Is there a math program like "All About Reading"?

[cabercro]

I recently started Level 1 of AAR with my 4 year old and from what I can tell I think it's going to be a really good fit, both for her and for me. I'd like to start more purposeful math instruction with her in the summer or fall. Is there a math curriculum that's structured similarly to All About Reading?

 

A little bit of background: my husband and I are both teachers and DD will almost certainly go to our schools with us. There's a lot we love about our district (most notably, the chance for her to be in a dual language program), but the math and reading instruction are... well... what you'd expect from a run-of-the-mill public school. Obviously, I'm going to go at her pace and follow her lead, but I'd like to introduce the big reading and math concepts at home before she encounters them at school to prevent any bad habits or misunderstandings. In my daydreams of homeschooling, I loved the idea of getting a set of C-rods, using Education Unboxed videos and Miquon, and doing lots of exploratory math. But with working full time, I'm realizing we'll really need an open-and-go curriculum if math is going to get done.

 

With that said, here's what's working well for us with All About Reading, and thus what I think I'm looking for in a math curriculum:

* Solid conceptual teaching... I teach middle school ELA and have had some Orton Gillingham-based training, so I knew what to look for conceptully in a reading program. But I'm not totally sure what constitutes "good math teaching" (though I suspect it's similar... learning the concepts and 'whys' instead of just memorizing)
* A balance of games/hands on teaching and more straightforward work... the predictable variety in AAR is probably what I like most right now. I like how each lesson is a mix of 3-4 different activities (instead of me having to cobble together a game or random app or search for extra practice problems). I don't need anything crazy elaborate, but DD thrives on the more imaginative games... feeding the monster her review words, etc. 
* Clear lessons with ongoing review... I like their structure of working for 20 minutes and not feeling pressured to finish a lesson in a day. I really, really like the review box. On days where I can't work with her but she really wants to do a "reading lesson", DH or grandma can pull out the review box and play a game with her current cards.

 

RightStart piqued my interest because of all the games, but I don't know much about how the program is truly structured, plus it feels like a LOT (sort of like how Logic of English seemed way more intense to me than AAR). Singapore feels like what I think "good conceptual teaching" is supposed to look like, but is it mostly workbook based? Is there a script like in AAR? Would I be left to find my own games to add? Math with Confidence seems to check a lot of boxes, and I like the few Kate Snow webinars I've watched, but I haven't heard much about it. And I'm sure there are lots of others that I'm missing.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated! 🙂

[countrymum]

I really like RightStart. We have used A-F. New material introduced in logical chunks and seems to always move to a new tipic at just the right time. There is alot of build in review. It is scripted for the teacher, bit you can totally look at the objectives listed at the top of the lesson and teach it your own way. There are fewer lessons than a school year which gives you the freedom linger on an old lesson or spend some days just playing games to practice facts. For my kids there is not enough plain fact drill (we likely don't play the games enough) so I bought CalcuLadders to fill this in. A feels a bit random compared to the other levels, but it is really an exploration introduction to numbers. RightStart has great costumer service and will help you with any questions you have. I have asked them about various problems my kids have had and they always have good suggestions. Do get the 2nd edition if you go with this.

I tried Math with Confidence with my k and 3rd grade (3rd was a pilot) students this year and ended up going back to RightStart. I was trying for something quicker and it was not. I really like the sequence in RightStart better. Math with Confidence K seemed to go too fast at first with not enough review. RightStart was a better sequence and pace even though RightStart ends up ahead at the end of the year?

I really like the Facts that Stick books from Kate Snow and my Sis in Law teaches at a small school and likes the Math with Confidence series there. 

You may also like BJU math or Miquion. Just for more options.

Whatever you do please do not push a 4 year old, taking 2 years with a K book is fine At this point!

Edited March 13, 2022 by countrymum

[Clarita]

36 minutes ago, cabercro said:

Singapore feels like what I think "good conceptual teaching" is supposed to look like, but is it mostly workbook based? Is there a script like in AAR?

I can only speak for kindergarten level of Singapore. Singapore has a much looser script than AAR. It just tells you key words and phrases to use. The hands on/games part is trickier in Singapore. It does give you hands on activities and games but those are in the home instructor's guide or in Earlybird kindergarten in a small box at the bottom of the textbook.  Definitely, if you didn't look for it or didn't get the guide it would be purely workbook stuff and it wouldn't be as glaring that you totally missed a piece of it. 

Unlike AAR you do have to get some extra manipulatives yourself for some of the hands on stuff. The hands on games stuff to me actually teach concepts and let kids explore the topic that we are doing. They aren't just a different way of doing flashcards. There isn't explicit review throughout the curriculum. There is only review in that you will use some concepts again in the next level of concept. Like to add you will review counting, or you review counting again because you are learning how to use a calendar. It isn't explicit though so for instance we went over shapes in one chapter and for the rest of kindergarten never mentioned them again.

I can't really compare to other math programs because we started with it and it absolutely jives with me and my kids. The lack of explicit review doesn't bother me because we are a STEM family and use a lot of math concepts in our daily life so my kids get review that way.  

Edited March 13, 2022 by Clarita
typo

[HomeAgain]

I would check out these:
MEP - clear, built in review, teacher's guide, not overwhelming, best if done with a small set of tools handy: c-rods, number cards, a ruler, a printed balance scale, and base ten blocks should be about it.  I think we did add in a homemade Allie The Alligator (less than/more than) and her "water bar", but that was for fun. There are no real games, but there are activities in the teacher's guide and puzzles. Reception year is gentle and fun, year 1 starts really working with numbers.  When ds used this program we took the copymasters version of the puzzles for each day and either did it directly on that or with hands on materials only.  The workbook was saved for the practice activities.

Miquon- can be in any order you like, done best with c-rods handy, and the separate guides (First Grade Diary and Annotations) help you structure the lessons. Education Unboxed is good for extending or presenting a lesson in a different way, but having a set of tools on hand is best.  Our tools were empty boxes, number cards, rods, and a placemat.

CSMP - you must print this in color, BUT, it's fun, c-rod based, and has a clear guide.  There are little storybooks to go with as well.

 

 

[Green Bean]

Take a look at Math With Confidence by Kate Snow.

[wisdomandtreasures]

RightStart. Shudder. I wanted to love it. Almost every lesson ended with my boy confused, and both of us in tears. If you're someone who just enjoys math and has a deep understanding of it, it could work for you. But as someone who limped (or crawled) along in math through school with no help other than an annoyed teach occasionally telling me to pay more attention, it was a disaster. 

It is scripted. The descriptions of how to teach can lead to a lot of confusion, though.  For example when adding two-digit numbers, say 37+25, she'd have you break it down so it's 37+20 then 57+5. To me that makes sense but to my kid, saying "37+25 is 57" first then adding a "and 5 more is 62" got all swirled around in his head and he'd give up. Once he finally started to understand, we'd get to the next lesson and it would be all about money. Or symmetry using geoboards, or making multiplication tables using stacks of number cards, or addition with numbers under 10 so no carrying was needed. We wouldn't pick up two-digit addition for several more lessons (and each lesson was supposed to be broken up over a couple of days, so it might be two weeks or more before revisiting), and instead of doing it the same way as before, she'd have a whole new way to teach it so 37+25 might turn into 30+20+12 or 50+12 or 30+20+70+5 or the old way of 5+7, carry the 10, then add all the tens, or some other way...

Same with the abacus. If you have the abacus turned this way, one bead represents 1. Flip the abacus over and rotate it and these rows of beads each represent 1, but on the next few rows each bead represents 10, the next 2 rows 100, and the last rows 1000. You slide over 3 beads and then 5 more... That's 8! Wait, it could be 530 or 503 or 350 or 305 or something else depending on which beads I slid around on which rows. Heck, it could even be 2,312! I appreciate having ideas for a few ways to teach a concept up my sleeve in case one doesn't click, but the constant jumping from method to method (while also going from concept to concept with inadequate review) and trying to keep track of which step was part of which method did absolutely nothing to help him.

Also note that the teacher must be working with the child almost the entire time. Fine for an only child or the youngest of several kids with large age gaps. But if you have lots of little ones, good luck finding 40 min-1 hour (10-20 minutes to read the lesson and set up the materials, 15-30 to go through the lesson and practice a bit, then time for games) of quiet/uninterrupted time every day to do this program PER CHILD, especially if you're in a small house with no dedicated space that you can close off from curious siblings who want to play with the mountain of manipulatives.

Speaking of which, the manipulatives are good. I liked using the base 10 cards (like having a cheaper, smaller, portable set of the Math-U-See blocks). But you can buy those and use them with any program instead of using them the way RS says to. The games are good, too. My husband plays those with my son a few times a week and we do CLE as the main math curriculum. I like that because it's scripted, quick, has lots of review (daily flash cards and speed drills, but you can skip the speed drills or do them once a week if your kid is doing well), includes the metric system, and eventually is entirely independent so the instructions are written to the student right in the workbook. You can do a "boring" "old-school" program like CLE, Ray's, or Saxon and get a solid foundation AND add on the games or hands-on projects/life application and not lose your mind trying to make it make sense.

[PeterPan]

11 hours ago, cabercro said:

In my daydreams of homeschooling, I loved the idea of getting a set of C-rods, using Education Unboxed videos and Miquon, and doing lots of exploratory math. But with working full time, I'm realizing we'll really need an open-and-go curriculum if math is going to get done.

When you factor in your student, open/go might look like the Singapore workbooks you're saying you don't want. I agree with @countrymum that BJU might satisfy you in theory. However it's still a lot with a 4 yo.

For something less, what about trying Ronit Bird? Ignore that it says it's for dyscalculia, even though in reality that means it's the math equivalent of OG. 😄 It uses the c-rods you want, brings in games, teaches via conceptual exploration, and can be done in small chunks. I'm suggesting you try her first $10 ebook (Exploring Numbers through Dot Patterns). Ok, I lied, technically you don't use rods in the Dots book. But still you might like it, and of course she expands the concepts to c-rods in her C-rods ebook (also $10).

The ebooks have embedded videos and discrete chapters. If you do one chapter a week, it's quite low prep (5-10 minutes to read the chapter and gather your materials). The games *are* the review and there are no worksheets. At this age you don't need worksheets, mercy. And if you get into it and are like dude, way slow, it might be useful with the kids you teach in school. Or, if you look at Dots and think she's already solid there (basic number sense and add/subtr facts within 10), then jump right in with her c-rods book.

By comparison, my ds (gifted IQ but triple SLDs and ASD) spent a MONTH on each chapter in Dots. 😄 If you buy either Dots or C-Rods and they're not a fit (like maybe she'd enjoy workbooks more!), then you're not out much. And Ronit Bird has a free card game ebook I really like. Her Positive/Negative Turnovers game is just the bomb.

With my dd (no SLDs), we used RightStart. You said you didn't like it, no biggee. Ronit Bird is more thorough conceptually but because it's meant for tutoring it's not really what you'd do for a full curriculum with a nonSLD older dc. But for your situation (4 yo wanting exploration and games, no worksheets) could be brilliant. Her printed books contain cds with her math sudoku, etc. and she has printable boards for her games ebooks on her website. 

[PeterPan]

The other thing to consider here is that not all kids need the same amount of instruction to get to the same place conceptually. If her visualization is strong, she may move beyond manipulatives quickly no matter WHAT curriculum you use. Some kids develop conceptual understanding (thanks to strong visualization skills) in spite of whatever curriculum they were taught with. 

I would say main thing is don't annoy her. 😄 Don't harp on a tool she doesn't need and don't slow her down with "lessons" if she is great when handed a worksheet. Math is so visual that some kids don't fit in molds. Only do what she needs and don't overkill. 

If you end up with a workbook and she's thriving (which she might!), you can always make it pop with Family Math, logic puzzles, Tang living math books, etc. The Tang books would be available through you're library and would be perfect for this age.

[wendyroo]

This sounds exactly like Math with Confidence by Kate Snow (or on Amazon). Our experience is with first grade, so examples I list will be from that level.

* Solid conceptual teaching...
Yes, Math with Confidence really hits the fundamental and works with them in multi-faceted ways until they are firm.

* A balance of games/hands on teaching and more straightforward work... 
I like that I can really tailor Math with Confidence to fit what we need (or can manage) on any given day. There is easy, often oral or whole body review listed every day (practicing left and right, counting by fives while tossing a beam bag back and forth, naming coins, etc), but if time is tight we can skip it, or do the review and then split the lesson over two days. Some days we just play one of the older games rather than moving on to a new lesson.

Each lesson does have a straight forward workbook page - front and back, with the front covering the current lesson and the back being review.

* Clear lessons with ongoing review... 
There is a lot of review...sometimes too much for my daughter. We have ended up skipping some lessons because they were just taking too itty-bitty of steps. She simply did not need one whole lesson introducing circles, and another triangles, etc.

We will not be moving on to Math with Confidence grade 2, because that isn't what my daughter needs next year (and none of the levels would have ever worked for my more mathy older children), but it was exactly what she needed for a while this year.

[cabercro]

Thank you all for your responses!!

I think I'm going to purchase Math With Confidence to look through in more detail. I love the idea of RightStart but with the complexity of the program I just don't think it'll get done reliably in our situation. 

I'm decently mathy myself, and I've done enough digging that I feel I can figure out how to suppliment along the way as needed. The more I think about our situation, my biggest need is a reliable spine that'll lay out the conceptual teaching for me and her. I feel comfortable adding to or condensing as we go, I just need the basics of how to teach it well laid out with a predictable routine.

DD won't start school until fall of 2023, so we still have lots of time to take things at her pace. She's a pretty typically developing, eager-to-please, slightly ahead of schedule kind of kid. She's known her letter sounds for well over a year and has been reliably able to blend for about 6 months. She can count items up to about 30 and does some natural basic subitizing. We've purposefully kept her in a play-based preschool instead of switching her to the district's Pre-K, so 90% of her day is just unstructured play with her friends. Right now she asks to do "lessons" every night, but I've definitely got an eye out to make sure I don't burn her out.

 

So next question...

For those of you who have used Math With Confidence... do you think most the concepts and activities in her Facts that Stick books are/will be in the MwC series? I know she's only released K & 1st so that may not even be applicable yet.

 

[wendyroo]

27 minutes ago, cabercro said:

So next question...

For those of you who have used Math With Confidence... do you think most the concepts and activities in her Facts that Stick books are/will be in the MwC series? I know she's only released K & 1st so that may not even be applicable yet.

 

You should be able to compare the samples to answer this question.

Here is Addition Facts that Stick. It includes a sample with the table of contents listing some of the games, and it includes some samples of game boards.

Here is the Math with Confidence Resource Area. It includes samples, tables of contents, and blackline masters of board games.

[Green Bean]

I think I read Kate saying that if you use MWC, all the Sticks are worked into it.

Her website is great! Poke around.

[goldenecho]

I went out searching for the same thing...nearly exactly, and so many people suggested Right Start Math (I bought it, but our circumstances changed and we ended up sending our kiddo back to public school that year and didn't use it, but looking through it, it really does seem to fit that description). 

[kbutton]

I would put in a small plug for MUS Primer if you change your mind. We used that before Miquon (and then Singapore US Edition, then Math Mammoth--it was smoother than it sounds, lol!). We didn't use any other MUS, but we liked that level.