Standardized testing - placement question

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I'm trying to figure out what standardized test to give my 11yodd this year. (I test every year, for my own use -- it's not required by the state).

 

Dd excels in language arts, but is at or only slightly above grade level (6) in most other subjects.

 

Last year (officially the end of grade 5), I gave her the ITBS, Level 12 (grade 6) test. The test was one year above her grade, but she still aced the LA sections (GE=13+, NPR=99th). I'm thinking that this year, end of grade 6, I could give her a grade 8 test to get a better feel for where she's at.

 

My dilemma, though, is that she might freak with a grade 8 math test. She scored 85th% (GE=8.8) last year (again, the grade 6 test at the end of grade 5). She is currently in Singapore 6A, and doing quite well. But, I'm afraid there might be too much on a grade 8 standard test that she has simply never seen before. Besides, just knowing she is taking a math test two years higher than her official grade would stress her out. It might just send her off the deep end. :o

 

To make things more complicated, I'm considering having her take the Stanford test this year, instead of the ITBS. I've always administered the ITBS myself, but the Stanford would be in a more institutional setting (local homeschool support organization).

 

So, my questions are threefold:

1) At what grade level do I test her? One year ahead (to compare with last year, which was also taken one year ahead), or two years ahead (to get a better picture of LA, but possibly sabotage math)

 

2) Do I give her the ITBS test again to have a apple-to-apple comparison with last year? Or, would taking a different test (Stanford or another) give a more objective picture of what she's doing?

 

3) Is there anyway to test LAs way above grade level, while keeping math and other subjects at or slightly above grade level?

 

BTW, she LOVES taking standardized tests. She would probably be up for taking more than one, but I'm not sure I am up to administering more than one. It just takes more time than I have.

[Anne/Ankara]

I would have her continue to take the standardized test for one grade ahead, so that you can compare the results of apples-to-apples each year. That would be helpful to see if she's progressing in all areas at an appropriate rate.

 

But, I would also strongly recommend that she take the SAT test when she turns 12, since she likes standardized tests, and you can really stretch her with that exam. That would open doors to certain programs, and give more validation to where she is in both language arts and math.

 

Just my idea-- this is what we have done with our kids over the years.

[Nissi]

You could buy a higher grade test prep book and have her work through it to see where she is at this year.

 

Our son who is 12 took SAT this year with the Talent Search Program, and I plan on doing the same with my younger ds. too. For the sake of meeting our end of the year state grade requirements I plan on giving him the 8th grade test even though he is officially completing 7nth grade.

Nissi

[Storm Bay]

I don't have any suggestions for a test that tests for different levels in different subjects. If you're trying to figure out where to place your dd, I suggest what a former poster (KPzz) on the old boards did: keep testing until she hits a solid 50th percentile. I haven't done this yet, but I'm considering it strongly for my eldest who is gr 8 this year. I plan to send the grade she's registered in to demonstrate that she's ready for high school (so she can swim on the ps team, although she'll need some kind of special permission as she'll only be 13 in Sept.), but I want to get an idea of where she stands in her different subjects to know what to push and what we can modify because she already has the skills she needs.

[LisaKinVA]

Last year, I used the ITBS as recommended (for grade level son would be entering), and one that was a grade ahead. He also took the CAT (because that was the test we had been submitting to the state -- and I didn't want to screw that up with a completely different test!)

 

While the percentiles changed slightly (more in math, but only slightly in reading/vocabulary) -- the grade equivalencies did not. I know GE's aren't everything -- but not sure that testing again and again would help me or my son determine much than we already knew.

 

FWIW, This year, we will just be taking the ITBS and the CAT (We take the CAT in the spring and the ITBS in the fall). I get more information from the ITBS, but don't want to submit that one to the state.

[KAR120C]

3) Is there anyway to test LAs way above grade level, while keeping math and other subjects at or slightly above grade level?

If you can find someone to administer it for a reasonable price, this is exactly what a Woodcock Johnson would do perfectly. It's administered individually, and they continue the questions until the student can't answer a certain number in a row, so in areas of strength they can keep going without having to keep up the same rate in the other areas.

 

Around here (NC) they run $45-85 depending on where you go, but I've heard of places where they're very difficult to find and/or way more expensive.

[Storm Bay]

keep testing until she hits a solid 50th percentile. QUOTE]

 

Whoops, forgot to put in a key element. I meant choose one type of testing and test each grade from the one she's in on up until you hit a 50th percentile. That's because if a child in gr. 5 tests 90th percentile in a standardized test and they say that's gr 10 level (just a number), that doesn't mean your dc can do gr 10, but that they scored as an average gr 10student would on the same questions. So, if you test in the gr 6 score and get 75th or 80th percentile (just a number for discussion), you keep going. You may find your dc hits 50th percentile 2 or 3 grades higher, rather than 5 grades higher, but it could vary by subject. You may not want to have your dc working in a course level where they only test average, but it gives you an idea of where they really are as the grade levels associated with percentiles can be misleading as to where your dc should be working.

 

Now for IQ testing, it's an entirely different ball game.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to see if the Woodcock Johnson is available around here. If I can't get that, I think I might just put language arts in the "don't need to worry about it -- just keep doing what we're doing because it's apparently working" category. I'll focus this testing on the math.

 

I'll probably test her a grade above, again, to compare last year's math test to this year. But, I think I'll have her take the Stanford instead of the ITBS. I think it will be a better indication of what she knows, instead of just how well she knows the test.

 

I'm guessing that you who suggested taking the SAT are referring to the Scholastic Ability Test (not the Stanford Achievement Test). I wasn't aware that she could take it at age 12. She'll be 12 in July. Maybe I'll look into that. How many times can one take the SAT?

[Renai]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to see if the Woodcock Johnson is available around here.

 

If you find someone, let me know.

 

Renai

[AndyJoy]

Have you checked with private schools for Woodcock Johnson testing? My small Christian school in CA uses it to evaluate all our incoming students.

[Heather in Canada]

I know this sounds funny, but the reason I ask is this; last year, when she was in grade 4 (age 9), I tested her at grade 4, 5, 6 and 7 with CAT tests. She was 99th percentile for total battery even at the 7th grade; her math with the grade 7 one was 90th, and that was her lowest. For her, that's the limiting factor, the math. She's amazing with LA, 99th across the board. I stopped with 7th though, because it just seemed like "hey, way too many tests".

So a couple weeks ago, I tested her at grade 7 again (she's 10 now), and it was a solid 99th percentile. Should I test her with 8th, 9th, etc. til we hit 50th? Does that then tell me she's an "average" 8th or 9th grader? (academically, I know....she's still 10. Plays with dolls. A little girl!!) Is this the right thing to do?

Thanks for your help.

 

keep testing until she hits a solid 50th percentile. QUOTE]

 

Whoops, forgot to put in a key element. I meant choose one type of testing and test each grade from the one she's in on up until you hit a 50th percentile. That's because if a child in gr. 5 tests 90th percentile in a standardized test and they say that's gr 10 level (just a number), that doesn't mean your dc can do gr 10, but that they scored as an average gr 10student would on the same questions. So, if you test in the gr 6 score and get 75th or 80th percentile (just a number for discussion), you keep going. You may find your dc hits 50th percentile 2 or 3 grades higher, rather than 5 grades higher, but it could vary by subject. You may not want to have your dc working in a course level where they only test average, but it gives you an idea of where they really are as the grade levels associated with percentiles can be misleading as to where your dc should be working.

 

Now for IQ testing, it's an entirely different ball game.

[ddandgirls]

Just an FYI - this may vary by state, but where I used to live you could not administer the same test with the same grade level twice ( not that you may want to), but if you give a seventh grade CAT one year, you cannot give the seventh grade CAT again another year and submit it to the schol system. So if you are testing for personal use that's fine, but you will negate later testing with that same test to satisfy school systems. You would have to give another test at that grade level such at the ITBS or some other. Make sense? If you are planning to give higher level tests each year that's fine, but if you want to do it again later for the school system you may need another test. This was the case where we used to live don't know if others have the same requirement. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

I gave my dd (turned 10 the same week we tested) the 5th grade ITBS, one year ahead of where she should have been. She scored 99th in everything except the math subtest where they are timed at a faster rate (she just worked too slow for that section). I plan to give her the 6th grade ITBS just to see how it compares, but it probably won't help me too much. I wrestle with the testing issue each year.

 

On another post a few weeks ago several people were also mentioning the ACT and we plan to look into that for next year.

 

Can you only take the SAT at 12 through a gifted program or can you sign up through the local school and if so what do you need to prove to the college boards they are ready to try it?

 

D-

[Heather in Canada]

We don't have to test here, we literally do it for fun--I enjoy the results, and dd enjoys taking the test!! This is the only time we've ever repeated one, and I just wanted to see if the math score had come up from the 90th percentile.

Thanks for the FYI, though, I certainly appreciate the input.

I heard somewhere about a standardized test that keeps asking questions up to and just past the child's "threshold" for any given subject. Is that ringing a bell with anyone? Because then the grade level in each subject doesn't matter, you just keep asking questions until they get them all wrong. I'd like that kind of test.

 

but if you give a seventh grade CAT one year, you cannot give the seventh grade CAT again another year and submit it to the schol system. So if you are testing for personal use that's fine, but you will negate later testing with that same test to satisfy school systems. You would have to give another test at that grade level such at the ITBS or some other.

[KAR120C]

I heard somewhere about a standardized test that keeps asking questions up to and just past the child's "threshold" for any given subject. Is that ringing a bell with anyone? Because then the grade level in each subject doesn't matter, you just keep asking questions until they get them all wrong. I'd like that kind of test.

 

That's probably the Woodcock Johnson. It has to be administered by a professional, so it can be pricy, but if you're looking at 4x whatever a CAT/5 costs, you might come out cheaper with just the WJ.

[Heather in Canada]

But isn't Woodcock Johnson to ferret out different learning disabilities? I know there's two parts to it; is the academic part just half of that, or does the tester do the whole thing, even if the child has no learning disabilities?

 

That's probably the Woodcock Johnson. It has to be administered by a professional, so it can be pricy, but if you're looking at 4x whatever a CAT/5 costs, you might come out cheaper with just the WJ.

[KAR120C]

But isn't Woodcock Johnson to ferret out different learning disabilities? I know there's two parts to it; is the academic part just half of that, or does the tester do the whole thing, even if the child has no learning disabilities?

There are two parts -- the Tests of Cognitive Skills (I think that's right), which is basically an IQ test, and the Tests of Achievement, which is just an achievement test. I have heard that the Tests of Cognitive Skills are especially good at finding specific learning disabilities, but I don't know which ones... The Tests of Achievement is the section I'm talking about. It's just an achievement test, but it's done individually so they keep raising the level until the kid tops out. It might well be a psychologist that administers it, depending on who in your area is certified... Around here we have a few retired teachers who are certified.

[Heather in Canada]

Thanks, Erica.

 

So they can just give the academic part....

I appreciate the information. I may look around and see if there is someone around here that are certified.

 

Heather

[joannqn]

I just found this thread searching for something and look forward to reading the other messages on the forum after I've gotten some sleep since it is 1:30am right now. But I have the answer to Heather's question.

 

The MAP (Measures of Academic Progress) assessment is what you are describing. It is a computerized adaptive test. If the student gets a question correct, the next question is more difficult. If the question is answered incorrectly, the next question is easier. It is designed so that the student will get 1/2 of the questions correct and 1/2 wrong (which can be frustrating for some students). They have two tests: one that covers K-2 and one that covers 3-12. The results come back with a raw score and a percentile for your child's grade level. The score can then be compared to a chart that shows you the median scores for each grade level (2-10), the scores for gifted children at each grade level, and the scores for at risk children adn 1 or 2 standard deviations below each grade level. I don't know if there is a way to access this test as a homeschool; we took it through the virtual academy we are enrolled with.

 

JoAnn

[Linda in NM]

We've used the Iowa in the past; we just use grade level. My son invariably scores in the 97 and above percentiles--he gets all sorts of letters inviting him to all sorts of places. We did the Terra Nova through Clonlara this year. It's pretty easy to see where they are without the testing, although I like them for accountability (NM just plain makes me nervous).

 

I wave as we pass Algadones, btw...heading up to SF (the back way) again tonight for hockey. All hockey, all the time! Yikes.

[Renai]

I wave as we pass Algadones, btw...heading up to SF (the back way) again tonight for hockey. All hockey, all the time! Yikes.

 

Next time your in SF, drop me a line :).

[Linda in NM]

Glug, glug...last night--and we'll be up again on Monday night--at the hockey rink. My son's been selected as the "#1 goalie his age in New Mexico" to go to the Rocky Mountain District Select camp in Utah next week, and we're doing as much hockey as we can...

[Renai]

Glug, glug...last night--and we'll be up again on Monday night--at the hockey rink. My son's been selected as the "#1 goalie his age in New Mexico" to go to the Rocky Mountain District Select camp in Utah next week, and we're doing as much hockey as we can...

 

Cool!