16yod will not get up on time? Has anyone won this battle? How?

[74Heaven]

Pls give me advice, tips, etc.

 

I just broke my wrist so I am only at about 70% efficiency and we have been fighting this battle off and on. This week, she slept in by getting up and staggering over and turning off her alarm *every* school day. (Most weeks it is 2-3 days a week.)

 

She never sleeps in on ski day or early morning fun activities. She has 2 alarms and often even with reminders, she forgets to set both. They are across the room from her. So there is no hitting the snooze from bed.

 

She is active and tired (630a wake up; 730a school start) And she must get up and get going because of 5p dinner followed by 6-9p either AWANA or swimming every night - so most school work must be done by dinnertime.

 

LMK your sugg. Believe it or not, I refuse to be her alarm clock on a daily basis. I will however, assist her anytime it is not a habit. I alos have 3 youngers to get thru the morning routine and getting my oldest out of bed is *not* something I will do. BTW, she has anaenforced 10p lights out rule - I rarely catch her reading (and she is retruning about 9p from swimming) so I don't think she is staying up til all hours of the night.

 

She has spurts of improvement but lately is on downward spiral of 2-3 days a week of failure. Oh there is also the lying about it when I ask problem. (I am only up at same time about 50% of the time.)

 

Love Lisa

***

[TxMama]

I don't think it is a battle worth fighting.

 

I'd let her sleep in or wake up whenever she wants. If the schoolwork that needs to be done by dinnertime is not done then she can't go to swimming or awana. I'm assuming that those activities are important to her and she'll be willing to put in the effort to have her schoolwork complete.

 

My late sleeper only had to miss a favorite activity 2x before he was able to find a workable solution to his schoolwork/ sleeping in problem.

 

I find it quite funny that he has spent the last 6 months waking at 4:00am to be at work on time!:lol:

 

 

JMHO

[Janice in NJ]

We had a period of a couple of weeks here where folks who were not up and dressed with chores done by 7:40 received an alternate breakfast - salad. :001_smile: (We start school at 8:00 am, and I was doing too much prodding.)

 

No one here likes salad so it worked for us. My original thought of "no breakfast" was met with whines. "How will we ever survive until snack at 10:45; we'll be so hungry we won't be able to work."

 

"No problem. You can have a nice fresh salad. That will hold you over. I suggest that you get up on time."

 

If she's pushing your buttons - find a way to push hers. Be creative! :001_smile: And then you just police the plan; no prodding; no begging. Just hand out the tickets. She's in charge of her success; not you. Can't you just see me yelling up the stairs at 7:41 am, "You better hustle up if you want to eat something. The lettuce needs to be washed and we start a 8:00 am."

 

Sleepy-eyed children spinning and rinsing and spinning and rinsing. All the while trying to figure out how they managed to get into this mess - convinced that their mother is a wacko!

 

Isn't life grand? :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

[Karen in CO]

It is one of those things that is self correcting. If she isn't up in time to get her work done, she doesn't go to her later activities. And that work should include helping with the youngers while you are broken. Don't police her bedtime or her get up time, let her learn to do it. In two years (more or less) she will be solely responsible for it. AND further, she can get up on ski days which proves that she gets up as late as you allow her to.

 

Be creative. Find a plan that is simple to enforce and as self-correcting as possible. Don't let her lean on you for it or push your buttons. She is making the choices and she should suffer, not you.

[Oakblossoms]

Has she had any hormonal changes at all?

 

At 16, I had to get up by that time to be ready for public school. It was really hard on me. I always needed more sleep than that and I still do.

 

But, when I had to get up at 5:30 for the University at age 30, so I could get home in time to homeschool my boys...I did do it. Getting up occasionally for a ski trip is fun.

 

Let her miss the fun stuff if she can't get up. But, is there a way to let her sleep a bit later and still get her work done. What does she think about doing some of her school work on Saturdays? Perhaps she could reschedule her week, so she can get up around 8 or 8:30.

[Kelli in TN]

I hate to say it, but we did not win this battle with my current high schooler until she started taking college classes for dual credit. And she had to be late for class a few times before it really sank in!

 

I think teens need more sleep than we realize. So there is this constant tug of war between their need for more sleep and the need for them to learn to discipline their bodies to cope with the demands of life.

 

She'll get there. She is still in training mode!

[Storm Bay]

She needs her sleep at this age, and 8 hours isn't enough for most teens this age. Sure, she may be excited enough to get up early for fun things, but at 16 her brain is going through some big physiological changes. Plus, she may not be done with puberty yet (it goes past menarchy, and usually goes until about 16--if you google "Tanner stages" you can find out more.) I'd put in a link, but the site does mention private parts and I don't want to put something like that here.

 

My dd is still 13, but is in that boat. She swims until 9 pm and doesn't get to bed before 10. There is no way she can be up and perky only 8 hours later on a day to day basis. Not to mention the fact that the internal clocks of teens are set differently for some reason.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Karin

[Moni]

We prioritize adequate and restful sleep and good nutrition.

So I wouldn't penalize with lack of either, because without enough sleep or food, what kind of student is she going to be that day anyay :001_huh:

 

Whose priority are the evening activities?

Yours? Hers?

 

I'd make sure she has a lights-out-be-silent-on-bed-feet-up-head-down enforced bedtime, and then at least 10 or more dark quiet hours for sleep.

 

And then I'd keep the nutritious snacks and water appearing every couple hours before her as she attempts her studies during the day.

 

And then I'd prioritize the academics and activities, monitoring sleep, nutrition, emotional health, social health, physical health, need for physical exertion and activities, socializing and some "down time"

 

(....and 10:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. would be the minimum window for quiet sleeping in the dark.... toss a brown blanket over her window at bedtime...and keep the littles and hollaring to a low simmer first 90 minutes of their day...)

 

 

:seeya:

Edited January 31, 2009 by Moni
My Usual Typos !

[74Heaven]

we really needed the reminders to let dtr "own" her problem with getting up.

 

We have the same struggles as everyone in terms of dtr's evening activities being part of her well-rounded "homeschool & social education" as well as (at the same time) being somewhat optional (and the swimming is expensive as well!).

 

All her extras are "her" interests and commitment and not mom's. However, she is not motivated (academically) by losing privledges usually so there is a struggle to make her pay attention without being overwhelmed by the to-dos.

 

However, thanks to the advice, I am steeling myself to drop fewer hints, and let her stay home when things don't get finished by leave-the-house time. I really "know" this is best, but my mothering "instinct" kicks in and I end up with more reminders and nagging and occasional mother temper tantrums.

 

so thanks, we are pressing on to let dtr own - and if she so chooses - correct the fact that sleeping in is making her miss the things she vallues.

 

We went over the groundrules so to speak - and I am walking around muttering to myself not to give reminders, "rules" speeches, hints, etc.

 

lisaj, practicing on my oldest

[LaJuana]

...showing two things. First, teenagers need a lot more sleep than many people think, with 9 to 10 hours being normal. I have observed this with all of my children. My children manage to accomplish more in less time if they have adequate sleep.

 

Second, the natural wake/sleep cycle of teenagers tends to be later than that of younger children. There are some things that can be done to facilitate an earlier bedtime--dim the lights, turn off the computer and the cell phone, and turn down the noise level in the home earlier in the evening.

 

You might be interested in reading some of the research yourself. Just 'google' teenagers and sleep, and you'll find lots of websites reporting the research.

 

Ultimately, I think you are wise to bite your tongue and allow your dd to manage her own schedule. The natural consequence of not being able to participate in leisure activities until all school work is done seems like the best way to allow teens to experience the kind of consequence that will plague them in college or in employment. If swimming and Awana are part of the school schedule, I would turn off computers, radios, ipods, and other activities of pure leisure until all work is done. Theoretically. It's hard to keep my sons or daughters from things they enjoy, even when I know it's in their best interest. But, then I think about the disciplines that will need to be theirs in adulthood, and I do my best.

[Moni]

things that can be done to facilitate an earlier bedtime--dim the lights, turn off the computer and the cell phone, and turn down the noise level t.

 

:iagree:

 

 

:) And power up the A/C for a short while, get it nice and chilly. ;)

[Kathy in MD]

...showing two things. First, teenagers need a lot more sleep than many people think, with 9 to 10 hours being normal. I have observed this with all of my children. My children manage to accomplish more in less time if they have adequate sleep.

 

Second, the natural wake/sleep cycle of teenagers tends to be later than that of younger children. There are some things that can be done to facilitate an earlier bedtime--dim the lights, turn off the computer and the cell phone, and turn down the noise level in the home earlier in the evening.

 

You might be interested in reading some of the research yourself. Just 'google' teenagers and sleep, and you'll find lots of websites reporting the research.

 

Ultimately, I think you are wise to bite your tongue and allow your dd to manage her own schedule. The natural consequence of not being able to participate in leisure activities until all school work is done seems like the best way to allow teens to experience the kind of consequence that will plague them in college or in employment. If swimming and Awana are part of the school schedule, I would turn off computers, radios, ipods, and other activities of pure leisure until all work is done. Theoretically. It's hard to keep my sons or daughters from things they enjoy, even when I know it's in their best interest. But, then I think about the disciplines that will need to be theirs in adulthood, and I do my best.

 

We had a neuro-researcher talk at my ds's former school. He agreed with LaJuanna's post. Outside lights can also make falling asleep difficult, so black out curtains may be called for.

 

My teen also finds falling asleep directly after an evening activity difficult. Even though he tends to fall asleep relatively early, any evening activity requires a discussion and wind down time period before sleep.

 

Finally I believe that any heavy excercise, such as swimming, tends to increase sleep needs.

[Jenn in CA]

I love this! This is something of my approach... give them a good reason *not* to forget.

[Tabrett]

You seem to have ignored the posts about your teen needing more sleep. Whether you are like the idea or not it is a fact and you are not going to be able to get her over the "sleepies" with out giving her more sleep in the morning. You may be able to have her get up on her own by not letting her do her evening activities, but she is still going to be sleepy and useless until her body wakes up.

 

Your really can't compare a ski trip to a regular morning. If you are getting to do something exciting like skiing, your adrenalin is kicking in. The adrenalin is not kicking in on a regular school morning.

 

Please figure out a way she can sleep more. My dd is in public high school that starts at 7:30. I see her so sleepy and I hurt for her. I ask her to go to sleep at 10 pm, but she says she can't; she is just too awake. She really does try. She was much more alert last year when she homeschooled and was allowed to get up at 8:00. There is no way public school is going to do the right thing for teens and start school later so kids can get more sleep, but as a homeschooler you have the ability to do the right thing for your kids.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Tabrett

[Tabrett]

I can't help but be curious:

 

Why is it taking from 7:30-5:00 to get all her schoolwork done? That seems like a long time to finish school. That's 8.5 hours (I included a 1 hour lunch break) of schoolwork time. Is there something that could help her get her school work done in 6 hours, so she could wake up later? Waking up at 8 and starting school at 9 would give her 7 hours to complete school by 5 including an hour lunch break. Is 7 hours of school not enough time for her to complete the work?

 

Just curious.

[74Heaven]

I can't help but be curious:

 

Why is it taking from 7:30-5:00 to get all her schoolwork done? That seems like a long time to finish school. That's 8.5 hours (I included a 1 hour lunch break) of schoolwork time. Is there something that could help her get her school work done in 6 hours, so she could wake up later? Waking up at 8 and starting school at 9 would give her 7 hours to complete school by 5 including an hour lunch break. Is 7 hours of school not enough time for her to complete the work?

 

Just curious.

 

The how-tos of getting 10 hrs of sleep and still fitting in the most important things. I was not ignoring the sleep posts - but..... I'm not sure how to do this. It did pique my interest when a poster mentioned her student accomplished more in less time when she was well-rested. Maybe we'll have to try a 2-week test! I'll think about doing that and reporting back!

 

As far as the 730-5p - with a nonmotivated high schooler in academically challenging classes, I am guessing many can relate to how long it all takes. Lunch/snack breaks, Chemistry, Geometry, History and Literature each take about 1.5 to 2 hrs a day; Spanish, Latin, Piano, Devotions/Bible and chores take other 20-40min each. Voila! Wake up, dive in and 11 hours later ... its dinner time... The first four + Spanish are my requirements; the Latin is dtr's love!

 

Dtr is a slow-worker so to speak, def has ADD tendencies - and just struggles (but perseveres) to get everything done in a timely manner with an acceptable quality of work.)

 

Anyone else want to think about a 2week test of 10 hrs of sleep for our teens???

Lisaj

[Tabrett]

I would give the 10 hour night a try and see if it helps her do her work in a more timely manner. My dd in high school is also a slow worker who preservers until it is all complete, so I know where you are coming from. :ack2:

Maybe if she knows she is going to be allowed to get more sleep she will try to stay more focused during school.

 

I didn't mean to come across so harsh. I get really frustrated at schools not doing the right things for kids (like my dd's school). High schools should start at 9 and end at 3:30 if they really wanted to have the prime time learning hours for kids. But IMHO they really don't care or they would change.

[Garga]

I've always needed a lot of sleep.

 

It could be that she'll be able to do the work faster with more sleep. If I don't get enough sleep, then I have a very hard time getting stuff done the next day. Very hard time. I work at about 1/3 of the speed I can when I'm rested.

 

Also, maybe she needs a 20 minute nap in the afternoon? When I'm tired and going too slow, I pop in a movie for the boys, set a timer for 25 minutes, and sleep until it goes off. (Takes about 5-10 minutes to fall asleep, leaving me 15-20 minutes of actual sleep time.)

 

Taking a nap can make a dramatic difference in my energy/activity level, letting me get more done.

[Moni]

Anyone else want to think about a 2week test of 10 hrs of sleep for our teens???

 

 

We are already there. Sleep has always been a priorit here.

 

My teens too say/said they get more done in less time with better retention, with adequate sleep.

 

So do I, come to th ink of it.

 

So too probably does anyone. ;)

It just kind of makes sense anyway.

 

How can one function more poorly with adequate sleep ? ? :001_huh:

 

:seeya:

 

Welcome to the rested!

[Kathy in MD]

I didn't mean to come across so harsh. I get really frustrated at schools not doing the right things for kids (like my dd's school). High schools should start at 9 and end at 3:30 if they really wanted to have the prime time learning hours for kids. But IMHO they really don't care or they would change.

 

Our community had a debate about delaying the high schools several years ago. One problems was that if the high schools started late, becuase of busing, the grade schoolers would have to start much earlier -- resulting in first graders walking to school in the dark in winter. But there were also two powerful groups that were very against having the high schoolers get out of school later -- employers of teens and high school coaches. (the coaches were wooried about being able to schedule the practice fields and gyms for all the assorted teams)

[Cindy in WA]

Too be very honest, if I had to face 1.5 to 2hrs a day of ANY subject, let alone FOUR, I wouldn't want to get out of bed either. That would be overwhelming. I know academics are important, but I'd look for ways to revamp especially for an ADD prone student.

 

Down time for pondering and simply being is extremely important for teens. Time just for fun is important too. There doesn't seem to be much time available for anything but school and commitments in the schedule. That would be exhausting and taxing.

 

I totally agree with the need for more sleep as well. Teens need as much sleep as toddlers.

Cindy

[momof2boys]

gets up when he gets up. I tried to enforce a set time for lights out and lights on but I was met with a lot of resistance from him. My husband told me to just let him get himself to bed and get himself up. So hard as it is for me I let him be. I am going to college myself and I wanted him to be up and have any school work that he would need my assistance on finished by noon so I could work on my school in the afternoons. I also h ave a 15 year old son who never has to be told to get up in the mornings. He is a self motivator and his thinking is the sooner I get done the sooner I can do what Iwant to do, which here lately is play x-box live.

So in conlusion I would say leave her alone. Like others have posted when she misses doing some of the things she likes because she is no t finished with she will get up earlier hopefully. :001_smile: