Suspect arrested

[Grace Hopper]

50 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

And the burning question… why didn’t her kill her, too?

Quoting myself to clarify that no snarky or accusing tone was intended here. I just think it’s really something only the killer knows. 

12 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

I feel really bad for her...she's getting a lot of sh*t online. I definitely have questions about the amount of time between when she saw him and when a 911 call was made, but I think there are a lot of details that were left out for right now. Plus, nobody really knows for sure how they'd act during that type of situation, so it's hard to know what happened. I hope she's getting any type of help she needs.

I too have questions about what took so long to call 911 but imagined that for one she must have been acting in shock, where time doesn’t pass normally. And yeah, there are tons of details not yet released. 

[Vintage81]

24 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

 

Yeah, I don't know if I fully believe them either. However, I did read somewhere that per some SCOTUS case it's not legal for them to do that. So even if they had seen something on him suspicious, I don't know if that evidence could be used in a trial. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't really know all the details of those laws. It does seem odd that he was pulled over twice in IN, but as @Katymentioned above, he was pulled over quite a lot. That was kind of strange...maybe he was just a really horrible driver. 🤷‍♀️

To quote myself, here's the info I read about the legalities of the traffic stop (if the FBI ordered the IN police to pull BK over)...

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Vintage81

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Grace Hopper said:

And the burning question… why didn’t her kill her, too?

I watched most of a defense attorney talk about this too, and she related it to the story of Ted Bundy murdering some women in a dorm and not others. Maybe just to terrify people. 
 

This is long too, and I’ve only seen her this once so I can’t vouch for her, but she’s super likeable and seems very intelligent. It’s interesting to hear her discuss how to attack this evidence. Clearly even she thinks he’s guilty. ETA: This woman is a defense attorney, I think she said in Maryland.
 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by Katy

[Scarlett]

Does anyone think he went back to the scene of the crime the next morning to look for the knife sheath?  
 

Also I saw a photo of the interior of the house and I don’t think he saw the girl who saw him.  

[BeachGal]

A friend of mine from college was awakened around 2 am to noises in her off-campus apartment where she lived alone. It was a small, ramshackly old house. She heard someone walking quietly toward her room and in response, rolled quietly off the bed under her desk which had a small cubby-like area where she hid. She could see the person, a man, but couldn’t make out details because it was dark. He raised a large knife above her bed but, thankfully, she was not there. The individual didn’t stick around for too long and turned around and left her room and apartment.

My friend, however, could not speak or move for hours, not until about 8 am the next morning. And that was when she called police. The man was never found.

I wonder if the roommate who survived and saw the murderer went into a freeze response as well. Although it doesn’t seem like it would be a survival mechanism, it is. Fight, flight and freeze are, according to Stephen Porges, the three responses observed in highly stressful and traumatic situations. Freezing is very common.

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

A friend of mine from college was awakened around 2 am to noises in her off-campus apartment where she lived alone. It was a small, ramshackly old house. She heard someone walking quietly toward her room and in response, rolled quietly off the bed under her desk which had a small cubby-like area where she hid. She could see the person, a man, but couldn’t make out details because it was dark. He raised a large knife above her bed but, thankfully, she was not there. The individual didn’t stick around for too long and turned around and left her room and apartment.

My friend, however, could not speak or move for hours, not until about 8 am the next morning. And that was when she called police. The man was never found.

I wonder if the roommate who survived and saw the murderer went into a freeze response as well. Although it doesn’t seem like it would be a survival mechanism, it is. Fight, flight and freeze are, according to Stephen Porges, the three responses observed in highly stressful and traumatic situations. Freezing is very common.

Especially for those who haven't reached maturity - and the brain doesn't finish developing until mid-20s.

 

[Scarlett]

9 hours ago, BeachGal said:

A friend of mine from college was awakened around 2 am to noises in her off-campus apartment where she lived alone. It was a small, ramshackly old house. She heard someone walking quietly toward her room and in response, rolled quietly off the bed under her desk which had a small cubby-like area where she hid. She could see the person, a man, but couldn’t make out details because it was dark. He raised a large knife above her bed but, thankfully, she was not there. The individual didn’t stick around for too long and turned around and left her room and apartment.

My friend, however, could not speak or move for hours, not until about 8 am the next morning. And that was when she called police. The man was never found.

I wonder if the roommate who survived and saw the murderer went into a freeze response as well. Although it doesn’t seem like it would be a survival mechanism, it is. Fight, flight and freeze are, according to Stephen Porges, the three responses observed in highly stressful and traumatic situations. Freezing is very common.

That is horrifying.  

[maize]

I agree that freezing is a common reaction, and a freeze reaction can last for hours. That happened in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping too--the sister who saw Elizabeth taken froze and it was several hours before she went to her parents and told them what happened.

[Scarlett]

50 minutes ago, maize said:

I agree that freezing is a common reaction, and a freeze reaction can last for hours. That happened in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping too--the sister who saw Elizabeth taken froze and it was several hours before she went to her parents and told them what happened.

That case came to my mind too. 

[gardenmom5]

Has anyone seen the stuff that they think he went onto chat boards to talk about it afterwards?   Apparently, someone was posting stuff that only the killer should/could know.  

My impression (before reading this) was he was doing this as an intellectual exercise to feed his ego.   This is the guy who had done a "survey" when he was at DeSales about "what did you think as you committed your crime?"

[Scarlett]

Did anyone see the video going around where a lot of that confusion about the 911 call was explained?  
 

To summarize, the two Surviving roommates woke up and saw the sliding glass door open and then shortly there after discovered the male victim. They went running out of the house in horror and one of them dialed 911 but then passed out. Passer bye came over and completed the call with zero info on what was going on other than a person was passed out in front of them. 

If that is true it explains a lot.  I don’t know if the girl who passed out was the one who saw BK as he was leaving the scene or not.  

[Katy]

22 hours ago, Vintage81 said:

 

Yeah, I don't know if I fully believe them either. However, I did read somewhere that per some SCOTUS case it's not legal for them to do that. So even if they had seen something on him suspicious, I don't know if that evidence could be used in a trial. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't really know all the details of those laws. It does seem odd that he was pulled over twice in IN, but as @Katymentioned above, he was pulled over quite a lot. That was kind of strange...maybe he was just a really horrible driver. 🤷‍♀️

Not to get too woo, but a lot of cops rely on intuition. If they had a feeling something was off they may have pulled him over just for that, and found a reason later.  I know more than one case of an officer being shot at where they credited a gut feeling with saving their life.

 I also know there’s plenty of cases of jerks saying their prejudices were intuition and there’s plenty of weird confirmation bias when it comes to memory about gut feelings… but I still think there’s something to it. 

14 hours ago, BeachGal said:

A friend of mine from college was awakened around 2 am to noises in her off-campus apartment where she lived alone. It was a small, ramshackly old house. She heard someone walking quietly toward her room and in response, rolled quietly off the bed under her desk which had a small cubby-like area where she hid. She could see the person, a man, but couldn’t make out details because it was dark. He raised a large knife above her bed but, thankfully, she was not there. The individual didn’t stick around for too long and turned around and left her room and apartment.

My friend, however, could not speak or move for hours, not until about 8 am the next morning. And that was when she called police. The man was never found.

I wonder if the roommate who survived and saw the murderer went into a freeze response as well. Although it doesn’t seem like it would be a survival mechanism, it is. Fight, flight and freeze are, according to Stephen Porges, the three responses observed in highly stressful and traumatic situations. Freezing is very common.

Yes, they described she had a freeze response in the affidavit 

4 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Has anyone seen the stuff that they think he went onto chat boards to talk about it afterwards?   Apparently, someone was posting stuff that only the killer should/could know.  

My impression (before reading this) was he was doing this as an intellectual exercise to feed his ego.   This is the guy who had done a "survey" when he was at DeSales about "what did you think as you committed your crime?"

No, link?

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Did anyone see the video going around where a lot of that confusion about the 911 call was explained?  
 

To summarize, the two Surviving roommates woke up and saw the sliding glass door open and then shortly there after discovered the male victim. They went running out of the house in horror and one of them dialed 911 but then passed out. Passer bye came over and completed the call with zero info on what was going on other than a person was passed out in front of them. 

If that is true it explains a lot.  I don’t know if the girl who passed out was the one who saw BK as he was leaving the scene or not.  

No, link?

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

Not to get too woo, but a lot of cops rely on intuition. If they had a feeling something was off they may have pulled him over just for that, and found a reason later.  I know more than one case of an officer being shot at where they credited a gut feeling with saving their life.

 I also know there’s plenty of cases of jerks saying their prejudices were intuition and there’s plenty of weird confirmation bias when it comes to memory about gut feelings… but I still think there’s something to it. 

Yes, they described she had a freeze response in the affidavit 

No, link?

No, link?

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTRgJmSo1/
 

He takes a minute to get to the point. 

[gardenmom5]

10 hours ago, Katy said:

 

No, link?

No, link?

Here's a link that has been updated.  It includes photos/video from the vigil of a man that looks like BK.
It also has photos of the tweets from the former FBI agent, and the FB and Reddit posts by two posters who are suspected of being BK. (as well as mods on the reddit thread, and the FB page.)  The admin for the reddit thread said the poster on that site stopped posting after BK was arrested.  the poster was obsessed with the knife sheath - before the police said anything about a knife sheath.  

[BeachGal]

I’ve been following this case on and off on Reddit (MoscowMurders). Recently, someone tracked down Kohberger’s comments on an old health forum for visual snow and depersonalization. He was around 14-17 at the time. He mentions how those two problems started when he was nine. He also mentions how he would have bouts of random extreme anger and that if affected his relationships. He knew something was wrong and was trying to remedy it. Maybe those problems also led to his heroin use in his teens. The thread is over on Reddit if you’re interested.

Edited January 8, 2023 by BeachGal
clarification

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

I’ve been following this case on and off on Reddit (MoscowMurders). Recently, someone tracked down Kohberger’s comments on an old health forum for visual snow and depersonalization. He was around 14-17 at the time. He mentions how those two problems started when he was nine. He also mentions how he would have bouts of random extreme anger and that if affected his relationships. He knew something was wrong and was trying to remedy it. Maybe those problems also led to his heroin use in his teens. The thread is over on Reddit if you’re interested.

Interesting.  I had been wondering if his heroin use led to something going wrong in his brain.  I have never heard of visual snow or depersonalization.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, BeachGal said:

I’ve been following this case on and off on Reddit (MoscowMurders). Recently, someone tracked down Kohberger’s comments on an old health forum for visual snow and depersonalization.  

What are those?

 

[BeachGal]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Interesting.  I had been wondering if his heroin use led to something going wrong in his brain.  I have never heard of visual snow or depersonalization.

That could be. He might have been using heroin to self medicate too.

 

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

What are those?

 

It's hard to describe with words what VSS looks like but if you search for it in Google's images, you can get an idea. It's a problem in the brain. Some people also think it could be caused by copper toxicity. It's an after effect for some with Long Covid, too. Doesn't always persist but for some it has.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_snow_syndrome

Quote

 

Visual snow syndrome (VSS) is an uncommon neurological condition in which the primary symptom is that affected individuals see persistent flickering white, black, transparent, or coloured dots across the whole visual field. Other common symptoms are palinopsia, enhanced entoptic phenomena, photophobia, and headaches. The condition is typically always present and has no known cure, as viable treatments are still under research. Migraine and tinnitus are common comorbidities and are both associated with a more severe presentation of the syndrome.

The cause of the syndrome is unclear. The underlying mechanism is believed to involve excessive excitability of neurons in the right lingual gyrus and left anterior lobe of cerebellum. Another hypothesis proposes that visual snow syndrome could be a type of thalamocortical dysrhythmia and may involve the thalamic reticular nucleus (TRN). A failure of inhibitory action from the TRN to the thalamus may be the underlying cause for inability to suppress excitatory sensory information. Research has been limited due to issues of case identification and diagnosis, the latter now largely addressed, and the limited size of any studied cohort. Initial functional brain imaging research suggests visual snow is a brain disorder.

 

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depersonalization-derealization-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20352911 

Quote

 

Depersonalization-derealization disorder occurs when you persistently or repeatedly have the feeling that you're observing yourself from outside your body or you have a sense that things around you aren't real, or both. Feelings of depersonalization and derealization can be very disturbing and may feel like you're living in a dream.

Many people have a passing experience of depersonalization or derealization at some point. But when these feelings keep occurring or never completely go away and interfere with your ability to function, it's considered depersonalization-derealization disorder. This disorder is more common in people who've had traumatic experiences.

Depersonalization-derealization disorder can be severe and may interfere with relationships, work and other daily activities. The main treatment for depersonalization-derealization disorder is talk therapy (psychotherapy), although sometimes medications also are used.

 

I wonder if higher doses of a good quality B6 could help with depersonalization-derealization since it's been shown to help with anxiety and depression in some people. It would have to be carefully monitored.

I also think getting an omega 3 index test and working to get that into a healthy range could be helpful since the brain especially really benefits if it is. Most people are not in a healthy range but it's pretty easy to change. The brain takes about two years to change with supplementation from what I've read a few years ago. Not sure if that's still true but maybe.

People with VSS and DPDR are not inclined to murder others, though. Something else was probably going on with Kohberger.

Edited January 8, 2023 by BeachGal