Logic of English vs OPGTR

[Momof3boys]

I’m looking to gently begin a reading program with my 4 year old son. I think I’ve narrowed it down to Logic of English and The Ordinary Parent’s Guide to Teaching Reading. Both seem like reputable programs and appeal to me as his teacher. He’s very energetic but usually has a decent attention span when it comes to read alouds. I checked out OPGTR from our library and completed lesson 1 with him. We made it through but he certainly wasn’t begging for another lesson. This program seems like it would be the easiest/quickest way to get it done. However, it looks like LOE would likely produce a better speller in the long run and also be more interactive and enjoyable for him. I don’t mind the investment in LOE if it’s what works best. What are your suggestions? 

Thank you!!

[Green Bean]

What skill level is he at? Does he know letter sounds? How are his fine motor skills? Is he interested in learning to read? Does he “read” books to you or stuffies?

 I would start with LeapFrog Letter Factory dvd followed by Word Factory, if the answer is no to the above.

Have you considered All About Reading?

[Momof3boys]

8 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

What skill level is he at? Does he know letter sounds? How are his fine motor skills? Is he interested in learning to read? Does he “read” books to you or stuffies?

 I would start with LeapFrog Letter Factory dvd followed by Word Factory, if the answer is no to the above.

Have you considered All About Reading?

He knows the sound every letter makes and can identify most of the letters. He reverses b’s and d’s and confuses v with w. That sort of thing. He reads books to his little brother (2) but only because little brother asks. We have watched those shows and love them but I’ve noticed they mostly use capital letters. I am looking for more of a program so I actually make time to focus on it every day (or few days). He doesn’t like flash cards at all so we’ve been using the bananagrams recently to help. I have looked into it. It just wasn’t very exciting to me but maybe I should look again. Did you have a good experience with AAR? 

[Clarita]

I am using OPGTR with my youngest. I do not open the book in front of her and run through the lessons. We use magnet letters and and white board and I have access to some beginner phonics readers from my eldest. My personal opinion is I'd like to make reading a little more engaging and fun even if I don't really have to. 

When she gets fluent at reading words with a single vowel then I could move to AAR, because I really like that program. Not that you need all of that to read. I just like the variety of stories (fiction, non-fiction, funny, riddles, poems) included in their readers and I like that it brings in other aspects of reading aside from decoding words. I use AAR with my eldest and I continue to use it even though he can read almost anything he is interested in reading (6). I wouldn't start AAR level 1 until a child can comfortable read CVC words without having to sound out every single letter. Technically it's not a requirement but some of the fluency practice can seem like torture if they're sounding out every single letter.   

Fine motor skills would be one thing you need to think about if you want to do spelling and reading at the same time. Spelling is pretty labor intensive if you can't write. Yes there are workarounds by using letter cards or magnet letters, but it's a bit tedious. That's why for my eldest I separate reading from spelling. For my youngest she is much more into writing/doodling so I'd be more willing to do it at the same time. 

[Momof3boys]

24 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I am using OPGTR with my youngest. I do not open the book in front of her and run through the lessons. We use magnet letters and and white board and I have access to some beginner phonics readers from my eldest. My personal opinion is I'd like to make reading a little more engaging and fun even if I don't really have to. 

When she gets fluent at reading words with a single vowel then I could move to AAR, because I really like that program. Not that you need all of that to read. I just like the variety of stories (fiction, non-fiction, funny, riddles, poems) included in their readers and I like that it brings in other aspects of reading aside from decoding words. I use AAR with my eldest and I continue to use it even though he can read almost anything he is interested in reading (6). I wouldn't start AAR level 1 until a child can comfortable read CVC words without having to sound out every single letter. Technically it's not a requirement but some of the fluency practice can seem like torture if they're sounding out every single letter.   

Fine motor skills would be one thing you need to think about if you want to do spelling and reading at the same time. Spelling is pretty labor intensive if you can't write. Yes there are workarounds by using letter cards or magnet letters, but it's a bit tedious. That's why for my eldest I separate reading from spelling. For my youngest she is much more into writing/doodling so I'd be more willing to do it at the same time. 

Oh, I really like the idea of using OPGTR with a more hands-on and playful approach! I didn’t realize that spelling was so tedious if the child can’t write well. That definitely helps me with this decision since my son isn’t ready to write much yet. I’m going to try using OPGTR using magnet letters like you suggested and then once he’s fluent with cvc words, I can pivot to AAR or LOE if it’s necessary. Thank you so much!! 

[countrymum]

I really like AAR. I have used it all the way through twice. 1 needed it one probably didn't. I tried some other stuff with my current 6 yr old, but have gone back to AAR. It is thorough and incremental. Also it's my son's favorite one. I got it back out and he said something like, o that one I like it.

I really like the mastery approach. I would hold off on level 4 till a child is in 3rd grade or so. My daughter did it in like 1st grade with no trouble, but she didn't really start using those words borrowed from other languages and harder vocab till last year or this year. I think it would have stuck better if I'd waited....

[Clarita]

I just remembered All About Reading also makes a bunch of free printable activities. So you can add some silliness to OPGTR. A lot of them have empty "cards" that you can fill in yourself with whatever you want your child reviewing or working on.

https://blog.allaboutlearningpress.com/category/reading/

[Momof3boys]

12 hours ago, countrymum said:

I really like AAR. I have used it all the way through twice. 1 needed it one probably didn't. I tried some other stuff with my current 6 yr old, but have gone back to AAR. It is thorough and incremental. Also it's my son's favorite one. I got it back out and he said something like, o that one I like it.

I really like the mastery approach. I would hold off on level 4 till a child is in 3rd grade or so. My daughter did it in like 1st grade with no trouble, but she didn't really start using those words borrowed from other languages and harder vocab till last year or this year. I think it would have stuck better if I'd waited....

Ok, this is really good to know! It seems like a lot of people love AAR and their kids do too (big plus)! Thank you so much! 

[Momof3boys]

7 hours ago, Clarita said:

I just remembered All About Reading also makes a bunch of free printable activities. So you can add some silliness to OPGTR. A lot of them have empty "cards" that you can fill in yourself with whatever you want your child reviewing or working on.

https://blog.allaboutlearningpress.com/category/reading/

Ok, I love that! I’ll definitely be utilizing these to mix it up a bit! I tried doing today’s lesson with just the magnetic letters and whiteboard and he loved it. He was even trying to write the letters unprompted, so I think I’ll get much more out of him that way! 

[BusyMom5]

I'm using AAR 1 with my just-turned-5 youngest.  I used LoE with my older ones, but I remember having to always look for more books all the time.   I'm using the printable game board from AAR with the word cards, and I'm using my LoE game cards, too!  The two programs are very similar,  but I think AAR is a bit easier to use.  I may switch to LoE when she's ready to start marking types of sounds?  Maybe 👀 

There are a few differences that might matter to you- I felt like LoE A has a lot more phonemic awareness in it- the beginning is mostly playing with words and sounds.  There isn't much reading until half-way through the book.  AAR, on the other hand,  starts reading simple words on the first lesson.  This worked for us bc I did a lot of the LoE A stuff last year, so mine was already beginning to blend sounds on her own.  I can see AAR being too hard for most early 4-5s, while LoE felt more like playing word games.  

LoE- stronger on phonemic awareness, more fun games,  more physical games, a little more active IMO.  Teaches all letter sounds at one time (for example the 3 sounds of A).  Level A does not teach 2-letter sounds like th, sh, ch (those are in level B).  Has little speech helpers for sounds.  

AAR- a lot more stories to read- probably 35-45 stories for level 1!  Pages of words that go with each story and lesson- you can have the student read them or use them for a game.  Most games or cut outs are kinda lame IMO,  but little one likes them.  Teacher manual might be a bit easier to follow for new homeschoolers or those nervous about teaching reading.  Introduced Th, sh, ch- all one right after the other 😲 This is my biggest complaint so far.  

Hope this helps!  

[Momof4sweetkids]

We did AAR after the first half of 100 easy lessons. My dd was newly 4 when we started AAR 1 and it has been a great fit for us. 

[countrymum]

AAR pre 1 has a lot of phonemic awareness in it. Like that is basically the point of it. My current 3.5 yr old loves it. 

I agree with starting AAR 1 after the child can blend 3 letter words. This current one did well with parts of Abeka K4 a few yrs ago as he knew letter sounds and was stuck on blending. I used the blend ladders and blend practice cards A from Abeka. Little Seedling press Foundational phonics letter mastery is also great if your child is still learning letters and blending...bonus is the included writing. He did this as well. He wasn't ready to really read yet I guess.

I think that marking or circling sounds can be beneficial for some kids. I am adding it into AAR this time around. Since I want to reuse the $40 student book, I am putting the fluency pages in page protectors and using dry erase markers. It's not hard to say mark vowels and circle all the consonant teams or blends or whatever for however many you want.

[Clarita]

3 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

Most games or cut outs are kinda lame IMO,  but little one likes them.

My eldest saw right through these "games" and treated them no different than if I handed him a stack of flashcards or a sheet of words. For my youngest though the story around the glorified flash cards makes a huge difference. Somehow to her flashcards in the shape of doggy biscuits with a doggie cutout are no longer boring flashcards.

[Momof3boys]

5 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

I'm using AAR 1 with my just-turned-5 youngest.  I used LoE with my older ones, but I remember having to always look for more books all the time.   I'm using the printable game board from AAR with the word cards, and I'm using my LoE game cards, too!  The two programs are very similar,  but I think AAR is a bit easier to use.  I may switch to LoE when she's ready to start marking types of sounds?  Maybe 👀 

There are a few differences that might matter to you- I felt like LoE A has a lot more phonemic awareness in it- the beginning is mostly playing with words and sounds.  There isn't much reading until half-way through the book.  AAR, on the other hand,  starts reading simple words on the first lesson.  This worked for us bc I did a lot of the LoE A stuff last year, so mine was already beginning to blend sounds on her own.  I can see AAR being too hard for most early 4-5s, while LoE felt more like playing word games.  

LoE- stronger on phonemic awareness, more fun games,  more physical games, a little more active IMO.  Teaches all letter sounds at one time (for example the 3 sounds of A).  Level A does not teach 2-letter sounds like th, sh, ch (those are in level B).  Has little speech helpers for sounds.  

AAR- a lot more stories to read- probably 35-45 stories for level 1!  Pages of words that go with each story and lesson- you can have the student read them or use them for a game.  Most games or cut outs are kinda lame IMO,  but little one likes them.  Teacher manual might be a bit easier to follow for new homeschoolers or those nervous about teaching reading.  Introduced Th, sh, ch- all one right after the other 😲 This is my biggest complaint so far.  

Hope this helps!  

Thank you! That helps quite a bit! The programs appear to be very similar so it's nice to hear the differences from someone familiar with both of them! What did you use for readers with your first 2? Is it hard to find readers because it progresses slower in terms of reading actual books than AAR? Does learning all the letter sounds slow them down? I honestly don't think he'll mind that but I'm sure reading practice helps tremendously. I have looked at both of the teacher's manuals and the LOE one just appeals to me more visually. I'm not sure why! 

[Momof3boys]

4 hours ago, Momof3sweetgirls said:

We did AAR after the first half of 100 easy lessons. My dd was newly 4 when we started AAR 1 and it has been a great fit for us. 

That's great to know. Thank you! It seems like a lot of people love AAR! Your daughter probably had a great start if she got through half of 100 Easy Lessons! That's great! 

[Momof3boys]

3 hours ago, countrymum said:

AAR pre 1 has a lot of phonemic awareness in it. Like that is basically the point of it. My current 3.5 yr old loves it. 

I agree with starting AAR 1 after the child can blend 3 letter words. This current one did well with parts of Abeka K4 a few yrs ago as he knew letter sounds and was stuck on blending. I used the blend ladders and blend practice cards A from Abeka. Little Seedling press Foundational phonics letter mastery is also great if your child is still learning letters and blending...bonus is the included writing. He did this as well. He wasn't ready to really read yet I guess.

I think that marking or circling sounds can be beneficial for some kids. I am adding it into AAR this time around. Since I want to reuse the $40 student book, I am putting the fluency pages in page protectors and using dry erase markers. It's not hard to say mark vowels and circle all the consonant teams or blends or whatever for however many you want.

That's good to know. My son is actually decent at phonemic awareness. If I say a 3 letter word, he can tell me first, middle, and last letter/sound in the word. He would rather do that than have letters in front of us for some reason. Maybe it feels more casual. Abeka is really good for blending so we can try those blend ladders if he gets stuck. Good to know about marking as well!! So much to learn. 🙂

[BusyMom5]

2 hours ago, daughteroftheking said:

Thank you! That helps quite a bit! The programs appear to be very similar so it's nice to hear the differences from someone familiar with both of them! What did you use for readers with your first 2? Is it hard to find readers because it progresses slower in terms of reading actual books than AAR? Does learning all the letter sounds slow them down? I honestly don't think he'll mind that but I'm sure reading practice helps tremendously. I have looked at both of the teacher's manuals and the LOE one just appeals to me more visually. I'm not sure why! 

I found printable word family books, but I couldn't find any that really followed the sequence.   I added some sight words so that we could use some from the library.  I got the set from Horizons, and I bought the AAR 2, 3 and 4 readers. I forgot to say I also have OPGTTR from my oldest, nearly 20.  I used that for extra reading practice and to find words to practice spelling.  This is LoE biggest drawback IMO.  They don't even have many words listed to practice with- I had to look them up in OPG or try to think of them during the lesson.  When it was time for my youngest,  I just needed something easy to pull out and use.  I have a bunch of kids - 3 in high school and a 6th grader- and I just don't have time to look through books and websites to find the right level.  What I have for my current Kindergartener:

Horizons set of 4 readers

The Good and the Beautiful Nature Reader 1 (note these add in sight words, but we've still been able to use it)  

AAR set if 3 readers

So far we are about at lesson 30- right on the middle of the book.  She has completed reader 1, and continues to read it to gain fluency.  We are on the Slim Went West story, and she's blending and having to sound out a lot of words in Reader 2.  That's normal.  I notice fluency on high frequency words like got, can, has, etc.  In a week, we read a new story or two and play the games with the word cards.  I don't use the letter tiles.  Instead I write on the white board and use the word pages from AAR to get words to have her sound out - they are long and tedious, and overwhelming for a 5 year old, so I try to use games or write them out instead of reading from the page.  She reads from Reader 1 every day to build fluency and confidence.  Hope this helps! 

[countrymum]

I really like the American Language Series readers. They have Christian stories in them which I appreciate. I have added these to AAR. I think they'd work for many programs. The first 4 I find the most useful. They have 1 or 2 pg stories with colorful crayon pictures that don't give the story away.

 https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/042639/American-Language-Series-K-Reader-Set.html?

I also put the fluency pgs in sheet protectors and let the child cross them off as he or she reads the words and phrases. I also go by a timer. Like a 15 min reading lesson period. Read aloud practice later in the day. Then it's not overwhelming or unending. A sand timer can help the child see the remaining time and see how much he can get done;)

With 1 child we did level 1 twice. Just go at the child's pace.  No matter what program you choose;)

Edited January 11, 2023 by countrymum

[Helpdesk]

We recently revised the OPGTR curriculum to make it easier to teach and to provide the student with his/her own book.  Take a look at the samples on the sample page.  The book you saw in the library is probably the original edition.  

This article by Susan Wise Bauer, from our FAQ, has good info about where to start in all language arts. 

[Momof3boys]

21 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

I found printable word family books, but I couldn't find any that really followed the sequence.   I added some sight words so that we could use some from the library.  I got the set from Horizons, and I bought the AAR 2, 3 and 4 readers. I forgot to say I also have OPGTTR from my oldest, nearly 20.  I used that for extra reading practice and to find words to practice spelling.  This is LoE biggest drawback IMO.  They don't even have many words listed to practice with- I had to look them up in OPG or try to think of them during the lesson.  When it was time for my youngest,  I just needed something easy to pull out and use.  I have a bunch of kids - 3 in high school and a 6th grader- and I just don't have time to look through books and websites to find the right level.  What I have for my current Kindergartener:

Horizons set of 4 readers

The Good and the Beautiful Nature Reader 1 (note these add in sight words, but we've still been able to use it)  

AAR set if 3 readers

So far we are about at lesson 30- right on the middle of the book.  She has completed reader 1, and continues to read it to gain fluency.  We are on the Slim Went West story, and she's blending and having to sound out a lot of words in Reader 2.  That's normal.  I notice fluency on high frequency words like got, can, has, etc.  In a week, we read a new story or two and play the games with the word cards.  I don't use the letter tiles.  Instead I write on the white board and use the word pages from AAR to get words to have her sound out - they are long and tedious, and overwhelming for a 5 year old, so I try to use games or write them out instead of reading from the page.  She reads from Reader 1 every day to build fluency and confidence.  Hope this helps! 

Wow - this helps a lot! Thank you so much!! I watched a video of AAR 1 today and it wasn’t as challenging to implement as I was originally thinking with all the different pieces. I think I’ll continue doing OPGTR for a few minutes a day in a playful manner to get letter recognition/sounds down and likely switch to AAR once that is mastered. Everyone seems to love AAR. Even a homeschool mom I met at the boys’ barber today was raving about it haha! 

[Momof3boys]

21 hours ago, countrymum said:

I really like the American Language Series readers. They have Christian stories in them which I appreciate. I have added these to AAR. I think they'd work for many programs. The first 4 I find the most useful. They have 1 or 2 pg stories with colorful crayon pictures that don't give the story away.

 https://www.rainbowresource.com/product/042639/American-Language-Series-K-Reader-Set.html?

I also put the fluency pgs in sheet protectors and let the child cross them off as he or she reads the words and phrases. I also go by a timer. Like a 15 min reading lesson period. Read aloud practice later in the day. Then it's not overwhelming or unending. A sand timer can help the child see the remaining time and see how much he can get done;)

With 1 child we did level 1 twice. Just go at the child's pace.  No matter what program you choose;)

Thank you for the reader suggestion! Christian stories are always nice! We have a homeschool store nearby so I’ll look for them next time we’re there. I love the idea of letting them cross off the fluency words! Very satisfying! I definitely won’t be pushing him too hard. Just a few minutes a day while he’s 4 and then maybe 10-15 (if that haha) at 5. I’m ok with a slow pace and want us to enjoy the process! AAR 1 looks like a lot so I can’t imagine starting that before 5. We’ll probably just play around with OPGTR until then! Thank you so much!! 

[Momof3boys]

6 hours ago, Helpdesk said:

We recently revised the OPGTR curriculum to make it easier to teach and to provide the student with his/her own book.  Take a look at the samples on the sample page.  The book you saw in the library is probably the original edition.  

This article by Susan Wise Bauer, from our FAQ, has good info about where to start in all language arts. 

Oh no! I actually bought the older version of the book yesterday with the cards and CD (used) but that’s ok. If we end up loving it, we can get the new version since it’s not very expensive at all. The samples really do look great and easier for the child to read. Thank you so much! 

[Ellie]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:37 PM, daughteroftheking said:

I’m looking to gently begin a reading program with my 4 year old son. I think I’ve narrowed it down to Logic of English and The Ordinary Parent’s Guide to Teaching Reading. Both seem like reputable programs and appeal to me as his teacher. He’s very energetic but usually has a decent attention span when it comes to read alouds. I checked out OPGTR from our library and completed lesson 1 with him. We made it through but he certainly wasn’t begging for another lesson. This program seems like it would be the easiest/quickest way to get it done. However, it looks like LOE would likely produce a better speller in the long run and also be more interactive and enjoyable for him. I don’t mind the investment in LOE if it’s what works best. What are your suggestions? 

Thank you!!

I like the methodology of teaching children to read by teaching them to spell, but instead of LOE or AAR/AAS, my preference is Spalding, which does All the Things but with fewer moving parts and for much less money. Spalding is easy to teach, although it requires study on the teacher's part before beginning to teach; once you're teaching, you pick it up and go.

[Momof3boys]

On 1/12/2023 at 10:45 AM, Ellie said:

I like the methodology of teaching children to read by teaching them to spell, but instead of LOE or AAR/AAS, my preference is Spalding, which does All the Things but with fewer moving parts and for much less money. Spalding is easy to teach, although it requires study on the teacher's part before beginning to teach; once you're teaching, you pick it up and go.

I’ve seen Spalding suggested multiple times on these threads so I’ll look into that too. Thank you!