Please Help Me Help My Friend

[MKS]

I had such a good experience here the other day gathering opinions for my thesis (more replies than any other message board! Yay!) that I thought I would return with a more personal issue.

 

A close friend of mine, J, has a six year old daughter, N, who is in p.s. first grade. (N has a August birthday.)

 

N is struggling with reading to such an extent that the school has suggested moving her back to kindergarten. J is struggling with what is best for her daughter.

 

I know N. She is a bright little girl and there is no reason that I can see for failing to teach her to read. N has been evaluated, and no l.d. has turned up.

 

I told J to get me the name of the reading curricululm the school is using, and I would ask around (I'm a PAE grad student). In the meantime, I've been looking on Amazon, and I'm thinking of sending J Reading Pathways and MCP Phonics A.

 

I know J will take anything I tell her very seriously, so I really want to give good advice. (It was me who suggested Spelling Workout, for example.)

 

Any other thoughts or suggestions, please??

 

For some background (long): N is in what is known as a "multi-age" classroom. It's K-2, and the children get the same teacher all three years. J has observed in N's class, and tells me that group work is the standard, and that often the second graders will give N the answers, which are frequently incorrect, just to be done with the assignment. J also observed that the classroom is a hive of activity all the time, and that N has a hard time concentrating.

 

N has been seeing a reading specialist for 30 minutes per day this entire school year, and J reports that she has made great progress. However, there are 14 levels in this school's first grade reading program, and N is on level 7, which is why they are talking about putting her back in K.

 

J has told the school that she just wants what is best for her child, and if that means moving her back, then she'll go along for it. However, she (and I) don't totally understand what, if anything, will be solved if "moving her back" involves staying in the same class with the same teacher and cirricula.

 

Last year, J bought Spelling Workout and afterschooled N in spelling, because this school does that ridiculous "kidspell" b.s. They both loved it, and J reports that now N can spell words that she can barely read.

 

(J herself is grad student and has worked with N a lot on academics, even pre-school, so this is especially baffling for her.)

 

J is currently not working, but, as I said, she is in grad school. She has been looking at other p.s., but is just confused at this point. The waters are further muddied by the fact that we have a mutual friend whose two daughters have excelled at this school, and are both products of this same multi-age teacher.

[MIch elle]

sources and should help if used everyday even if it's only 10 min/book.

 

We liked Bob Books. They were very easy and progressed slowly so the dc felt successful. Lots of short easy readers from the library can do a great deal to help increase reading speed and fluency. Also parent/child reading aloud works well (parent reads one sentence then child).

 

Many libraries have Hooked on Phonics, and that can be used to supplement school too. We liked the easy readers in that program.

 

Based on your assessment, it makes no sense to me to put her back in K.

[mchel210]

When my son was in first they told me they wanted to do the same. I started using Phonogrphics with Reading Reflex. It worked really fast with him. I believe you have to do it every day...and as long as she is consistent I think she would see results very fast. I bought my book at barnes and nobel. They have it at amazon for 12.00 It may be worth a try. When my son was in 3rd the school told me they couldnt teach him to read and started giving him books on tape. So the next year I moved his school. They used a lot of Streck Vaghn, and zaner-blouser work books...along with daily reading only on level....and by Dec. of that year he jumped from a 1st grade reading level to a 5th! I am very happy I didnt hold him back.

 

How close to 6 is your friends dd? Mine just turned 6 but she reads very strong. She is in K in PS...but she missed the cut off. I didnt push to move her up as she is loving the social aspects of K. She is having fun with those kids. I know she enjoys the slower pace right now. I am okay now that I didnt push to move her up. I think 1st may have been a little too much writing even though she is ready for everything else. I guess that could be another arguement to go ahead with letting her go back a grade...if she is on the younger age in her class??? I have no clue really. The kids in our PS in 1st dont read very strong. My dd was reading as strong as many of them when she was 5.

 

I tried HOP but my son hated it and wouldnt sit still. My girls used the dvds from Leap frog...the word factories and such...and they both mastered their sounds and started reading super fast.

[EKS]

I haven't used the reading programs you mentioned, but Reading Reflex is also a good choice for struggling readers.

 

There was one thing that I didn't understand: You said that there are 14 levels in the first grade reading program and the child is only on level 7. As we aren't even halfway through the school year, wouldn't being halfway through the levels be appropriate (7 of 14)? Or are the children expected to take longer to progress through the higher levels?

 

My son was was in a multiage classroom in 1st grade (grades 1-3) with lots of noise and activity and it was a total disaster for him. By the end of that year he knew *less* in the way of reading and math than he did at the end of kindergarten. Later we found out that he has various sensory processing issues (including auditory processing disorder) that made it impossible for him to learn in the noisy classroom. He also has dyslexia.

 

I would say if the child is doing well in everything except for reading (and I understand that reading is huge) that it would probably be best to keep her in 1st grade but continue to give her the extra support with reading, both with the specialist and at home.

[MKS]

N turned 6 in August, which means that she is young for her grade, especially by the new standards.

 

The school has said to J that she is "welcome" to find a new school for N... I personally think that this is a conflict averse way of saying, "Change schools or we're moving her back", and that it has much more to do with NCLB and test scores than what's best for N. But I can be paranoid. (I haven't said any of this to J, BTW. These are just my personal nasty thoughts.)

 

Thank you for your curricula suggestions. They're going on my list.

[MKS]

 

There was one thing that I didn't understand: You said that there are 14 levels in the first grade reading program and the child is only on level 7. As we aren't even halfway through the school year, wouldn't being halfway through the levels be appropriate (7 of 14)? Or are the children expected to take longer to progress through the higher levels?

 

 

 

I didn't get this either. This is why I asked J for the name of the curriculum, so I could help her investigate further.

[MKS]

There is no small classical school, lol, at least not anywhere within 100 miles.

 

I thought the same thing- no spelling must mean whole language, but it turns out that it is a phonics based curriculum. Must just a baaad for N phonics curriculum.

[cillakat]

You might find this interesting.

 

 

2nd Christina. It's whole language in disguise.

 

 

I'd recommend the mom get Sally Shaywitz' book right away (even though dyslexia isn't being discussed at this point afaict). It gives sound evidence for why 'holding her back' is a bad idea on every level.

 

K

[cillakat]

Last year, J bought Spelling Workout and afterschooled N in spelling, because this school does that ridiculous "kidspell" b.s.

 

honestly, spelling workout is among the worst spelling programs I have EVER seen.

 

It'd be helpful to know the name of the program being used.....is the mom working on reading at home with the little girl? What is being recommended for 'homework'?

 

I'd probably get either I See Sam/3R's or _Dancing Bears_ (prometheantrust) simply b/c it's open and go.

 

Another option would be to use Wilson (very parent intensive but great) or HEC Reading Horizons....the home educator CD-Rom version.

 

Something's going on.....either the reading instruction sucks....or the child has a bit of a reading disability (and holding her back is a vvv bad idea)....or a difficult time concentrating/learning in that environement (adhd?, poor fit?, sensory stuff?)....*something* is going on.

 

You mentioned that the testing uncovered no ld's. But what *did* it uncover? Was there a CTOPP done? What were the reading measures used? Was it a full assessment? ie reading measures in addition to IQ and achievement? What did it show?

 

All the best,

K in Atl

mom to a dyslexic/dysgraphic 9 yo who at 6 yo/1st grade was identified as having NO ld's. They were wrong wrong wrong.

[amsunshine]

There are many good phonics programs out there that can be used at home. Read the article Cadam linked. It appears many whole language programs used in public schools these days claim to use phonics, but they are not the "real deal". Phonics needs to be taught in a specific, systematic fashion to be effective. Not many public schools are doing this these days.

 

Tell your friend to try Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons or the Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading. Supplement with Explode the Code workbooks. All of this can easily be done as afterschooling (I'm doing it now with my own dd 5.5 in K). Avoid any formal spelling programs like Spelling Workout, etc., until the child has finished the Explode the Code workbooks.

 

My .02

[MKS]

I read the article... wow. Very sad.

 

(My mom was taught whole language in the sixties and she still can't spell. My aunt [a state-wide award-winning teacher] is forced to teach a whole language curriculum that she hates and can only do phonics when she after school tutors her students that need extra help- for which she does not get paid, she just realizes that whole language doesn't cut it...)

 

I know people who LOOVE Spelling Workout, and others who detest it... it was among my suggestions to J and it happened to be the one that she and N liked the best, and, according to J, it worked very well, despite being presented somewhat out of sequence as far as general language skills are concerned.

 

The weird part about this is that N loves being read to. At least, she did. N knew the alphabet, the sounds each letter made, and how to write her name before K. She could read some sight words as well. J says that her problems lie in the comprehension questions she's given, and her ability to read aloud- blending, specifically.

 

They send homework every night, generally worksheets. J says it takes about five minutes to complete.

 

I haven't seen anything on paper regarding N's testing workup, but I'll tell you this as someone who has known children with ADD/ADHD, LDs, and autism... N seems *very* well adjusted and, if anything, somewhat high-functioning for her age.

 

It is my guess, not having been in the class, that this situation is just a baaad fit for N. It troubles me that the principal has suggested to J that she look around at other schools. It smacks of an abdication of responsibility on his part, at least to me.

 

I am going to call J today, and then email a list of curriculum suggestions, some of mine and the rest from this thread.

 

Thanks to everyone. I'll post an update if anyone's interested.

[ElizabethB]

I agree, whole language or bad phonics program with a lot of sight words.

 

Have the mom watch my spelling lessons--then she should know enough phonics to teach her daughter.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

 

Her daughter could also try to watch my phonics lessons over the Christmas break with Mom if she's smart; they are meant for at least a 2nd grader, but a smart K or 1st grader should be able to watch them.

 

Any good, explicitly taught phonics program should help. Spelling, especially oral spelling, helps cement the phonics being learned in the brain.

 

Blend Phonics is a good free alternative, even better yet, follow on with Webster's Speller! (Then, she'll be reading grade levels ahead instead of behind.)

 

Both are free on Don Potter's website: http://www.donpotter.net/ed.htm

[Laurie4b]

The research is pretty overwhelming that holding children back a grade does not have a good long-term outcome. It looks like it helps part of that first year held back, but the results peter out soon. Worse, in studies of kids who were having the same level of academic struggles, but in which some were "held back" and others moved on (with or without help), the "held back" group was more likely in their middle and high school years to experience all the "baddies": higher drug use, promiscuity, delinquency, and drop out rates. The issue wasn't academic difficulties because those were the same in both groups of kids. The issue, apparently, is the shame factor in being held back.

 

The best case scenario is that a child gets the correct intervention that they need to catch up and that that continues (as opposed to mere social promotion. However, mere social promotion outscores being held back.)

 

When the child was evaluated and "had no LD's", what tests were done?

[Laurie4b]

Kids who I tutor have the same type of "levels" thing at school. I think it is not tied to curriculum but to certain benchmarks that they are shooting for for the "no child left behind" kind of end of grade testing. I may be wrong about that, but I've had some conferences with teachers, and they had specific things they were looking for (like the child can narrate back a story with beginning,middle, and end), rather than something that sounded like "book level 1, 2, etc.)

[MelissaM]

Maybe the principal is making a good suggestion. If the current classroom has no foreseeable change in sight and the dd isn't functioning well within the said classroom then go with a different school/classroom/teacher/grade.

 

We just made the decision to move our ds from first to kindergarten. He was one of the youngest in his class and not handling the work well. Instead of burdening him with extra work we placed him where he can grow successfully at a better pace for him. Yes, ds was upset at first, but there is also a sense of relief.

 

I have no reason to believe that our teacher, guidance counselor, or principal has any agenda against us or our son. They truly feel that he will have more successes than failures in a different classroom. Your friend's situation is probably no different. It's hard not to take things like this personally as a parent, but sometimes our children need to move back. Luckily the stigma is not there like it was 15 years ago.

 

Please note that I'm not necessarily saying that your friend should definitely more her dd to a different school or grade. I'm only suggesting that she look at a different angle.. Maybe moving her daughter back now would save years of struggling later.

 

hth.

[MKS]

I talked to J last night, and here's the update so far.

 

-This school district, for our purposes, District A (which has one elementary school), does not have ANY traditional classrooms, they are all multi-age. I find this interesting, because I know that when a mutual friend started her oldest child in District A five years ago, there were two traditional classrooms and two multi-age classrooms. So now the District A principal's comments are making more sense to me.

 

-School District B (actually the district J and I both graduated from) has two elementaries and no multi-age classrooms at all. Again, I find this interesting because when my cousins started there, six years ago, District B had a mix as well.

J was discussing options with the principal at one of District B's elementaries, and point blank asked her why they had phased out multi-age and the principal wouldn't tell her. J said that she was very polite, and it seemed like she didn't want to say anything bad about District A, but still. J is trying very hard to make an informed and accurate decision about her child, for pity's sake, she deserves to know about all the variables.

 

-J has decided not to put N back in Kindergarten, as all that would change would be her assignments, and J does not think it's the work that's the problem- she thinks the core of the problem is elsewhere. (75% of everything would be the same- teacher, classmates, room, just different work.) Now J says she feels pressured, and thinks the teacher is frustrated and beginning to take her frustrations out on N. For example, N has been going to Reading Recovery for 30 minutes a day, and she loves it. J says it has helped N make a lot of progress in a short time. Unfortunately, Reading Recovery ends January 31. At any rate, on Friday the teacher made N stay in at recess to do "stations", because N had missed stations to go to Reading Recovery. "But I always miss stations to go to Reading Recovery," said N. "Which is why you have to stay in today to do them," said the teacher.

 

??????

 

-J asked for the name of the reading curriculum, and the teacher wouldn't tell her. (See my comments above about District B's principal to know my feelings about this.) N has never brought a book home, just worksheets.

 

-The comments that the teacher has been sending home with N make less sense all the time. First, it was, "N is only reading on level 7-8, and we want her on level 14," so J asked the principal, almost in passing, during their conversation, what level they wanted the students on at the beginning of second grade. "Minimum of 14," said the principal. J talked to the teacher after that, and asked why a 7 at the halfway point of first grade wasn't good enough, and the teacher barked, "I want her at a 14!"

Then, just on Thursday, the teacher sent home a note that said N needs to speed up in reading her sight word flashcards. Well, J has a duplicate set of sight word flashcards at home to work with N, and says that N can't get any faster- she knows them all instantly. This seemed like a big red flag to me.

 

The upshot of all of this is that J is going to send N back to District A after Christmas break so that she can finish Reading Recovery. After that is finished, J is going to pull N. J is unsure right now if she's going to re-enroll N somewhere else right away, or keep N at home for the rest of first grade.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Is there any way this mom can pull this child from this school? Based upon your update, it sounds like the teacher has it in for her. Since there is no escape from this teacher (due to multi-age classroom and having her for several years) and the principal so far is not willing to back up the mom, things will only get worse. From what you describe (level 7 halfway through the year and needs 14 before 2nd grade), this child is on target for her grade, but the teacher wants her numbers to look better, so she is going to bully this little girl until the mom gives her what she wants.

 

If she cannot pull the girl from the school, I would tell her to insist on a meeting with the principal and the teacher and the Reading REcovery teacher to get to the bottom of this. I would also encourage this mom to document all interactions with this teacher to present in this meeting. Does the principal really know how bad the little girl is being treated?

 

If it were my child, I would find a traditional classroom for this child if I could not homeschool her. This multi-age classroom sounds like organized chaos and would be a difficult environment for learning for most kids, but especially for children with any type of sensory issues.

[amsunshine]

Yikes -- the teacher sounds like a nightmare. I hope your friend pulls her child out over winter break. One month of the reading recovery program isn't worth the agony that teacher will put the child through during that time period. Your friend can do just as well, if not better, afterschooling her at home for that month.

[MKS]

Yes, J is going to put her in a traditional classroom, if/when it comes to that. She has discussed this with N and the Reading Recovery teacher, and N is adament that she wants to finish RR. J has given written notice to the school.

 

So, we'll see how this all pans out.

 

I think the teacher is hot mess, for what it's worth. I told J that I'd let the air out her tires, but J is more mature than I am, so she declined.

[Tree House Academy]

Is there any way to put her in a school that just has normal grades? I can't imagine throwing my (young) 5 year old Kindergartener in with 2nd graders that could possibly be (Oct-August birthday) 8 year olds! No way. That is just a stupid thing for a school to do, period!

[Barb_]

Supplement with Explode the Code workbooks.

 

I prefer Explode the Code online for younger students. They do not need to know how to write well in order to use it and it is self-adjusting based on how well or how poorly a child does in any given activity. So it's possible to move quickly through levels or skills already mastered and not get artificially bogged down by the time it takes to write everything out longhand. The subscription includes all 8 books (grades 1-4) and is good for one year. My 7yo went from struggling with Magic Tree House to reading Dick King Smith (RL 3-4) in about 2.5 months.

 

Barb

 

ETA: Link: http://www.explodethecode.com/01_about/

[cillakat]

For example, N has been going to Reading Recovery for 30 minutes a day, and she loves it. J says it has helped N make a lot of progress in a short time.

 

Reading Recovery is a horrible horrible program. It will look for awhile like progress is being made, but since it's a GUIDED/LEVELED reading program and not phonics, she will ceiling out soon and will have learned all of the bad habits associated with Whole Language programs (which is ABSOLUTELY IS)

 

Sorry for the caps, but yes, I was screaming:tongue_smilie:

 

Reading Recovery is just the kind of thing that insures that 40% of the class will be reading below grade level once they hit 4th grade and the classic 'fourth grade slump'

 

This mom needs to seriously get Wilson (not scripted, but fairly inepensive) or Barton (fully scripted but very expensive) and get to it asap. Every day.

 

She also needs to push for testing:

1)IQ testing

2)acheivement testing

3)reading testing.....the CTOPP *and* either the TOWRE or GORT

 

This is critical. She needs it asap so she can get accomodations for her child. Reading Recovery is not an accomodation, it is a sad unfortunate joke.

 

K

[elizam]

N turned 6 in August, which means that she is young for her grade, especially by the new standards.

 

The school has said to J that she is "welcome" to find a new school for N... I personally think that this is a conflict averse way of saying, "Change schools or we're moving her back", and that it has much more to do with NCLB and test scores than what's best for N. But I can be paranoid. (I haven't said any of this to J, BTW. These are just my personal nasty thoughts.)

 

Thank you for your curricula suggestions. They're going on my list.

 

I bolded taht part about what the school says. We had a similar experience when I put my 2nd grader in PS, thinking it might actually be a good thing. Because he was weak in reading, they insisted he had to be set back after two day sof school and he was super nervous to the point of acting like he didn't know anything. They told me he couldn't get Title One help unless he was in first grade (although the school's website states there is a Title One teacher for all the grades). I said I didn't want to do that. They wouldn't test and said they don't believe in dyslexia. Then they told me I was free to take him back out of PS if I wasn't going to put him back in first. I took him out and have never looked back!