Tell me more about SWR

[Servant4Christ]

I've researched this program thoroughly over the last year and really like it and am considering it for my youngers. It uses a very different method than what most people I know IRL have even heard of so they look at me like I've got two heads when I try to discuss it with them. Lol. I guess what I'd like to know is: Have you used it? How long did you use it? At what grade levels/ages? And with how many children? I also wonder how many of those who use this actually stick with it and what do the children think of the program?

[Zoo Keeper]

PeterPan used it with one of her children (who had some learning difficulties), and her thoughts on using it may be helpful.

I researched SWR and WRTR a while back when one of mine was seemingly stuck and just not moving forward in reading/spelling/writing, and her thoughts on both programs kept popping up.

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/search/?&q="SWR"&author=PeterPan&search_and_or=and

^ I did a search with her username and "SWR"

Happy reading! 

 

[Servant4Christ]

Thanks. I don't think mine have any disabilities, but the research on Spalding and OG seem pretty solid and teaching true phonics without the combination of sight words just seems right. It's certainly not how I learned nor how I taught Oldest, but it seems better if that makes sense. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Zoo Keeper said:

^ I did a search with her username and "SWR"

I guess I'm famous once people are google searching the boards with my name. 😄 But no seriously, that's how I learned and it's awesome that you're teaching others! 🙂

42 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

Thanks. I don't think mine have any disabilities

They don't need to have disabilities to use SWR. In fact it's just the opposite, that it's a better choice if they *don't* have SLD Reading/dyslexia. For ADHD, it's a crapshoot, a toss up. 

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

It uses a very different method than what most people I know IRL have even heard of so they look at me like I've got two heads when I try to discuss it with them. Lol.

That's ok. 

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

I also wonder how many of those who use this actually stick with it and what do the children think of the program?

Well SWR used to be VERY popular when my dd was young. This was before AAR/AAS was written. If you want open and go but still with a solid foundation, AAS would do very nicely. AAS is a highly structured program with a slow pace, so it's not ideal for a dc who can or wants to go faster. However just in general, the AAS took over where SWR left off. No learning curve, open and go, adorable, easy to use, it's a logical choice. I own AAS 1-6 btw and used it with my dd as a 2nd run through for spelling during VT (vision therapy) when my dd was 12. 

You can look at AAS vs. SWR and you'll be able to predict which is going to give you the tools you need to be successful with your kids. Do you want fully scripted, open and go lessons, or do you LIKE winging it and creating your own games and lessons? 

1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

Have you used it? How long did you use it? At what grade levels/ages? And with how many children?

I began with WRTR, moved over to SWR, took some forays, and ended up using SWR (along with many other things) with my dd for years. She was NOT a natural speller, so we had to work much harder than the average bear to get to the same place. Zero regrets on using SWR. AAS might have been fine from the beginning but it came out late. Her glitch was her developmental vision issues, which had resulted in terrible visual memory. So we were working our butts off to compensate for problems that needed therapy, sigh. Once we had the vision therapy, we did 1-6 of AAS, more dictation, and finally stopped working on spelling around 7th gr. 

My ds is diagnoed with many things. I taught him to read using Barton and now we're using SWR in some non-traditional ways to work on spelling. He has significant language issues that have affected his understanding of spelling, the parts of words, etc. Spelling is FINALLY clicking a bit for him, but he's also diagnosed dyslexic. No program would be perfect, and SWR is a flexible tool that I already have to help him make progress. We are NOT using it as written at all. 

I do have a Quick & Dirty Guide to SWR on lulu and you can use it to get up to speed. If you want flexibility and like making your own lesson plans, SWR is a good tool. If you want fully scripted, excellent instruction, get AAS and be done with it. People burn out TRYING TOO HARD. Many kids do not need this level of instruction but pick up the patterns quite naturally. Don't do more than your kids need.

[Servant4Christ]

@PeterPan I don't mind SWR not being completely open and go, but I want to make sure it's complete if that makes sense. The other program I thought about is R&S which is more like what I used with Oldest (CLE), but definitely not the same method as SWR. I'm used to programs that have children match pictures to the beginning sounds, practice left to right, cut and paste for fine motor skills, ect. Does SWR give guidance on what and when to do these things, too? 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Servant4Christ

[Ellie]

The author of SWR was originally a Spalding teacher (Spalding is the Method; Writing Road to Reading is the manual). She first wrote a "handbook" to teach Spalding, which is superfluous, since there is, you know, already a handbook;; it's called the Writing Road to Reading. 🙂

I think SWR, like other spinoffs of Spalding, make things more difficult. I have watched people's faces turn white when they read through SWR. o_0

The fourth edition of WRTR is the one I recommend. It's simple and straightforward: teach the phonograms that begin with circles (scripts for this); teach the phonograms that begin with lines (ditto); do oral and written drills daily (instructions on how to do that); when the dc know the first 54 phonograms, begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List (script for the beginning words, but after that you just do the same thing, so no script is needed). Each day you pick up where you left off the day before. Open and go.

[sweet2ndchance]

3 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

I'm used to programs that have children match pictures to the beginning sounds, practice left to right, cut and paste for fine motor skills, ect. Does SWR give guidance on what and when to do these things, too? 

Not PeterPan but I've also used SWR since its hay day in the early 2000s. I still have all my SWR and still refer to it but I'm not using it with my only homeschooling kiddo left currently. It's just not a good fit for him right now. I grew up in a school district that taught Spalding and even got to meet Romalda Spalding herself when I was about 10 years old.

As to the things mentioned in the quote above, no and maybe a little bit yes. SWR does give guidance on when to work on segmenting and beginning sounds and such but it is much more organic than doing worksheets with matching. You are guided to play oral word games with young child and beginners to work on beginning sounds, medial sounds and ending sounds. Left and right is touched on when learning to write letters but I wouldn't say it's a heavily practiced skill unless you make it that way. Fine motor skills are discussed and practiced but I don't remember cut and paste activities specifically being mentioned. However, none of these things are integral parts of the lessons, they are activities you work on either before beginning the spelling lists or weave in as needed.

If you are looking for little activities like this woven into the lessons, AAR/AAS may be the better fit for you. It has lots of little activities like that built in to the lessons themselves. If you are ok with coming up with activities and implementing these things yourself, SWR could be a good fit.

[Servant4Christ]

1 hour ago, Ellie said:

The author of SWR was originally a Spalding teacher (Spalding is the Method; Writing Road to Reading is the manual). She first wrote a "handbook" to teach Spalding, which is superfluous, since there is, you know, already a handbook;; it's called the Writing Road to Reading. 🙂

I think SWR, like other spinoffs of Spalding, make things more difficult. I have watched people's faces turn white when they read through SWR. o_0

The fourth edition of WRTR is the one I recommend. It's simple and straightforward: teach the phonograms that begin with circles (scripts for this); teach the phonograms that begin with lines (ditto); do oral and written drills daily (instructions on how to do that); when the dc know the first 54 phonograms, begin teaching the words in the Extended Ayres List (script for the beginning words, but after that you just do the same thing, so no script is needed). Each day you pick up where you left off the day before. Open and go.

Thanks Ellie! I've read many of your posts over the last 2-3 years endorsing Spalding which is actually how I found out about SWR to begin with. I thought most of the posts I read said that SWR was easier to implement than The Writing Road to Reading but maybe that has to do with different editions. 🤷‍♀️ I'll check my library to see if the fourth edition is available so I can see for myself. Other than being a true phonics program, I really appreciate that SWR makes it easy to avoid the whole ball and stick manuscript that seems to be the favored penmanship in most curriculums.

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

Thanks Ellie! I've read many of your posts over the last 2-3 years endorsing Spalding which is actually how I found out about SWR to begin with. I thought most of the posts I read said that SWR was easier to implement than The Writing Road to Reading but maybe that has to do with different editions. 🤷‍♀️ I'll check my library to see if the fourth edition is available so I can see for myself. Other than being a true phonics program, I really appreciate that SWR makes it easy to avoid the whole ball and stick manuscript that seems to be the favored penmanship in most curriculums.

Yeah, I can't imagine how anything could be easier than Spalding. One manual, one set of phonogram cards, spelling notebook for child, the end 🙂

Also, I would not skip the manuscript writing ("ball and stick" is the term that D'Nealian came up with to promote its own penmanship instruction, in an effort to make manuscript seem less valuable. It is valuable. Children learn manuscript and directionality, and it's what they're used to seeing in every.single.book or document; when they are fluent, they learn to connect the letters.)

[Green Bean]

Definitely take a look at AAR/AAS. There is no learning curve to use these, just open the teacher's book and off you go.

AAR for the 4 levels w/ Reading Interactive Kit (the physcial tiles) will run you close to $700, though. I just priced it for my youngest.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Green Bean

[Ellie]

3 hours ago, Green Bean said:

AAR for the 4 levels w/ Reading Interactive Kit (the physcial tiles) will run you close to $700, though. I just priced it for my youngest.

And that's one of the reasons Spalding is such a good choice: everything you need for less than $50. 🙂

[Servant4Christ]

10 hours ago, Ellie said:

Yeah, I can't imagine how anything could be easier than Spalding. One manual, one set of phonogram cards, spelling notebook for child, the end 🙂

Also, I would not skip the manuscript writing ("ball and stick" is the term that D'Nealian came up with to promote its own penmanship instruction, in an effort to make manuscript seem less valuable. It is valuable. Children learn manuscript and directionality, and it's what they're used to seeing in every.single.book or document; when they are fluent, they learn to connect the letters.)

I actually did not know "ball and stick"  was a known term back when I called it that. It's just what it looked like to me and I didn't know another word for that font. I had never seen it before putting Oldest in a Pre-K class at our church (before deciding we would definitely homeschool). I personally learned D'Nealian manuscript and then D'Nealian cursive in school. When I taught Oldest to read and write, we used CLE which uses the ball and stick font and eventually I had to change/modify it because Oldest just flat couldn't do it. Seriously. As hard as he tried, it was never even close to legible. D'Nealian was easier for him because each letter was almost always one fluid movement. He learned to read ball and stick while writing D'Nealian. He also knows how to read cursive, but cannot write it from memory. It's been on the back burner for a bit, but we're working on that now. I haven't decided yet if I'll teach manuscript or cursive first with my youngers, but they will absolutely learn both!

[Servant4Christ]

12 hours ago, Green Bean said:

Definitely take a look at AAR/AAS. There is no learning curve to use these, just open the teacher's book and off you go.

AAR for the 4 levels w/ Reading Interactive Kit (the physcial tiles) will run you close to $700, though. I just priced it for my youngest.

I looked at this and honestly that much color would be very distracting for my boys.

[Clarita]

8 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

I looked at this and honestly that much color would be very distracting for my boys.

If you get a curriculum with no bells and whistles you can still buy the "storybooks" for AAR separately. For our family those stories are magic, my kid will read them on his own. 

[Servant4Christ]

31 minutes ago, Clarita said:

If you get a curriculum with no bells and whistles you can still buy the "storybooks" for AAR separately. For our family those stories are magic, my kid will read them on his own. 

Good point. I'll go back and take a closer look. Thanks!

[PeterPan]

On 3/15/2022 at 7:22 PM, Servant4Christ said:

Other than being a true phonics program, I really appreciate that SWR makes it easy to avoid the whole ball and stick manuscript that seems to be the favored penmanship in most curriculums.

This is not a good reason to choose between reading programs. 

On 3/15/2022 at 2:19 PM, Servant4Christ said:

I'm used to programs that have children match pictures to the beginning sounds, practice left to right, cut and paste for fine motor skills, ect. Does SWR give guidance on what and when to do these things, too? 

You're not grasping what it is. It's merely a word list (I'm oversimplifying, there are sample sentences, which I do like and some notes, sure), obtuse instrctions on how to spell through words, and enrichment activities. It's not any of this K5/preschool stuff you're wanting. If you want cute, get AAR. If you want a program drawn up by a professionally trained educator, something that will be thorough, get AAR. SWR is hack. You can make it work, but it goes back to the rugged days of homeschooling where people bragged about how much they wrote and did on their own. Zero lesson plans, zero cuteness. Go find some sample pages and see. What you're describing is AAR. 

I have the readers for AAR btw and they're adorable. If you like them, why not just get AAR and use the writing program of your choice? You need to separate those two questions because there is zero reason they should be joined. You can use ANY writing approach with ANY reading approach. You need to choose a curriculum that fits where your kids are, something that gives you the tools you need to connect with them, something that is practical for you in your situation. 

SWR is ideal for people who like to wing it, people who don't want to be boxed in with scripted lesson plans, people who want a tool they can use to teach multiple levels from one book. It's ideal for that. If you're wanting cute worksheets, activities, structure, lesson plans, get AAR. AAR is AWESOME, was written by someone in the education field (she teaches at a college), is seriously solid, and is highly organized.

Edited March 17, 2022 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

13 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

As hard as he tried, it was never even close to legible. D'Nealian was easier for him because each letter was almost always one fluid movement. He learned to read ball and stick while writing D'Nealian. He also knows how to read cursive, but cannot write it from memory. It's been on the back burner for a bit, but we're working on that now. I haven't decided yet if I'll teach manuscript or cursive first with my youngers, but they will absolutely learn both!

You could be blaming the curriculum (or your instruction) for something that is inherent to your kids. It's only in hindsight or as we teach others that we realize that it WASN'T US. It probably wasn't even the curriculum. Your dc could have some developmental vision issues, poor visual memory, ADHD, low working memory, an SLD, any number of reasons why it didn't click in spite of normal, reasonable instruction.

I had one kid for whom some things were oddly hard. I had another kid for whom things were impossible. There is a difference, and sometimes the hard but not impossible is harder to teach because they might not get an SLD label and you don't get tidy explanations. You just think the problem is YOU or that if you had a basement full of curriculum (like me) that it would magically go better.

If you've tried reasonable instruction, the problem is probably with the kid, not you or your teaching, sorry. And you can try lots of curricula and shop and research till you're blue, but sometimes it's more helpful to get evals, find out what the real issue is, and then teach in line with that better information. It's why I demanded evals when my ds was starting k5, because I could tell I was going to need more information to work with him well. Sometimes the issue is NOT YOU, not the curriculum, and you need to be released from that guilt. 

I don't know, maybe that's preaching to the choir and you've already thought this through. 

[sweet2ndchance]

This thread got me thinking that ds seems to have turned a corner recently with reading (just like his older brother did at the same age (9yo)). So I dragged out my SWR and Wise Guide, tested him to see where he'd place and he shocked me with what he could answer now! And he wants to learn more lol! So we are going to give SWR a trial run. I'm really hoping he's ready for it this time and we can just stick with it. I really do like the program and it is very similar to how I was taught growing up which probably explains why I like it lol.

I will agree with @PeterPan that SWR is obtuse. I've also seen what @Ellie has, where people turn white in the face just trying to grapple with the shear volume of information just thrown at you in the manuals. The pages of the manuals are written very much in the "wall of text" style and difficult to read. She takes entire paragraphs to say what could have been said in a simple bullet point outline.

It is an older curriculum, it's only open and go if you (and your kids) don't mind dry instruction. If you want to "bring it to life" and make things fun and interesting, it's going to be all on you just as it was for all homeschool parents in pretty much all subjects back in the day. Personally, I enjoy making lessons and now that I only have one left homeschooling, I can make my own lessons and worksheets and whatever else I want to my heart's delight. I definitely did not tweak the program as much when I had a house full of kids. But lots of things were different by necessity when I had a house full of kids.

Once upon a time, most people would have advised you to attend a seminar to be able to effectively teach SWR. And I do agree that it might be necessary if you are coming into SWR/WRTR from a completely different style of teaching reading and spelling. I never attend a seminar. But I did go to school that taught WRTR/Spalding so I had enough background that nothing was really new to me. Figuring out how to organize lessons and teach them to my homeschooled children rather than try to recreate the public school WRTR experience was the hardest part for me. My oldest was my guinea pig, as are most oldest children, so he got the worst of it, lol. He also simply was not ready for anything like WRTR/SWR or any reading program (because I think we really did try every reading program available back in the early 2000s when he was in elementary school). SWR went swimmingly for my younger kids in first grade. They were all done with SWR by 4th grade. But my oldest, and now my youngest, both just were not ready for it in early elementary school.

I can definitely see how "too colorful" would be a distraction for some kids, especially little boys. Price is the deciding factor for me. If I were still in the position I was when my oldest kids were little and we had an educational stipend to spend on curriculum, I might be able to justify the cost of AAR. No, I know I would have bought AAR when we were receiving the stipend if it were around back then. But alas, I am in a different situation now and I simply cannot justify spending so much on curriculum when we simply do not have that kind of money to spend on it. It simply is not within our reach to spend, as a poster above noted, $700 total on a reading curriculum, even if it is spread out over time. I realize that AAR is definitely worth the price tag to have everything done for you and lovely hardback, full color readers and everything is open and go. But simply put, I don't have the money to spend on it and no amount of cutting corners to try to make it happen will put it within reach for us.

So, with my youngest, I am going to be diving back in to SWR for at least a few weeks to see what happens. I am tweaking it a lot to make it work for us. Some hard core SWR/WRTR followers would call it sacrilege but I have no problem with making the changes we need to make it work. I do agree with Peterpan that AAR seems to be more inline with what you are looking for if you want the worksheets and such. SWR is simply two manuals, one with the word lists and one with tons of pedagogy information presented in a very, I can't think of a better word than obtuse manner. SWR might work for you but you are going to be coming up with a lot of things yourself.

I don't mean to discourage you and I really didn't mean to write a book lol, but I just wanted to give a little more insight from someone who has been through the entire program several times with several different students.

[PeterPan]

AAR will have excellent resale value, making the final cost lower. I wouldn't hestitate to buy it for one dc if it's a good fit. Check their return policy, but that should factor in as well. If you can buy it, try for a month, and return if it's not a good fit, that's another helpful thing. 

Time is worth money.

[Servant4Christ]

@PeterPan I think you misunderstood me. I said I am used to that type of program, not that it is the kind of program I am looking for. I was trying to find out if there are pointers listed in SWR on how/when to teach those concepts that most programs just throw a worksheet at. I have watched many videos on how others use SWR and think, "Wow, I could do that. It's a different approach, but it just seems so right." I don't mind bringing a curriculum to life. The ability to use a font I like is just a bonus because modifying other curriculums isn't impossible, but it can be a annoying. I love the idea of teaching multiple children from one book, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at it, as well. Money is definitely a factor, too. No stipends here. I only recently found out some states actually have that. I am on a set homeschool budget every year and AAR is not anywhere within it. Lol. I have looked into WRTR, LRTL, SWR, LOE, and AAR. Of those, SWR looks the most appealing so far. I've also considered R&S, which is not true phonics approach but it's similar to how I learned so I know I could easily teach it. I am not just looking at Pre-K and kinder. I am thinking forward to first grade and trying to set up Pre-K/kinder accordingly if this makes sense. I already have the R&S first grade TMs and a friend was nice enough to offer me her copy of SWR and Wise Guide so I can really sit down and read through and pray about which would be a better fit for us. I've also placed a hold on some other resources through the local library including WRTR @Ellie 

[sweet2ndchance]

I think I may have misunderstood you too. Sorry about that. If you are not looking for worksheets and want something more organic then SWR may be perfect for you. The suggestions it does give on those things are there but they are rather thin in my opinion. They can be really dry and boring as well. But googling the skill you are looking for can give you tons of ideas. Teachers Pay Teachers has lots of fun stuff that can work with SWR or WRTR, sometimes for free. Pinterest is always a wealth of ideas.

I just finished cutting out a phonogram review game I made for ds. I'm also currently working on a Boom card "I have, Who has" type game for phonograms. I enjoy doing these types of things. It is fun and relaxing to me. Plus I can usually rope dh into doing some of the cutting with me when there is a lot of it like for a card game. Lol! Ds loves almost anything that I can turn into a card game. Or somehow incorporate a Minecraft theme lol!