Help me figure out K and first grade LA!

[Jessieeee]

Hi all,

In September my children will be K and First Grade aged.

My current Jr K has recently started the revised mcguffey primer and my K the first, just as an idea of where their reading level is, obviously they will be a little further into it by September. I'm not sure how everyone elses uses the Mcguffeys but they do copywork  from it to practice spellings and narration. Very simple and easy. 

Although, as they will soon be First Grade and K, I think it is time to add in a grammar program, probably from September. I really want it to be something they can do together as they are close in age just to make my life easier. I have been looking at FLL, it looks very sweet with the rhymes to memorize, but I've read a few comments that their littles found it too repetitive  and didn't like doing it? Does anyone have any thoughts on it, or any other recommendations that will go nicely with their readers? I'm also open to more charlotte masony ones like Cottage Press, I can be persuaded about either approach to grammar. 🙂

(They obviously do free reading too, beginner readers for the Jr K, easier books for K, whatever they want to attempt really - the mcguffeys are just for school as an easy way to ensure they are making progress!). 

[Jessieeee]

(Oh and we do handwriting practice too - so I don't need that to be part of whatever curriculum we go for. I think that is everything that should be covered!). 

[VictoriaLovesABiscuit]

I think FLL will be fine. If your children do well with Mcguffeys, then I'd say they won't struggle with FLL. There are no frills, it is mostly done orally, but like you said the memorization are for sweet rhymes. Perfect for first grade & k. It is mastery based, so you can skip some lessons if you don't think they need them. There is enough variety, picture lessons, memorization, copywork etc. It is simple, effective and will make your LA more rounded in addition to your mcguffeys.

I've never heard of cottage press so can't offer any advice there. 

[Foofaraw]

I vote cottage press primer in 2nd grade, after you more phonics/reading fluency in first. (Coincidentally what I’m doing 🧐)

[BusyMom5]

I just do basic grammar concepts within copy work, not as an additional subject at this age.  For example after they copy the sentence,  have them underline the first letter of a sentence and the punctuation mark.  Talk about it.  The next week look for nouns or verbs, proper nouns, adjectives, etc.  

[Jessieeee]

Thank you all.

Their reading fluency is pretty good. They can both read harder texts than what they are reading in their mcguffeys, but because of the copywork, spelling etc it takes longer to work through it. 

I point out punctuation, when a capital letter is to be used etc in their copywork. They are both good readers and writers. When it comes to nouns etc, I feel my own school education really let me down, I am not confident in it. So I really feel the need to follow something for grammar. 

Perhaps FLL or cottage press when they are second and first grade then. Although I think they could handle it from September at first & K. 

[Elizabeth86]

Just my 2 cents. When mine are in K and 1st I only do phonics and handwriting. So far my kids have mastered phonics by then, but if not I'd just stick to phonics until they are reading well. In second grade we haven't needed phonics and that is when we start first language lessons 1, writing with ease 1 and spelling.

[Jessieeee]

Thanks Elizabeth, I would say my current K say has mastered phonics. She does pretty well with writing too. She enjoys writing short stories of her own accord, gets a lot of the spelling right (Which I thank copywork for!).  She is currently reading Charlie and the great glass escalator for fun and doesn't need any help with it. She's read quite a few Roald Dahl books independently over the past few months. I sometimes ask her to read them to me, and she is not having any trouble. She narrates/comprehends well. 

My current Pre-K is reading sentences like 'A cat sees the nest, and can get the eggs.' , so definitely a beginner reader. I was thinking by September her reading will have improved, but obviously take it at their pace and there is no guarantee . Some ones we go through quite quickly and others have more time spent on them! She enjoys writing simple sentences, a lot of words spelt phonetically at this point, understands capital letters, periods, commas etc. Her child-led writing always begins with a capital letter and ends in a . ? or !. 

I have no idea what their reading level is, but I would say above average. (My will-be first grader will be doing K math in the fall and will-be K will be doing preschool, so not advanced in everything incase anyone thinks I'm boasting. They just seem to have a strength in LA. Or at least in my opinion, I have no idea what they'd be doing in school. I try to focus on what is next for them rather than in school they would be doing X.). 

I think my eldest is very ready for grammar, going in depth and understanding the English language more and I think my youngest could handle it. Maybe it would be better to either do grammar separately or wait a year. I was kind of hoping adding grammar might help slow the pace of our readers too, if they carry on at their current pace, they'll be done with the mcguffeys by the end of elementary school, apparently they are meant to last until towards the end of high school. 

[Stoppingby]

They have a gentle grammar program that goes with the McGuffey readers called Eclectic Foundations. It has poetry, and some grammar. They use the words from the readers to introduce parts of speech. And I believe they give you a six week trial! 
They have all different levels...

You could check that out.

[Jessieeee]

Thank you, I haven't heard of that, love the idea of something that goes with the books! It looks great, I think we'll give it a go!

[AngelaR]

We’re a Charlotte Mason-y family. We tried FLL with my 2nd grade daughter and K/1st grade son, and frankly, we all hated it.  Except the poems to memorize.  I tried WWE 1 with my 2nd grader and she was just dreadfully bored. We just dropped FLL with no replacements;  tried ELTL with the 2nd grader, and didn’t love it either. I’m currently also considering Cottege Press Primer 2 or IEW or Writing and Rhetoric.  Still trying to make up my mind. 

[Ting Tang]

I’m thinking about Cottage Press now, too, but for my 2nd grader. I’m torn on level one or two. I love how the philosophy of CM is explained, but I’m still hesitant to trust the process, particularly with spelling. Primer spends a little time. My daughter had a pretty strong phonics and reading year in 1st, and I’m wondering if level one isn’t enough. I can see why you might consider it for grade 1. The copy work does look a bit long? I have no clue what I’m doing. I’m all over the place with thoughts for next year! 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Ting Tang

[AnneGG]

We did Rod & Staff English 2 in first grade with no problems. I thought it was gentle and we completed most of it orally. We did not do every exercise; there was a lot of practice!

We did not care for FLL, but we may circle back to it later. I’ve looked at CP but we also use TGTB so it seems like over kill atm. 

[Ting Tang]

55 minutes ago, AnneGG said:

We did Rod & Staff English 2 in first grade with no problems. I thought it was gentle and we completed most of it orally. We did not do every exercise; there was a lot of practice!

We did not care for FLL, but we may circle back to it later. I’ve looked at CP but we also use TGTB so it seems like over kill atm. 

We did Abeka for 1st grade, and sometimes the 2nd grade curriculums I look at seem a bit light.  I'm also looking at MCT. What a contrast. Ugh. Don't know what to do for my four kiddos!

[AnneGG]

2 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

We did Abeka for 1st grade, and sometimes the 2nd grade curriculums I look at seem a bit light.  I'm also looking at MCT. What a contrast. Ugh. Don't know what to do for my four kiddos!

You’ve got this! You may have to “try on” lots of options until you find the “right fit.” 

[Ting Tang]

1 hour ago, AnneGG said:

You’ve got this! You may have to “try on” lots of options until you find the “right fit.” 

Thank you! My problem is every philosophy seems to sound good, and I don’t know what direction to go. I did read for CP they do want you to have a separate phonics and spelling curriculum. And I think handwriting would be important, too. 

[HomeAgain]

5 hours ago, Ting Tang said:

I’m thinking about Cottage Press now, too, but for my 2nd grader. I’m torn on level one or two. I love how the philosophy of CM is explained, but I’m still hesitant to trust the process, particularly with spelling. Primer spends a little time. My daughter had a pretty strong phonics and reading year in 1st, and I’m wondering if level one isn’t enough. I can see why you might consider it for grade 1. The copy work does look a bit long? I have no clue what I’m doing. I’m all over the place with thoughts for next year! 

I had to bring in a thought here.  DS didn't use Cottage Press - he used English Lessons Through Literature and Reading & Spelling Through Literature.  However, you don't have to do anything as it is written.  ELTL used to have two pieces of copywork each lesson (3x a week).  DS did *one* piece 3x a week in second grade, and for much of the year he did not finish them.  I would cap each piece at a point of success.  His first was one sentence.  It gradually went up to four sentences.  By the end of the year he was writing summaries independently.  Not a lot of them, but he could write down his thoughts easily.

I am glad I didn't force the copywork issue to what the book had for lessons.  He wasn't ready for it at the beginning of the year.  By going slow and steady he was able to feel the improvement instead of letting his work slide because he was overwhelmed by it.

[Green Bean]

Ting- when I started, I made a list of all the philosophies and what they said then looked the list over to see which one looked the most like what I wanted my kids’ education to be like. I kept in mind my own east coast and overseas schooling plus DH UK experiences then chose the path closest to that to start with.

Yes, since then I’ve dabbled in pretty much ALL the ways cause I’m a Curious Bird and at times/seasons we needed different things/approaches for different/all the kids.

I would encourage you to stop looking at specific curriculum for a while and make your own list of what appeals to you about different approaches and most importantly what fits YOU as a teacher. Your ideas may be different for each kid and that is okay.

Make a list of what your final goals are for each area. What do you want to focus most of your effort on? Be realistic; after all there is only one of you and many of the kids.

 

[Ting Tang]

48 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

I had to bring in a thought here.  DS didn't use Cottage Press - he used English Lessons Through Literature and Reading & Spelling Through Literature.  However, you don't have to do anything as it is written.  ELTL used to have two pieces of copywork each lesson (3x a week).  DS did *one* piece 3x a week in second grade, and for much of the year he did not finish them.  I would cap each piece at a point of success.  His first was one sentence.  It gradually went up to four sentences.  By the end of the year he was writing summaries independently.  Not a lot of them, but he could write down his thoughts easily.

I am glad I didn't force the copywork issue to what the book had for lessons.  He wasn't ready for it at the beginning of the year.  By going slow and steady he was able to feel the improvement instead of letting his work slide because he was overwhelmed by it.

Thank you so much for sharing!  I can understand needing to build up the stamina.  Also, with CP, they children just copy the passage above their writing lines in Primar One (2nd-3rd).  In Primer Two, it looks like they need to copy from their reading passages.  The rest looks gentle enough.  I think that is excellent yours was able to gradually increase to the point of writing summaries independently in second grade!  

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by Ting Tang

[Ting Tang]

47 minutes ago, Green Bean said:

Ting- when I started, I made a list of all the philosophies and what they said then looked the list over to see which one looked the most like what I wanted my kids’ education to be like. I kept in mind my own east coast and overseas schooling plus DH UK experiences then chose the path closest to that to start with.

Yes, since then I’ve dabbled in pretty much ALL the ways cause I’m a Curious Bird and at times/seasons we needed different things/approaches for different/all the kids.

I would encourage you to stop looking at specific curriculum for a while and make your own list of what appeals to you about different approaches and most importantly what fits YOU as a teacher. Your ideas may be different for each kid and that is okay.

Make a list of what your final goals are for each area. What do you want to focus most of your effort on? Be realistic; after all there is only one of you and many of the kids.

 

I need to sit down and do that.  When I felt overwhelmed with our Memoria Press materials, I started to learn more about the CM method.  Last year, I had taken some quiz that told me what my style was, and classical got the most points.  I love the CM philosophy of raising children, and when I read about how spelling and grammar are taught, I can see how that could work, too.  But it seems like a leap of faith at the same time since I learned more traditionally. Regardless of what I am looking at, I do feel like everything has so many pieces or I need to find those extra pieces.   Memoria Press 2nd grade is in the running and possibly along with MCT or Rod and Staff.  Cottage Press looks neat, too.  For now, I want to focus on language arts and math for all of them, but there is that pesky science and history.  And there are four of them, so I do need to be realistic.  I am going to really sort through my thoughts after this week when our year is officially over! Thank you so much. 🙂