JenneinCA Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I am a geek. I went to college to be an engineer because that is fun to me. And after that, I started on a master's degree in math. I like math. I like science. I like computers and computer programming. I am currently taking a class in how to play chess. Because it is FUN! I tolerate history. I tolerate English. I suffered though literature in high school. All that discussion about the hidden meanings of the stories and the symbolism went right over my head. I just wanted the facts. Give me a method to get to the answer and a problem and let me go. This wishy washy stuff is insane! All this to say... My oldest loves history and literature. She is advanced in almost everything, but her great love is stories. Fictional or true, she devours anything. And I am way out of my league. And I hate to say it, but I really truly do not want to spend the next 8 years studying a subject that I don't really like just to try to teach it to her. I don't think it would work either. I think the fact that I just don't want to do it comes through. I know there are math courses for parents who don't feel comfortable teaching advanced math. (Not a problem for me!) But what about History and English. I need to outsource these subjects and soon. But here is the problem. The classes need to be non-religious. Really. Biblical allusions when appropriate in the story is fine. Teaching religious world view is not. And further complicating it is the fact that she is young. She is 10, a 5th grader. She can do more than a typical kid her age, but she is still young. She is working on Jensen Grammar, doing Wordsmith Craftsman (did Apprentice as a third grader, Wordsmith as a fourth grader), doing All American History and reading tons of books. The books range from the Anne of Green Gables to Fairy Tales to Pern to Bionicles to everything. She reads really quickly. I don't know what she is getting from the books because she simply both reads faster than I do and she has more time to read than I do. One day after we got home from the library, I was reading picture books to my four year old. In the hour or so I read to him she finished a 350 page novel. I can't keep up with that kind of volume. So do you know of any helps for a super geeky, math loving Mom to help her not so geeky history and literature loving daughter? Especially someone or something or someway for her to talk about the books. Please!!! Jenne in CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnieB Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Are you a part of a homeschool support group? Since most parents are in need of help when it comes to the higher math, and YOU have those skills, I'd most definitely say look into finding a few families that need YOUR skills and trade them for their help in History/Lit. You tutor their kid, they tutor yours. Obviously, you'll want to find curriculums that are more child-led than teacher required, then your families meet once a week (or whatever) to review things with the children. Each teacher be available by phone when there are questions, but otherwise it's more oversight than day to day teaching. It sounds like your daughter is more than capable of working on things by herself, so she should be able to handle only having "supervision" or "oversight" instead of hand holding and spoon feeding, lol. And I'm with you....although I do love history and reading, I don't do well with the analyzing of it all. I just accept history as stories and love them, and like to reading even non-fiction, but I get all queasy when some study guides wants me to analyze the characters and their motives and what they really mean. Ummm, why can't the author tell me what the characters mean? Give me math with it's "only one correct answer" and I am in heaven. My DH says that when it comes to "black and white" I have no clue that there could even possibly BE any shades of gray. Which of course, leads me to say to him....but you said "black and white" you never mentioned gray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted February 22, 2009 Author Share Posted February 22, 2009 The homeschool group that I have found is great about tolerating widely varying views on religion or lack of religion, but they are serious unschoolers. I haven't found a group that is both secular and interested in schooling. I will try again. Do you know of anything online? I understand that I may need to pay for help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConnieB Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) Where in the Bay Area are you? Funny....you say you were in Arizona and now you're in California.....I was in California (Fremont) and now I'm in Phoenix, lol. It's been a couple years but I know there were several very active support groups....one in Castro Valley that was something like Bay Hills was a large group. I also looked online and found this list of support groups, but gosh, none of them look familiar, so maybe it's been longer than I thought, lol. But check this and see if there is anything near you that might be more to your style. http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/regional/CaliforniaBayArea.htm Several of them have yahoogroups.....so even if they are too far for you to drive to for most get-togethers, but sound like your style, join the yahoogroup and see if there isn't someone that might want to swap skills and maybe each of you can drive to a middle ground to meet weekly. The Bay Area has SOOOO many great parks and a fantastic library system so there would always be places for you to meet. Or maybe you don't even really have to meet, you could do things by phone and with the computer most weeks. It's really going to depend on all the kids and how much hand holding any of them need, vs just talking them through any bumps. I don't know anything about this company, except that he advertises on several support groups that I'm on....and several of the folks on there rave about it but you might want to check it out: http://www.historyatourhouse.com/main/index.html Edited February 22, 2009 by ConnieB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 You need to get a guide like Artners (is that the one Memoria Press sells?) or TQ (skip the commentary) or the VP cards and use them as a spine to fill books into. Or get a solid spine (Hakim, for instance) and proceed forward, filling in books for each topic. Have her keep a log of what she reads for history, map and timeline once a week, and write 2-3 short papers on her reading each week. You don't have to teach history, just provide a structure where she can see what to read about next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I've got a soon to be 5th grader and am :lurk5: for suggestions. I love to read. I hate looking deeper than the story. I'm not good at it, and will need a lot of help also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Yup, about the only subject I really enjoy is math. I'm with you when it comes to symbolism and hidden meanings. Give me clear and concise. I am hoping to use History at our House next year. It's secular. I can't really give you a review, but I have heard that the teacher is passionate and makes history interesting. I find the website difficult to navigate, but Mr. Powell has been great about email correspondence. He does a 3 year rotation (ancient civilizations, European History, and American History). I have only recently started exploring outsourcing literature. We are using Lightning Lit for 7th, mostly likely will use it for 8th, and, if we are still homeschooling for 9th, we'll probably use Literary Lessons for Lord of the Rings. Since LOTR is my favorite book of all time, ds may not want to do it (:tongue_smilie:), so I've started exploring secular outsourced options. I don't think I've found anything yet, but you might want to take a look at the Potter's School. I don't think it is secular, but it might be acceptable. Here in FL, we have Florida Virtual School, which is free and secular. However, I am not convinced of the quality of it. But, AZ may have something similar. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Below are some literature programs a student can do virtually independently of the parent. These are non-religious: - Lightning Literature & Composition 7 (full year 7th grade program, but a strong 6th grade reader could do this one) general info: http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp'>http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp'>http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp'>http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp sample lesson: http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/pdfs/3249s%20Chp%201.pdf - Lightning Literature & Composition 8 (full year 8th grade program, but a strong 7th grade reader could do this one) general info: http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/book/blight.asp sample lesson: http://www.hewitthomeschooling.com/pdfs/3285s%20chp%201.pdf - Literary Lessons From The Lord of the Rings (full year program, geared for a student in 7th-12th grade; if being done completely solo by the student, then I'd say grade 7 at the youngest, if a strong reader) Home Scholar home page: http://www.homescholar.org/ About the Program: http://www.homescholar.org/LOTR%20Curr.htm Table of Contents: http://www.homescholar.org/Table%20of%20Contents.htm Sample Lesson: http://www.homescholar.org/Samples.htm For history, how about just letting her read a grade-appropriate history textbook and some historical fiction which matches that time period Secular Textbooks: - McMillian publishers 5th grade social studies = http://www.macmillanmh.com/socialstudies/2003-5/student/level1.php?isbn=0021492670 - McGraw Hill publishers 5th grade social studies = http://www.mhschool.com/socialstudies/2003-5/student/MEpickbook.html - Harcourt publishers 5th grade social studies = http://www.harcourtschool.com/hss/05/index.html - Pearson/Core Knowledge 5th grade history/geography = http://www.coreknowledge.org/bookstore/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=15&products_id=26 Or, what about an online history and/or literature class (usually have to be at least 6th grade) such as Potter's School? (http://www.pottersschool.org/) BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) They have had announcements of a Coyote Grange group there that meets on Tuesdays. I believe that they have a literature group for that age. It is very reasonably priced, but it is a parent coop so you have to attend the whole time. OTOH, it does incorporate all kids up to high school age, so you can bring your littles. The organizer, M. P., has a pretty young baby, and is doing a great job of incorporating all the ages. My DD is 12, and so she would be in a different age group than yours. I did check out the Grange, but it conflicted with a Nature Awareness class that she is taking every Tuesday. So I don't know exactly what they cover for the youngers, but I know that they had projected a literature class. If your DD is doing AAH, I'm really impressed. That's pretty advanced for a 10YO, IMO. So I think you're fine there, assuming that she is really learning the material. Are you using the workbook? Do you have a timeline? Is she reading and maybe summarizing the supplemental reading for each chapter? If so, she is probably just fine. I would say that she might benefit from interspersing this with Kingfisher to get some world context. For literature, whether or not the Grange works out, I would recommend using "Figuratively Speaking" to teach literary elements, and encouraging her to do book reports. A good source of a guide for book reports is the two books by Rafe Esquith about teaching 5th grade. He covers how he introduces literary elements in simple but very implementable ways, and gives a pretty good sample book report. Great model to follow at age 10, I would say. I would encourage you to take your DD to Shakespeare and other plays when you have a chance. Shakespeare Santa Cruz is very good, and you might look at subscribing for the summer, and then watching to see what plays they are going to do and then studying them in advance of seeing them if possible. Youth Shakespeare in San Jose is about to present "The Tempest" in its entirety in March. That would be an excellent production to attend. They play it totally straight, and don't cut anything. The actors are mostly homeschoolers, and they are really, really good. Last year I ran a literature group for 5-7th graders, but I'm not doing that this year. However, if I start one again next year I will announce it on the forums and maybe your DD would like to join us. I do this in Santa Clara. As for curricula, LLLOTR is Christian friendly but not really Christian. I think that it would be a very good introduction to literary analysis for your DD. But you have to gauge whether doing this would ruin LOTR or enhance it for her. That's a very individual thing, and I would try the Esquith stuff and FS before purchasing LLLOTR to try to figure this out. It would be tragic, IMO, to ruin LOTR for anyone! Edited February 23, 2009 by Carol in Cal. privacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 You should definitely check out the LEAD center in Los Gatos. They follow the TJ Ed philosophy, and have both a 3 day school and homeschooling enrichment classes. The director is Mormon, but it is not a Mormon school. I have a friend who loves that place for her son, and I have specifically asked her how secular it is, and she was pretty comfortable with it. I think that they are just starting the Spring semester classes, so you might find something that is a good fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thank you for the ideas. I will look at the links. I am on the BAHFT list. (We went to Negative Tide Day a few weeks ago and I found out about it from there.) I will look into the Grange programs some more. My daughter has a recorder class on Tuesday afternoons so a class would have to avoid that. She really is doing AAH. She reads and takes notes on each chapter. Then does the work sheets. And finally the chapter tests. She does read whatever books I get out of the library on the subject. Henry Hudson was a few weeks ago. I will look into the books by Esquith and Figuratively Speaking. I just put them on my amazon list. I will see if they are at the library next time I am there. I still don't understand the point of a book report. What is it supposed to do? I know she read the book. I have looked at LLOTR but she read that series a long time ago. And has reread it many many times since. I am not sure she would want to spend an entire year on that series of books. (She is a very unusual child. She read Harry Potter at 3 almost 4. She read LOTR at 5. She really really loves books. Especially fantasy books. There really isn't a book she would ever turn down.) We are in Santa Clara near Valley Fair Mall. I will check into the LEAD Center in Los Gatos. That shouldn't be too far. I am amazed at the variety of resources that this group can come up with. If anyone has more ideas I would love to see them too! I wish it wasn't going to rain tomorrow so I could meet up with my home school group and see if they had more ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAberlin Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is History Odyssey by Pandia press that is secular. I think Level 2 and 3 can be done independently. There is Trisms that allows you to go as indepth as you would like. I think she would get a lot out of it because she could read so many books on a different topics with it. I don't know how independent it is though. You would have to ask on the yahoo group. http://www.pandiapress.com/ http://trisms.com/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I will look into the books by Esquith and Figuratively Speaking. I just put them on my amazon list. I will see if they are at the library next time I am there. I still don't understand the point of a book report. What is it supposed to do? I know she read the book. I have looked at LLOTR but she read that series a long time ago. And has reread it many many times since. I am not sure she would want to spend an entire year on that series of books. (She is a very unusual child. She read Harry Potter at 3 almost 4. She read LOTR at 5. She really really loves books. Especially fantasy books. There really isn't a book she would ever turn down.) We are in Santa Clara near Valley Fair Mall. I will check into the LEAD Center in Los Gatos. That shouldn't be too far. I wish it wasn't going to rain tomorrow so I could meet up with my home school group and see if they had more ideas. There are a lot of Charlotte Mason homeschoolers as well as unschoolers in South Bay Free Scholars. All Ways Learning is pretty eclectic. Are you interested in choral music? You might want to check out the Vivace Youth Chorus of San Jose--it's the best around, IMO. They meet at the Stone Church in Willow Glen but are secular. They accept new students each semester, so it may still be early enough to get her in if you are interested, if you hurry. If you want to look at LLLOTR, PM me. I have it, and I'm not that far away. There is a lot more to it than just studying the books, and I think that familiar titles are good to use for early literary studies. However, it is certainly a long curriculum. The reason I mentioned book reports is that the type of report that Esquith suggests includes more literary analysis than typical book reports do. So I thought that it might be a good vehicle for her to start thinking about literary elements and writing about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 We have been going to Park Hoppers. It is a weekly park day group. http://www.parkhoppers.org/index.htm AWL has a park day on Fridays, but there doesn't seem to be anyone at them. I can't figure that one out. We went to a couple at Almaden Lake Park but it was empty. We did check out the Chorus and even met with one of the directors. She listened to my son sing and said that he would be in the Wednesday group. Michael knew more solfege and choral stuff than most new kids. We have a Wednesday conflict so we didn't end up doing the chorus. My daughter isn't very interested in singing. She figures that it is Michael's thing and lets him do that. I will think some more about the LOTR stuff. We probably wouldn't want to start it until she finishes with the Wordsmith. I agree about using familiar books to study, though. I guess we will just wait and see. Thank you for all the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 An option is to let her continue reading for enjoyment and save the "picking the story apart" for when she is older. Just a thought. Another option is to get Teaching the Classics for yourself. History I'm not sure about. We're not doing so hot in that area ourselves. Maybe some historical fiction along with a timeline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I like math and science and have a biology and engineering degree. I'm not a big fan of history as it is normally taught, but I read some books that addressed history from a big picture, analytical perspective, looking at history as a system and from a different viewpoint. Now, I'm looking forward to teaching history and seeing what other connections I can make. You may enjoy some of these books: Albion's Seed: four British folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer. Looks at 4 different waves of immigration into America and how their culture and beliefs shaped their region and shape America even now. Thomas Sowell's Culture books: Race and Culture, Migrations and Culture, and Conquests and Cultures. Very interesting, he has a lot of stats to back up his thoughts. He approaches it from a very rational, logical basis and has done a lot of research, his books are heavily footnoted. Seeds of Change by Henry Hobhouse. "This book, devoted to quinine, sugar, tea, cotton, and the potato, is not just about plants but about history. It shows how certain plants influenced the course of human affairs, often negatively. Quinine, for instance, cures malaria, but that quality allowed temperate-climate peoples to exploit tropical areas. The development of cheap sugar is linked with slavery, and tea with opium. Seeds of Change is fascinating and well researched." Generations by Strauss & Howe. Looks at Generational cycles, very interesting. I re-read it post 9/11 and found they had predicted a 9/11 type scenario and several responses depending on the generation in power when the attack occurred. (The book was written in 1991.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenneinCA Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks. My library has those books too! I will get them and one of us will hopefully read them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 We have been going to Park Hoppers. It is a weekly park day group.http://www.parkhoppers.org/index.htm AWL has a park day on Fridays, but there doesn't seem to be anyone at them. I can't figure that one out. We went to a couple at Almaden Lake Park but it was empty. I had heard a rumor that more people than ever were coming to the Friday park day--and they used to have quite a few on Thursdays. I guess that that has dropped off now. I have never really done any park days, so I don't know for sure. If you are interested in AWL, one of the most popular things that they do is the Monday Sports and Games Days. We drop in on that occasionally, and there are usually at least 15-30 kids there. I have heard good things about Park Hoppers but don't know much about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.