HS Mom in NC Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, GracieJane said: But the anti-vax, anti-mask thing doesn’t make any sense, I’m not sure when it became a biblical issue? Part of it is conflating cultural/political issues with Christianity. Another part is a certain type of evangelicalism that preaches the health and wealth gospel heresy. Another part is how they interpret an apply end times prophecy to current events. It's the perfect storm. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) I agree that this has been brewing for a long time. And then the perfect storm -- the perfect set of circumstances -- has brought it all to the surface. Religion and politics is nothing new. My understanding is that the early church (the first 300 years) understood that it was their calling to follow Jesus' example of caring for others and even showing self-sacrificial love toward enemies. But soon the church acquired power through politics and decided it was a blessing from God. Even Augustine condoned "just acts" of violence toward others. I think these are things that many, maybe even most Christians held onto lightly during times and more strongly when they felt threatened. Fast forward to modern times, a better understanding of science, the world becoming smaller, technology, and so forth... And the church's culturally-created theological beliefs (vs. Jesus' actual teachings) seemed to not be able to keep up with the times anymore. Out of fear of losing its grasp, it latched onto the "just act" of power through politics, and politicians were of course thrilled to take advantage of the situation in order to secure their own power. I think another part of this is that many churches, in order to justify their sometimes conflicting Scripture interpretations, have long preached that it's okay if things don't always make sense. (God's ways are mysterious.) So Christians then feel okay about cognitive dissonance even in their faith ~ They can hold two opposite beliefs at once and don't think it's a problem. Also, the evolution of a me-centered faith plays into it. On the surface it sounds okay, until you realize that's all the further it ever gets, and you lose site of one of Jesus' key teachings. Anyone can do a nice thing for someone else when they feel like doing it. Jesus showed us that we can and should do nice things for people even when everything in us doesn't want to do it. When it actually feels like a sacrifice. Anyway... Just some thoughts I've had about all of this. We've been really fortunate to be part of a super church that humbly tries to serve the community, especially the most vulnerable. It was online completely for a year or so, and has always followed CDC recommendations. I'd guess that everyone who is able to be vaccinated at the church is fully vaccinated. Our pastor has written a book called The Myth of a Christian Nation that is very good. It gives pretty thorough Scriptural explanations that might be helpful in conversations with Christians who are caught up in Christian nationalism. (If you're lucky enough to ever be a part of a decent conversation like that!) I think the solution (for Christians) is to continue to "live the Gospel" on an individual basis, even with those we disagree with. It feels small, but God's spirit works in processes and out of love, and love is influential... never coercive. (I didn't just make that up -- It was in the sermon this morning. :)) This also lines up with something I read in a blog the other day that I liked: As Christians, we must trust that love is the deepest stream of reality." It's hard. Edited February 23, 2022 by J-rap 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, ktgrok said: I was flabbergasted when I found out that the "Christian Right" political movement was NOT organized around abortion, but around school integration! I mean, wow..makes so much sense when you know, but it's the dirty little secret of the Christian Right. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0011cpr This is fascinating on the origins of anti-abortion. Edited February 21, 2022 by Laura Corin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 12 hours ago, ktgrok said: I was flabbergasted when I found out that the "Christian Right" political movement was NOT organized around abortion, but around school integration! I mean, wow..makes so much sense when you know, but it's the dirty little secret of the Christian Right. Me too! Although I'm pretty sure most conservative evangelicals don't know that history. I think it's discussed in the book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity -- another book on my list! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 15 hours ago, ktgrok said: I was flabbergasted when I found out that the "Christian Right" political movement was NOT organized around abortion, but around school integration! I mean, wow..makes so much sense when you know, but it's the dirty little secret of the Christian Right. Me too! I think the TPTB put that in motion, and very few people in the pews know this. 13 hours ago, J-rap said: I think these are things that many, maybe even most Christians held onto lightly during times and more strongly when they felt threatened. ... I think another part of this is that many churches, in order to justify their sometimes conflicting Scripture interpretations, have long preached that it's okay if things don't always make sense. (God's ways are mysterious.) So Christians then feel okay about cognitive dissonance even in their faith ~ They can hold two opposite beliefs at once and don't think it's a problem. ... I think the solution (for Christians) is to continue to "live the Gospel" on an individual basis, even with those we disagree with. It feels small, but God's spirit works in processes and out of love, and love is influential... never coercive. (I didn't just make that up -- It was in the sermon this morning. :)) This also lines up with something I read in a blog the other day that I liked: As Christians, we must trust that love is the deepest stream of reality." It's hard. The things they hold lightly until something goes wrong are things that I have seen for a long time but haven't always been able to put my finger on. I would see it crop up in really startling ways, but since not everyone felt that way or felt strongly about it, I would avoid what I could, but I didn't feel like it had the potential to make a rift or become so culturally ugly. I really didn't think, for instance, that Christian nationalism even in it's really vague or light forms would line up so strongly with authoritarianism. I just didn't think the *people* that held those views wanted that. I don't think they knew they wanted that. Feeling threatened really was key. The cognitive dissonance thing cracks me up because what resolves their cognitive dissonance is what creates in those of us on this thread, lol! Crazy. 11 hours ago, Laura Corin said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0011cpr This is fascinating on the origins of anti-abortion. This page took me to the podcast page but not a specific episode. Were you meaning to point out a specific episode or the series? 3 hours ago, J-rap said: Me too! Although I'm pretty sure most conservative evangelicals don't know that history. I think it's discussed in the book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity -- another book on my list! I got this for Christmas, but I need to get back to it. If I read slowly, I get impatient or just tired if reading at night. If I read too fast, I feel like I sometimes gloss over details. It's a good book so far. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, J-rap said: Me too! Although I'm pretty sure most conservative evangelicals don't know that history. I think it's discussed in the book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity -- another book on my list! I first learned about it on The Holy Post Podcast I think. 11 hours ago, Laura Corin said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0011cpr This is fascinating on the origins of anti-abortion. When I heard quotes from early fundamentalists and conservative Christians about how Abortion is a private thing, sometimes may happen, not a political issue, etc...it breaks my heart how crazy it's gotten since then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Hopper Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 3 hours ago, J-rap said: Me too! Although I'm pretty sure most conservative evangelicals don't know that history. I think it's discussed in the book White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity -- another book on my list! Thanks for this recommendation, I was able to download the audiobook from my library! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 1 hour ago, kbutton said: This page took me to the podcast page but not a specific episode. Sorry. It's the one called 1000 dolls. I think it's episode 1. The whole series is also interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbutton Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 This is timely: Good Faith Podcast, David French and Curtis Chang: What the heck is a Christian Nationalist? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.