra to be college ready. And no one who has been educated with TWTM should have any trouble passing the writing and reading placement tests!

My seventh grader can write better than many (though not all) of my cc students.

 

At the same time, I've known many students at our college who have excelled at cc and transferred to the school of their choice without any trouble, and often with generous scholarships.

 

OTOH, I won't be sending my oldest son to cc. Why? First, I think it can sometimes be difficult to forge friendships at a 4 year school after the first year. Second, since we plan on doing lots of AP's and SAT subject tests, so I expect he'll be able to place out of many required courses and take more upper level classes his first two years of college, as I did. But my oldest son sounds more like your second son. And we may well send our second son (who sounds more like your oldest son) to cc--right now he wants to work for the forest service, and our college offers excellent programs in natural resources.

 

So all in all...if it feels right, it probably is right. Good luck!

[JWSJ]

Our CC system does not require anything but their own placement test for entry.

 

I would recommend the CC transfer route to my children, especially if they didn't want the stress that goes with the first two years of Uni.

 

I've been unimpressed with the general ed. courses at our local universities.

 

And the first two years of Uni reminded me of a lot of high school socially.

[Rose in BC]

Rose, I think you should email, too - they need to know that more and more people are going to be interested in this.

 

She emailed me back and said I'll have to get the approval of my DL advisor, or something like that. I haven't emailed back yet to tell her I don't have one of those.

 

Before I push too hard I want to have a clear plan for what, exactly, I want.

 

We are still a few years away but I'd like to know what the possibilities are. Why would a DL advisor help your son get a college course?

[HockeyMom]

Why would a DL advisor help your son get a college course?

 

Rose,

 

Perhaps this requirement is in connection with an underage admissions policy. A college near me indicates that underage applicants will be considered for admission provided:

1. A parent or guardian provides a letter of consent

2. Individuals who are famililar with the applicant's circumstances and abilities provide letters of support.

 

I'm thinking that if one had a DL advisor, they could assist in fulfilling requirement 2.

[Rose in BC]

It's good to hear from fellow Canadians and their experiences. My kids are still a few years away from this but time flies and I want to be prepared.

 

Also, I am always debating the merits of DL programs over just doing what I want with my kids. So far things have worked extremely well with our DL but I know restrictions will be imposed as they enter upper level hs.

[JennifersLost]

exactly; that's why I didn't continue with the DL service. Like the Distance Ed program, they wanted to take control of the curriculum.

 

And yes, the Community College wants to hear from someone "official" that my child belongs in their program.

 

First, I'm going to determine our curriculum for the next two years. Then I'll decide if any of their courses would fit our needs. Then I'll pursue getting him into a class. If it isn't necessary, I won't push. I had just thought it would be nice for him to get challenged by someone else besides me for a change.

[HockeyMom]

Jennifer,

 

You're probably aware of this already, but thought I'd throw it out anyway in view of your recent comment "it would be nice for him to get challenged by someone else besides me for a change:"

 

BC's DL schools (I believe both public and independent) get per student funding from the province. A couple of years ago, funding for students taking courses at the grade 10 to 12 levels changed considerably. Now, grade 10 to 12 programs are funded on a per student per course basis. What this means is that students do not have to be full time DL students to avail themselves of DL course offerings - take one course, take two courses, or register full time - the choice is yours. Nor does a student have to be a full time student at a brick and mortar school to take a DL course. Some DL's also offer AP courses and I think these can be taken as one-off's as well, but I'm not 100% sure about this one.

 

I know you and your son are quite happy charting your own path - we are too :). If it’s some outside accountability you’re after, and your local CC won't budge on dual enrollment, a DL course is another option to throw in the mix.

 

On another note, even tho' my son is only 12, I've always been curious about our local CC's homeschool/dual enrollment policies. This thread prompted me to finally satisfy my curiousity and I made a phone call :D. Here's what I got over the phone:

 

If my son were home schooling for highschool, getting him enrolled in a course or two at our CC would likely be a no go. <I'm taking this with a grain of salt as I don't think I was speaking to a person of importance. Perhaps if "pushed" they would give an applicant a second look ;). Their admission's policy does reference underage students, afterall>

Registering him at the completion of high school with a Mommy transcript (without any standardized test results) involves completing the CC's own assessment tests. There could be additional assessment criteria depending on the prerequisites a program of study has. At our local CC, SAT results aren't recognized alongside a Mommy transcript as they align with U.S. standards.

 

Hope this helps some!

[Rose in BC]

I do have a question for both you and Jennifer, given we all live in the same province. I worry about the upper grades because I really, really, really want to stick to some of the original reasons I began homeschooling . . . namely tailoring a program to suit each of my children. But I wrestle with towing the line which will allow each of them to get a dogwood because I don't want to make life unnecessarily difficult for them when the begin their post-secondary education.

 

How do you reconcile these tensions? (Or do you struggle with this too? ) (Have I hijacked your thread Jennifer?)

[HockeyMom]

Rose,

 

Can I send you a PM regarding BC Accreditation Anxiety?

 

Like you, I'm feeling like we might be hijacking Jennifer's thread :blush:.

[Rose in BC]

Rose,

 

Can I send you a PM regarding BC Accreditation Anxiety?

 

Like you, I'm feeling like we might be hijacking Jennifer's thread :blush:.

 

Thanks.

[Carmen_and_Company]

We used our state's PESO program, which allows juniors & seniors to take classes at community colleges and public universities. That said, if Taz did not enter community college via the PESO program, he still would have to sit the ACT or SAT exams even for community college entrance, UNLESS he was an adult learner--a person who last attended high school at least 5 years prior to applying to the community college. Requirements vary from school -to- school & state-to-state.

[JennifersLost]

Rose and Hockeymom - please feel free to keep posting here; this is really interesting.

 

I do feel this tension, as well, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to cave in to it. I am going to have my son take all the provincial exams that "fit". He won't be able to do the science ones because we learn one subject at a time and it's too different.

 

In addition, I'm keeping all his work. I feel like I will get the Community College to accept him after 12th grade just fine. Even the BC Universities have policies for homeschoolers now, whereas they didn't just a few years ago.

 

I believe we are part of a groundswell. I never expected to be a trailblazer, but I will be one if necessary, kwim?

 

One thing I have going for me as an American is that I "know" it all can be done; so many people are doing it in the US. Therefore, I tend to go into these meetings with the expectations that things WILL meet up with my desires. And I think I am having an affect on teachers and administrators in the area. And will continue to do so.

[Rose in BC]

I also admire you for feeling confident that you'll be able to make things work with your son no matter what choices you arrive at. Deep down, I agree with you . . . apparently I have no guts or backbone to actually go with my "deep down" feelings.

 

And I should. I remember years ago, after adopting our kids, when I decided to quit working. People looked at me like I had lost my mind. I had a great job, excellent wages and benefits and a good pension too. Oh, and someone always had to remind me that "once you quit you'll never get another job". I didn't believe those lies back then but somehow I feel a huge tension when it comes to graduating my kids without that darn dogwood.

 

Lots to mull over.

[mom2abcd]

My middle son, who wants to be an engineer, talked to many of his older engineer friends at church. They all recommend going the cc route for the prereq's and then transferring to a local engineering school for his last two years. There were some who did both, so he got both views.

 

Not only is the education just as good as he'd get doing his prereq's at a university, but it is also thousands and thousands of dollars cheaper.

 

CC can be expensive as well, but not even close to the cost of a university. :D

 

Just to let you know our experience...

 

I'm VERY surprised those engineering students said what they did. Our oldest ds is in his first year at a private university studying engineering. He has had 8 hours one semester and five second in "Core" (English/Literature/Philosophy-type stuff), but ALL the rest was for his degree. First semester he had 11 hours of Calculus, Physics, Intro to Engineering, etc. Second semester he has 12. And it's very hard. His friend at a public university nationally known for its engineering programs was taught by teacher's assistants and the Physics and Calc were similar to what they had in high school. Ds's classes are much harder. There's NO WAY that the classes our son is taking would even be offered at the level they are at a community college.

 

Another one of his friends is at cc and it will cost about $3,000 for his first year. Ds is at a $36,000/year school and with scholarships, etc. will be paying only $4,000. (This includes room and board. His friend will be paying for food and mileage.)

 

At the university ds is at, two years would not be enough time to get in all the classes they require to fulfill the engineering program. It is one of the top engineering universities in the nation, though.

 

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that costs can be similar and the variety and rigourousness of academic requirements can vary quite a bit.

Edited April 1, 2009 by mom2abcd

[JennifersLost]

Rose, I just sent off another email to the woman at NWCC.

 

And it got me thinking. What am I going to do next year when the principal of Thornhill Jr. won't "register" my oldest anymore? I wonder if the people at Cal will do it? Skeena will NOT, and currently my middle son isn't registered anywhere (shhh!).

 

I just remembered I needed to do something about that, so I've asked the principal of Thornhill if he can register there, too, like his older brother. He's looking into it, but if he says no, I don't know what I'll do about that, either.

 

I guess I'll have to find somewhere else that will register us but understand that we're not going for the Dogwood.

[Rose in BC]

In fact, as I understand it if you're registering, and not enrolling, you're free to do what you want, public or private school. You're registering to simply inform the Ministry of Education that you are providing an education for your children.

[CherylG]

I'm sure people have. Here's my question.

 

My oldest wants to stop worrying about all the tests - the SAT, subject tests, etc. He just wants to learn and really concentrate on the things he loves. If we just plan to put him in communitiy college at eighteen can we just skip it all? I hope this doesn't sound like I'm slacking off, but I'm getting sick of trying to twist what we're doing into "transcript" form. For example, when we're listening to Teaching Company history lectures I'd like to just listen to them rather than worrying about whether he's writing enough essays, too. He's sick of essays and I'm sick of trying to get him to write them just to have "something to show". He's going to know way more history than most kids graduating from high school anyway. (He will have gone through two complete history cycles, plus a ton of extra reading).

 

Our money situation is such that he will either need to do a couple of years at Community College or get some pretty big scholarships. And the truth is he just doesn't feel like doing the kind of work that's going to get him scholarships. My second son, on the other hand, will both love to take the SAT and will probably do very well. He's that kind of kid.

 

All my kids are getting well-rounded educations. They really are. So if my oldest wants to start at community college can I just let him? Is there some hidden pitfall I'm not seeing here? Since tons of my other friends' kids are taking community college classes in highschool (we aren't allowed to do that here.) I'm assuming that he won't need any particular prerequisites to take basic classes in his freshman year, right?

 

I'm so ready to let go of the worry and just let this kid be before I kill all the love of learning he has in him.

 

We start when are children are freshman in HS to add CC math and sciences. Then as they get older they take languages, and English. I didn't want my 14-16 year old having to defend their opinion in a classroom when they were just having their opinions crystallize. Our oldest transfered to UCLA, and even though he was a transfer still had to have his SAT scores on the application, so I guess it would depend where they want to go. I always tell people to work backwards. If you know how your child is leaning research those types of schools and get an idea what they are looking for so that you can tailor their High School years towards that. We leaned heavily on the math and sciences with no foreign language-he's slightly dyslexic and I didn't want that grade to affect his GPA. UCLA still accepted him; the physics department really wanted him and he just took foreign language there. He is now employed and will be getting his Masters at Johns Hopkins through employer benefits!! I would just check your local CC requirements. We have another freshman this year and things have really changed here from when our oldest two entered. What people say about not getting freshman scholarships is true here in CA, but we saved so much taking the pre-reqs and then going. Plus, I used that last year to really teach him how to be a roommate. He can cook now, etc.

Edited April 1, 2009 by CherylG