*Maintenance* of Foreign Language for a Year

[mathmarm]

My son is completing his 3rd year of French. He's able to read, write and converse in French fairly well, but he's asked to not do French next year and I'm struggling with this request. He's made so much progress but is nowhere near fluent and I'm worried that the old adage of use it or lose it will cause him to forget (nearly) everything.

I'm looking for ideas on how I keep his French in maintenance mode, without him losing tons of his French gains but it still feel like I'm trying to honor his request.

He doesn't know this, but it would help our budget if we didn't have two kids working with the tutor but we'd really like them to get a solid foundation in the French Language before middle school. Hubby is strongly against Jr. taking a year off of French, and I'm not too keen on the idea either, but I'd at least like to ponder how this could work and not lead to a language disaster.

I'm considering introducing TV Shows/Movies in French (suggestions?)

My daughter will continue to study French with the tutor so there will still be some presence and I'm hoping that they'll continue to use the language with each other.

Any input that can help me with this decision.

[Clarita]

A pen pal might be fun (I have no idea how you'd go about finding a French pen pal, though). 

When I was younger my mom put the thought in my head that Chinese was a really good secret code. So I had a few friends where we use Chinese as our secret code. I even have adult friends that we use this technique. It can't be stuff that's too bad because it's not a reliable secret code (someone might understand it), but you know situations like "that's really expensive don't you think?" or "should we offer the kids ice cream?"

[EKS]

I'd simply inform him that he will be doing French next year.  

[Miss Tick]

Do you think he would be invested enough to actually do maintenance? I mean if you scheduled out a tv series for Tuesdays, activities on a website for Thursdays, and meet the monthly Duolingo goal along with at least 2 Duo lessons a day - for instance, would he willingly comply? We used to have Duo prizes for reaching various steak milestones.

In my family, demanding someone learn a foreign language would have been a long-reaching mistake. Clearly it works for some families.

Is he thinking that another language might be of more interest? Would this be an acceptable change in your household? Do you think he feels quietly competitive with his sister? Maybe it feels more noble to choose to bow out than never measure up (even if this is not an objective truth). Perhaps understanding what he hopes to accomplish would help (and maybe you already do, no requirement to share here)

 

[maize]

How old is he?

Asterix comics and other books worked wonders for my French as a kid. I didn't have access to TV or movies but those would have been good too. Audiobooks are another excellent option; I like to listen to books I am already familiar with in English in languages I am trying to maintain or improve in. The ability to slow down the audiobook can be helpful as well.

If he continues to access the language regularly in some form he won't lose it.

[mathmarm]

14 hours ago, Clarita said:

A pen pal might be fun (I have no idea how you'd go about finding a French pen pal, though). 

When I was younger my mom put the thought in my head that Chinese was a really good secret code.

Oh a Pen Pal sounds like a great idea! We have a lead on where to go to get him a French Pen Pal.
They definitely would like to use French as "their secret language", I'll see about selling the idea.

13 hours ago, EKS said:

I'd simply inform him that he will be doing French next year.  

This is what Hubby says to do.

11 hours ago, Miss Tick said:

Do you think he would be invested enough to actually do maintenance?

Is he thinking that another language might be of more interest?

 

1) He wouldn't have the authority to outright refuse to do the maintenance work.

2) It's not about another language, he doesn't want to change languages. He wants a break from doing the work French is becoming for him.

Lately, he mentions that he's fatigued after his tutoring sessions--sleepy, mentally fatigued, his eyes hurt (not sure why his eyes hurt after speaking/listening). This year we've been working up to Native Speed French and it's kicking him in the patootie because he's constantly exhausted after participating in French Conversation drills or choral readings of text.

9 hours ago, maize said:

How old is he?

Asterix comics and other books worked wonders for my French as a kid. I didn't have access to TV or movies but those would have been good too. Audiobooks are another excellent option; I like to listen to books I am already familiar with in English in languages I am trying to maintain or improve in. The ability to slow down the audiobook can be helpful as well.

If he continues to access the language regularly in some form he won't lose it.

We might do a more varied selection of Audiobooks. What do you use to adjust the speed of your audiobooks?

[wendyroo]

I don't know what level of French his sister is at, but maybe they could work through some of The ULAT together. That is immersion, so it would keep him listening to French, and the oral exercises (that are often better to do in pairs or groups) would keep him speaking some French. Plus it is very cheap, and there are lots of free sample lessons to give it a try. My kids have used the Spanish version, and while it isn't their favorite thing in the whole wide world, they do find Señor Nesbitt fairly entertaining.

[freesia]

Could you do an easier year? Maybe he could translate Harry Potter from French, watch YouTube cartoons in French, do x amount of minutes on duolingo, that kind of thing. If he’s been working with a tutor—that’s pretty intense. I would give him credit for the work he puts in. 

[maize]

3 hours ago, mathmarm said:

 

We might do a more varied selection of Audiobooks. What do you use to adjust the speed of your audiobooks?

Audible has speed adjustment functionality built-in.

I have both audible.com and audible.fr accounts.

[Clarita]

23 hours ago, mathmarm said:

I'm worried that the old adage of use it or lose it will cause him to forget (nearly) everything.

FWIW I don't totally believe that's true. I believe the parts that you've "mastered" you will retain with all subjects. Maybe you need a little bit of review to get back into the hang of doing things but it's not lost. In my own experience even though I stop actively using and definitely learning Chinese for big stretches of time (years) I still don't totally lose it. 

Not to say you won't lose the habit of doing the work for the language or that there isn't taking a few steps back from how proficient you used to be before the break. 

[wendyroo]

7 hours ago, Clarita said:

FWIW I don't totally believe that's true. I believe the parts that you've "mastered" you will retain with all subjects. Maybe you need a little bit of review to get back into the hang of doing things but it's not lost. In my own experience even though I stop actively using and definitely learning Chinese for big stretches of time (years) I still don't totally lose it. 

Not to say you won't lose the habit of doing the work for the language or that there isn't taking a few steps back from how proficient you used to be before the break. 

I think "use it or lose it" certainly can happen in some cases, especially with children whose brains are so plastic (which can be a blessing and a curse).

My niece and nephew spent their early years in Germany. Both my BIL and SIL are native English speakers, but my BIL learned enough German to work in a German-speaking engineering job there. My SIL learned enough German to shop, talk to neighbors, give birth, etc.. They moved there right before my nephew was born, when my niece was 2. They lived there for 4 years, long enough for both the kids to attend two years at the local German-speaking preschool, and for my niece to attend kindergarten there.

When they moved back to the states for my niece to attend first grade, the kids fluently spoke age-appropriate amounts of German. They watched German TV, listened to stories in German, played games in German. And then no effort whatsoever was made to maintain the language...and it was all gone in about a year. 🤷‍♀️

[FreyaO]

The dubbing feature in Netflix is pretty good. My experience is with a much smaller than French language and the quality is impressive. The selection is mostly cartoons and other kids' stuff.

[Gil]

On 6/22/2024 at 4:35 PM, mathmarm said:

My son is completing his 3rd year of French. He's able to read, write and converse in French fairly well, but he's asked to not do French next year and I'm struggling with this request. He's made so much progress but is nowhere near fluent and I'm worried that the old adage of use it or lose it will cause him to forget (nearly) everything.

I'm looking for ideas on how I keep his French in maintenance mode, without him losing tons of his French gains but it still feel like I'm trying to honor his request.

...

Any input that can help me with this decision.

I strongly suggest that you do NOT take a year off from French. The lost progress will feel crippling and (nearly) restarting will feel hopeless.

The reality is that hes not fluent, so "maintenance mode" may not really be an option. It's like taking a year off from reading when you have an early reader.

On 6/22/2024 at 8:43 PM, EKS said:

I'd simply inform him that he will be doing French next year.  

I second this.

On 6/23/2024 at 10:15 AM, mathmarm said:

2) It's not about another language, he doesn't want to change languages. He wants a break from doing the work French is becoming for him.

Lately, he mentions that he's fatigued after his tutoring sessions--sleepy, mentally fatigued, his eyes hurt (not sure why his eyes hurt after speaking/listening). This year we've been working up to Native Speed French and it's kicking him in the patootie because he's constantly exhausted after participating in French Conversation drills or choral readings of text.

That's common in Language Learning when you reach the a more intermediate level. It's a thing. The only way through it is through it. Feed him some extra avocado, protein and electrolytes on tutoring days. He'll survive.

You're all going to feel better when the hard work is paying dividends.

[maize]

On 6/23/2024 at 9:45 PM, wendyroo said:

I think "use it or lose it" certainly can happen in some cases, especially with children whose brains are so plastic (which can be a blessing and a curse).

My niece and nephew spent their early years in Germany. Both my BIL and SIL are native English speakers, but my BIL learned enough German to work in a German-speaking engineering job there. My SIL learned enough German to shop, talk to neighbors, give birth, etc.. They moved there right before my nephew was born, when my niece was 2. They lived there for 4 years, long enough for both the kids to attend two years at the local German-speaking preschool, and for my niece to attend kindergarten there.

When they moved back to tphe states for my niece to attend first grade, the kids fluently spoke age-appropriate amounts of German. They watched German TV, listened to stories in German, played games in German. And then no effort whatsoever was made to maintain the language...and it was all gone in about a year. 🤷‍♀️

I have seen this happen, but only with young, pre-pubertal children. 

Synaptic pruning (the removal of synaptic circuits in the brain that are not being regularly used) happens rapidly through about age 10, but slows down in adolescence. Losing a practiced skill like a language completely post-puberty is rare; the language can get rusty and difficult to access, but is usually revivable given new exposure.

[madteaparty]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:45 AM, wendyroo said:

I think "use it or lose it" certainly can happen in some cases, especially with children whose brains are so plastic (which can be a blessing and a curse).

My niece and nephew spent their early years in Germany. Both my BIL and SIL are native English speakers, but my BIL learned enough German to work in a German-speaking engineering job there. My SIL learned enough German to shop, talk to neighbors, give birth, etc.. They moved there right before my nephew was born, when my niece was 2. They lived there for 4 years, long enough for both the kids to attend two years at the local German-speaking preschool, and for my niece to attend kindergarten there.

When they moved back to the states for my niece to attend first grade, the kids fluently spoke age-appropriate amounts of German. They watched German TV, listened to stories in German, played games in German. And then no effort whatsoever was made to maintain the language...and it was all gone in about a year. 🤷‍♀️

I wonder what would happen if they picked up the language again. My son was friends with a little boy in K (in the US) who spoke no english at home and then who then moved to a third language country (neither his parents’s language nor English was done in school). His English suffered as a result but when he visited us in the states as a tween, he picked it up remarkably fast compared to say, my French exchange students who are learning de novo. 
OP, I don’t know what you do now but for us here just maintaining a foreign language (aka, permanently treading water) feels like a lot of work. She meets with a tutor at least weekly (much more frequently on school holidays, but honestly this is more play date in French, they play games and joke and sometimes read very basic stuff), reads cartoons (Adele), and books like Petit Nicolas. In summer she copies down two French sentences from a handwriting book.  For all that, my daughter’s French is stuck at the level it was when she last lived there, around 3rd grade. I’m sure she’s losing some to be honest.