4 yo who demands workbooks/structured learning... wwyd?

[Mama2Three]

My bright and energetic 4 3/4 yo DD loves to be at the table when her older brother does his "home" work in the morning before ps. Lately, she has been flying through her workbooks -- independently doing neat, accurate work. She started Explode the Code 3 in January and will finish it in about 2 weeks. I've been trying to slow her down because DS is "still" wrapping up ETC 4 and I'd rather that they not be on the same book, for his benefit. Same speed with Singapore Earlybird 1b, I just gave it to her and she'll end up doing the entire book in about 3 weeks total. I planned to start 2a/b in the fall for kindergarten, but will probably let her have them early. A couple days ago, I asked her if she would rather spend less time with her schoolwork, and she said, "Why wouldn't I want to do my workbooks, I love school!"

 

I don't really believe in workbooks for the younger children, but she is so focused and clearly enjoys them that I don't want to say no to her. It's my understanding that children need concrete materials to learn until age 7, but that doesn't seem to hold true for her. Is it possible that she understands abstract ideas at this young age, or am I short-changing her? We have math manipulatives available (abacus, counting bears, linking cubes, etc), but she normally doesn't want to use them. She has learned to play chess and can hold her own with her brother.

 

Is this workbook fixation a problem? Should I be concerned that she might burn out on them, and then not want to do them when she's in 1st grade (or whenever it's more necessary)? Or should I just let her go until she hits her own ceiling? She is in a play-based, co-op preschool 4 mornings a week, and we also have started FIAR in the afternoons, which she enjoys, so she does have variety in her day. Part of me is worried that she's getting more tablework than she should, and part of me is concerned that I'm not giving her as much "learning" as she wants. :confused:

[VanessaS]

Umm... I hate to tell you this, but she's obviously a freakin genius. :smilielol5: A 4yo who plays chess? :blink:

If she has proven that she can think abstractly, then she can. Someone who can play chess can think abstractly.

 

A couple days ago, I asked her if she would rather spend less time with her schoolwork, and she said, "Why wouldn't I want to do my workbooks, I love school!"

Doesn't sound like her brain is melting from the drudgery. Besides, who cares if she gets burnt out from workbooks? There's plenty of educational life after workbooks. Besides, she probably didn't skip over the concrete stage, it was just so early and short that you didn't notice.

[KAR120C]

I wouldn't try to slow her down (it probably won't work anyway...) but you could switch her to a different program if you think sibling competition is going to be a problem. And if she's happy using workbooks I wouldn't worry about burnout... but interest now doesn't always translate into interest later, and you might want a backup plan in case workbooks aren't her preferred approach when she is older. DS peaked in his workbook fascination around 3. He was fine with them later, but not as obsessed as he had been. At three I think he would have done anything that came in workbook form just because it was there, but at 5 and 6 it was more about the subject matter and less about the format.

It's my understanding that children need concrete materials to learn until age 7, but that doesn't seem to hold true for her. Is it possible that she understands abstract ideas at this young age, or am I short-changing her? We have math manipulatives available (abacus, counting bears, linking cubes, etc), but she normally doesn't want to use them. She has learned to play chess and can hold her own with her brother.

Generally kids do need concrete materials at earlier ages, but like all generalizations, it won't apply evenly to all children. If you were planning lessons for a group of unknown four year olds then I'd say definitely plan on using manipulatives and whatnot, but if you have one four year old who has already demonstrated a good grasp of abstract ideas, then I think she's making it clear that she's not going to fit the generalization! :)

 

We had every manipulative under the sun (family motto: anything worth doing is worth overdoing... LOL) and the only one DS really gravitated to was the abacus. The bears were used in all kinds of pretend play, but never for working out math problems. They really are pretty straightforward, and if you already understand how simple addition and subtraction work, there isn't much more to be gained from counting it out. The abacus (especially a Japanese abacus, IMO) has more subtlety and elegance, and I think that's why it lasted here. You can play with place value, and combinations of equalities and reversal of operations (like +9 = +10 -1 or -9 = -10 +1) and useful relationships with ten and five... The bears just count, but the abacus does stuff. :)

[Mama2Three]

Thanks for the responses. Good to hear the hive consensus says it's ok to let her plug away. I think DD would be bummed if I tried much harder to scale her back, she is very proud of her accomplishments. I wouldn't mind hearing others' thoughts, but I suspect we'll continue on as we have been. :)

[Pamela H in Texas]

For my daughter, I let her have the workbooks. I *did* set a time *I* would do schooling with her though. I was NOT willing to do schoolishness all day or whenever she demanded. So we decided "before X o'clock" and then she was allowed to do it any other time independently (she did A LOT during quiet time), but *I* wouldn't mess with it til the next day "before X o'clock."

 

As for catching up with big brother? First, I wouldn't worry about it at all. ALL children need to learn that there are people that find X easier or tougher. My stepdaughter is 2 months older than my daughter but when I hs'd them all, my dd was 4-6 years ahead of my stepdaughter (who was just a little accelerated). NEVER was it the SLIGHTEST issue. And I would have nipped it in the bud had it been.

 

Another option would be to have them in different materials so it's not so obvious. However, kids are pretty darn smart. They know "I just did that 2 months ago" or "I haven't done that yet." Of coure, then you can use the excuse that different materials use different timetables for teaching XYZ. But generally, it won't work long term.

 

Anyway, so I'd just give her whatever she wanted, limited if you need to and encourage your kids to be happy about their own strengths and those of their siblings :)

[Storm Bay]

Workbooks in and of themselves don't cause brain stagnation. Improper use of workbooks can. I agree that you ought to let her do them as long as she's having fun with them

[chai]

My dd adored workbooks at that age too! I, also, was concerned because the "rule" is not to use them. But, I gave her what she wanted and she sped through them. My dd, now 10, still loves getting worksheets and workbooks. I think that she gets a strong sense of accomplishment from finishing the pages. (Well, actually, she doesn't love math, but it wouldn't matter what method I used. :tongue_smilie:)

[AuntieM]

is just like your daughter. She has begun demanding workbooks, and she LOVES them. She only does about 20 minutes worth per day and it is giving her a sense of accomplishment. Also, she is reading and writing on her own now anyway, no way I could stop her if I tried. So, IMO, I might as well be giving her something that reinforces the correct way to form letters, etc!

 

If your dd wants to do school, provide her opportunites to be creative from scratch... like notebooking, provide paper, safe scissors, glue stick, stickers, etc, see what she creates on her own. My dd loves stencils and water color paints, she can work with these for a long time!

 

How does your dd do with puzzles? All of my kids love puzzles, but my two early/accelerated learners really loved the challenge of puzzles more difficult than their age implied. Just a thought to help fill the time she wants to do school! As for chess, each of mine also learned at 4, we started teaching them with just 4 pieces in play (knight, rook, bishop, king) and added other pieces one at a time after they got used to how the first ones moved. Maybe you could keep a running chess game going, with some kind of marker to move back and forth after each player takes a turn? That would give her time to think about strategy (whether she realizes it or not) and you wouldn't have to sit down for a full 30 minutes to complete the game... just a thought.

 

Anyway, kind of off the track of your original workbook question, but if you need ideas to occupy her time, HTH. With these two kids I have always felt like I was on a railroad track with a locomotive in hot pursuit - it's hard to stay a step ahead!

[joannqn]

I agree with just let her do what she wants.

 

I have a workbook-loving son. He's 7 now and shows no sign of wanting them any less. In fact, I switched to a non-workbook spelling program this year and it was a big mistake. He went from feeling smart to feeling like a failure even though he would have been earning As had I graded him. So, we went back to a spelling workbook.

 

He's already requested that I add another workbook to his day for next year. He wants geography in a workbook form added to his home school plate.

[purplecow7]

I would let her direct her own pace. However you might want to introduce her to some education games. If she likes chess she may like Blokus and Rush Hour Jr. (mine love this one), or Quirkly. My 4 year old likes chess too and she likes Rush Hour Jr. You might want to think about piano lessons for her or violin. Mine all started at 4/5 on the piano. I put colored dots on the piano and colored dots in the early books and then taught them the right finger to put on the right key. (I don't play the piano) My oldest switched to violin in third and my second grader is now taking piano from a professional low key teacher. My twins are just playing with the dots. And love it. You can do this with a key board too (I bought one for $100). Also there are some great computer games on line, funbrain and starfall. There are also some great educational videos - like Ed Nile the science guy - these can be matched up with the Magic School House books, also the magic school house videos are good too. And don't forget school House Rock - mine love these. I also love the public library for videos on things as well as netflix. My youngest loves pirates we did a whole unit over Thanksgiving when their cousins came, complete with customes, treasure hunt, map making (map skills), pirate movies (blackbeard ghost - old disney movie) and workbook pages and coloring books about pirates. I also went to the library and had lots of pirate history books for everyone to read. I also did similiar with the ancients. We listen to spanish songs at dinner or sometimes the classics - WTM has some great resources for this.

 

I am not saying to stop the workbooks, as I have two that can't get enough of them. But I find mixing up the learning media has helped me. feel less like a pushy parent - my issue,

 

I have two that love workbooks and two that don't. The dollar store is a great place to find them as they go through them so fast. Oh and I stopped talking to my neighbors about what my kids were doing, because they thought I was being a pushy parent with the afterschooling. The could not understand that my kids wanted to do this.

 

We also do a lot of art, water color is my favorite. Again we watched a video from the library on how to paint and then we pulled out paper and made these really cool flowers using water color and markers.

 

Sorry so long, but I too have children who need more and more. It does not stop it just changes. Good luck.

[Mama2Three]

I would let her direct her own pace. However you might want to introduce her to some education games. If she likes chess she may like Blokus and Rush Hour Jr. (mine love this one), or Quirkly. My 4 year old likes chess too and she likes Rush Hour Jr. You might want to think about piano lessons for her or violin. Mine all started at 4/5 on the piano. I put colored dots on the piano and colored dots in the early books and then taught them the right finger to put on the right key. (I don't play the piano) My oldest switched to violin in third and my second grader is now taking piano from a professional low key teacher. My twins are just playing with the dots. And love it. You can do this with a key board too (I bought one for $100). Also there are some great computer games on line, funbrain and starfall. There are also some great educational videos - like Ed Nile the science guy - these can be matched up with the Magic School House books, also the magic school house videos are good too. And don't forget school House Rock - mine love these. I also love the public library for videos on things as well as netflix. My youngest loves pirates we did a whole unit over Thanksgiving when their cousins came, complete with customes, treasure hunt, map making (map skills), pirate movies (blackbeard ghost - old disney movie) and workbook pages and coloring books about pirates. I also went to the library and had lots of pirate history books for everyone to read. I also did similiar with the ancients. We listen to spanish songs at dinner or sometimes the classics - WTM has some great resources for this.

 

We also do a lot of art, water color is my favorite. Again we watched a video from the library on how to paint and then we pulled out paper and made these really cool flowers using water color and markers.

 

 

 

This gives me some more ideas. I hadn't thought about introducing an instrument, I think that's something that she'd really enjoy. I'm not at all musically inclined -- we listen to the Classical Kids cds, that's about it. So my natural inclination doesn't take me there. We do play lots of games -- blockus and parcheesi are favorites in addition to chess -- but I think she still needs more. We took this week off from our "before schooling" because of Valentine's Day (DC still insist on homemade valentines, so LOTS of time with scissors, glue, stickers, construction paper, doilies, etc) and my son's 100th day of ps project. But today, DD spent over an hour copying sentences from one of her books and drawing pictures to illustrate the sentences. She seeks out "work" even if I don't do anything, but she really thrives on extra structure -- guided learning, if you will -- so I'm trying to come up with some more for her.

 

Sorry to ramble on. I just feel like I can come here and release without sounding like I'm bragging. Thanks again to everyone for your support and ideas.

[purplecow7]

You don't sound like your bragging to me. Maybe because I have been there done that and why I love boards, because then I know my kids are not the only ones doing what they do.

 

I buy workbooks, word searchers and crossword puzzle books at the dollar store along with coloring books and just leave them in drawer the kids can always get too. They like to play school.

[cougarmom4]

When my ds6 first started his love of math, he would make worksheets for me to do--he loved it! And then he'd correct them. Kind of a different way to keep his mind busy, but he felt so grown up writing out math problems (and so proud that he knew the answers).

[mom31257]

You've got to do what you and your child are comfortable with, in my opinion. My ds has been a workbook lover too. He started asking to do school at 2 because he knew ds was. I started out with lots of hands-on stuff and he was bored to death. I picked up a couple of workbooks at the grocery store and...bam! He took off. I did HWT Get Ready for School while he was 3. I did A Beka K4 Phonics and BJU K Math while he was 4. He's now in K and doing 1st grade math/ Horizons K Reading. He loves to play any kind of game and would play them all day.

 

I am a very mathematical person (like ds) and I thrived in school because I liked school work. I still enjoy seemingly tedious tasks. I am trying to expose him to other styles of learning but not forcing the issue. I'm doing this primarily through history and science. I'm utilizing lapbooks for science and social studies topics, as well as just reading through great books from the library. He's participated in history and science activities with dd as well.

[SnowWhite]

I agree, let her do what she loves. Maybe CLE Learning to Read? That way it wouldn't be the same ETC 3 her brother is finishing.

[FlockOfSillies]

My dd adored workbooks at that age too! I, also, was concerned because the "rule" is not to use them.

 

Is this "rule" in WTM somewhere, or is it in the homeschooling manual I never read? :confused: Workbooks are my friends!

[Storm Bay]

Is this "rule" in WTM somewhere, or is it in the homeschooling manual I never read? :confused: Workbooks are my friends!

 

It's not a rule, but it's not "pure" classical homeschooling. Some people feel they are limiting. I think if that's all that's used that it can be--just fill in the blanks type work. But I find that the Singapore Math Workbooks are a good help in our math program, although they're not just fill in the blanks. Some people loathe and avoid workbooks like the plague, and some dc eschew them as well. But if they're accompanied by rich discussions, etc, they can be fine. However, there are some workbooks I've seen that I personally think are terrible;)

 

My dc like workbooks, and I find that they can be very helpful when well done and used with other things (such as the SM ones). Or in a situation where a dc loathes a subject and you just need to get it done and are choosing your battles (those of us with challenging dc need to do that a lot!). So my 13 yo does a workbook with her American history program as opposed to doing her own written projects extensively. She's not getting a top history exposure, but we're so busy getting a fabulous math program done and working on science, her passion, that we have to let go somewhere (she's in gr 8). She doesn't read all the great books she "should" at this point. But she is satifying the legal requirement of getting American history in. This is a compromise in the quality of her classical education, but one that is best for this dd at this point. But her math logic and theory is far better than what she'd be getting in most ps.

[The Governess]

I don't think there's a problem with it, but then my dd sounds a lot like yours, she loves workbooks and table work. No chess yet, though. :001_smile: I'm enjoying reading through all of the suggestions here!

[tamcnghton]

My now 13 yr old Dd was like that too. She loved preschool books at age 2 and would make me help her do the mazes and hold a popcycle stick so she could make straight lines for the dot to dots. She would do it for hours if i let her. Once she did a 300 pg Big Preschool book in a few days She could do 100 pc puzzles by age 3 as long as you helped her find the four corner pieces. Her little sister couldn't even do an 8 pc puzzle by age 5. Her little ADHD sister is totally opposite ..night and day!

 

The obsession does subside a little...but to this day if she doesn't do work on paper she feels she learned nothing. We would go to Science classes and learn so much but she felt it was not that educational (that was when she was under 4th grade) She is still that way to this day.

 

So...funny thing is both girls were tested and had the exact same IQ. The 13 yr old is visual the 11 yr old is oral/everything but also dyslexic and ADHD. The eleven year had a rough start but has totally caught up. What is the difference ? Is the 13 yr old a genius ?....NO....but she has an amazing attention span.

 

Funny thing happened. We did montesorri and Miquon early on and supplemented with Bryan House books to learn the facts ( we loved those books especially the dot to dot answers so they could check their work on their own). Then we switched to Singapore. This might be a good idea for you to put her in Miquon with cuisinaire rods and the number track (if you can find it.) This is why I recommend both. They are similar in the way they teach. You can teach one and then the other as a repeat to slow them down and they won't really catch that you are doing that. My Dd could do a lot but...let me explain with a story. In second grade she could multiply triple digit numbers together. It is so hard to keep the lines all staight when multiplying and then hopefully add the right numbers together for the answer. She could do maybe 4 problems a day. This was much slower than 2 or more pages a day she used to could do. But that was what she could do and she was happy with it since the Bryan House book said for grades 3-5 and she was only in 2nd. Well...we took a break for the summer. In the fall she couldn't remember how to do it and didn't remember doing the book. So we did it again but this time she could do a page or 2 per day. After we got the skill down we went back to Miquon and or Singapore. She is now in 7th doing Algebra and it is easy for her. I could push her to go faster but she doesn't ask that anymore. This is the natural progression of my super attentive Dd.

 

Also...if i put her in an art class and the teacher told her to just draw something random she would do it and then tell me after class that was stupid. Give her a guided art class and she will win an award in an art contest. She NEEDS stucture. She still gets bored. I hate that. That is the one thing I wish I could have changed...was for her to be less dependent on me to find her something to do. Her sister on the other hand...never gets bored...can make something out of garbage...point is they are all different....they have their own pace....it all works out in the end. "Miss bored" and her sister "Tigger" swims competively year round ...that took care of a great deal of I'm bored. :D

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm just adding agreement too... I started Sylvia on EB 1A and ETC 1 so she would have "school work" to do, feel a part of things, and have a sense of accomplishment. I'd stopped with her one day and she went on and did two more pages independently. 4 year olds know when they want to stop something! ;) I'm not concerned about her pace or what she "knows," I'm accomodating her. Really, at this age, I'm just trying to keep her happy while I try to keep up with Becca. :001_huh:

[skaterbabs]

My DD also LOVES workbooks and such, so as I purchase her first formal curricula for the fall I try to keep that in mind. We actually keep a few workbooks lying around for her to do as pure playtime just because she likes them. :lol: