11 months after the accident insurance has made my parents an offer

[Scarlett]

We had no idea until yesterday what the policy limits were of the at fault party.  I was so relieved that it was $250K each.  They offered my mom full policy amount.  We (insurance and us) are still trying to gather all the bills together but it looks like she will clear at least $100K for her pain and suffering.  Of course it won't make up for her permanent injuries and the PTSD they both have, but it is certainly a nice chunk of change. 

They only offered my dad $22,500 direct compensation....and as mild as he generally is he was insulted by that offer.  But the adjuster told me there was wiggle room, so they will counter with something.

 

[mommyoffive]

Glad to hear that they will be getting something to pay off the bills and for their pain and suffering.   I am so sorry that this happened to them.   How are they both doing?  

 

[Faith-manor]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

We had no idea until yesterday what the policy limits were of the at fault party.  I was so relieved that it was $250K each.  They offered my mom full policy amount.  We (insurance and us) are still trying to gather all the bills together but it looks like she will clear at least $100K for her pain and suffering.  Of course it won't make up for her permanent injuries and the PTSD they both have, but it is certainly a nice chunk of change. 

They only offered my dad $22,500 direct compensation....and as mild as he generally is he was insulted by that offer.  But the adjuster told me there was wiggle room, so they will counter with something.

 

I was the lesser injured of the two of us in our bad car wreck, but was the driver and had major PTSD. We had an excellent lawyer, by still did not manage to get more than $30,000 for me. The legal system really doesn't recognize soft tissue injuries no PTSD for accident victims. Thankfully, ds got the full amount from their insurance and because it was considered "underinsured", also the full amount on ours. Don't take it as an annuity.

[Scarlett]

34 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Glad to hear that they will be getting something to pay off the bills and for their pain and suffering.   I am so sorry that this happened to them.   How are they both doing?  

 

Thank you for asking.  They are fighters and hanging in there.  My poor little momma's hand won't ever be pain free.  PT has done all they can (6 months of twice a week) and the PT told mom she worries her ring finger will still have to be amputated.  

I am grateful they are alive....but yeah that accident did a real number on them. 

 

[Scarlett]

29 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

I was the lesser injured of the two of us in our bad car wreck, but was the driver and had major PTSD. We had an excellent lawyer, by still did not manage to get more than $30,000 for me. The legal system really doesn't recognize soft tissue injuries no PTSD for accident victims. Thankfully, ds got the full amount from their insurance and because it was considered "underinsured", also the full amount on ours. Don't take it as an annuity.

They have said all along they did not want to get an attorney unless the offer was just impossible to work with. So far that has been a wise decision.

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Thank you for asking.  They are fighters and hanging in there.  My poor little momma's hand won't ever be pain free.  PT has done all they can (6 months of twice a week) and the PT told mom she worries her ring finger will still have to be amputated.  

I am grateful they are alive....but yeah that accident did a real number on them. 

 

Sending some gentle hugs and prayers to your mom and dad.  I am so sorry they have to live in pain.

[Faith-manor]

42 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

They have said all along they did not want to get an attorney unless the offer was just impossible to work with. So far that has been a wise decision.

We had to get an attorney. Neither insurance company would even make an offer so they forced our hand. They knew they would eventually have to cough it up, but since a small subset of folks will not fight and just accept whatever, they push the issue. It didn't cost them anymore to do that, but it cost us 30% of the settlement. Still, ds would not have gotten any decent money without the lawyer. No Fault insurance in Michigan. Worst state in the country for car insurance. You might be fine in OK. I don't think the insurance industry owns your legislature, lock stock and barrel like they do here!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Faith-manor

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

We HD to get an attorney. Neither insurance company would even make an offer so they forced our hand. They new they would eventually have to cough it up, but since a small subset of folks will not fight and just accept whatever, they push the issue. It didn't cost them anymore to do that, but it cost us 30% of the settlement. Still, ds would not have gotten any decent money without the lawyer. No Fault insurance in Michigan. Worst state in the country for car insurance. You might be fine in OK. I don't think the insurance industry owns your legislature, lock stock and barrel like they do here!

So far so good.....I have been on high alert for any shenanigans by Progressive. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

So far so good.....I have been on high alert for any shenanigans by Progressive. 

Hoping for no shenanigans. Working in law, I see sometimes how situations would be if a lawyer was not fighting for the claimant. Some ins companies are notoriously worse than others. (My boss dislikes State Farm…) 

By law, policy limits cannot be revealed until a demand is presented; it is a way to prevent people from just demanding policy limits in every case. It’s fortunate there is a healthy coverage, though I’m sorry about your mom’s permanent injuries. 

[Scarlett]

Just now, Quill said:

Hoping for no shenanigans. Working in law, I see sometimes how situations would be if a lawyer was not fighting for the claimant. Some ins companies are notoriously worse than others. (My boss dislikes State Farm…) 

By law, policy limits cannot be revealed until a demand is presented; it is a way to prevent people from just demanding policy limits in every case. It’s fortunate there is a healthy coverage, though I’m sorry about your mom’s permanent injuries. 

That is so funny….I work in a body shop( the vehicle kind) and SF is by far the easiest to deal with.  Progressive is a nightmare. So maybe property vs personal injury or maybe different states.  For instance I learned that in OK, SF, who paid out 5k each in med pay on my parents policy, does not subrogate the at fault insurance for that payout.  The adjuster told me that is state specific. 

[Carol in Cal.]

Policy limits don't actually limit payout.  What they limit is payout by the insurer.  That is why it is so important not to be underinsured--to avoid becoming the deep pockets in a lawsuit.

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Policy limits don't actually limit payout.  What they limit is payout by the insurer.  That is why it is so important not to be underinsured--to avoid becoming the deep pockets in a lawsuit.

Are you saying my parents could sue the driver personally?  

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

That is so funny….I work in a body shop( the vehicle kind) and SF is by far the easiest to deal with.  Progressive is a nightmare. So maybe property vs personal injury or maybe different states.  For instance I learned that in OK, SF, who paid out 5k each in med pay on my parents policy, does not subrogate the at fault insurance for that payout.  The adjuster told me that is state specific. 

Yeah it is state-specific. I think Florida’s is crazy; they do subrogate the medpay, which seems to me like what’s the point in having medpay then? In MD, my boss is a fan of high PIP and Medpay coverage because it’s less lien built against settlement. One of our clients has $20K in medpay; my boss’ eyes turned into dollar signs, lol. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Are you saying my parents could sue the driver personally?  

Yes, if the at-fault driver has assets. 

[Ausmumof3]

39 minutes ago, Quill said:

Hoping for no shenanigans. Working in law, I see sometimes how situations would be if a lawyer was not fighting for the claimant. Some ins companies are notoriously worse than others. (My boss dislikes State Farm…) 

By law, policy limits cannot be revealed until a demand is presented; it is a way to prevent people from just demanding policy limits in every case. It’s fortunate there is a healthy coverage, though I’m sorry about your mom’s permanent injuries. 

Totally off topic but have you ever watched Fisk?  For some reason every time you mention your work I totally see you as a more stylish Kitty Flanagan!

[Ausmumof3]

And to Scarlett, I’m sorry for hijacking your thread. Sorry that the recovery has been so long.  Glad your Mum is getting paid out and hope things get better for your Dad.

[Carol in Cal.]

19 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Are you saying my parents could sue the driver personally?  

Well, I'm no lawyer, but I think so.  Because really, when they get the offer from the insurer they are getting on his behalf.

I don't know what happens if they settle with the insurer though.  There might be some kind of documentation saying they give up all other claims or something.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes, if the at-fault driver has assets. 

And yes of course we know that is possible…..but my parents are highly unlikely to do that.  

[Annie G]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Are you saying my parents could sue the driver personally?  

Yes, that’s why so many people buy umbrella policies.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

Yes, that’s why so many people buy umbrella policies.

Yes, I know that is a possibility. That don’t want an attorney and hope things can be reasonable.  

[Carol in Cal.]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, I know that is a possibility. That don’t want an attorney and hope things can be reasonable.  

They don't sound reasonable to me.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

They don't sound reasonable to me.  

Really? What part so far doesn’t seem reasonable?

[Annie G]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Yes, I know that is a possibility. That don’t want an attorney and hope things can be reasonable.  

Your parents can decide if the settlement is reasonable to them, and I hope they truly feel the settlement is reasonable. I’d hate for them to feel it’s a fair settlement but have friends badger them to sue for more. I’d also feel bad for them if they felt they should get much more but don’t think they should sue. (Mainly because with lifelong pain and ptsd they might later regret that decision)  

I’m sure they are ready to put this behind them and move forward. Waiting for the settlement has to be stressful!

 

[Carol in Cal.]

42 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Really? What part so far doesn’t seem reasonable?

Permanent injuries?  Kind of low.  

 

[Scarlett]

14 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Permanent injuries?  Kind of low.  

 

Thus why they gave her the full policy limit. How is that unreasonable ? 

[Annie G]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Thus why they gave her the full policy limit. How is that unreasonable ? 

My dad is foolish and only carries the minimum, which is $25,000. That would NOT be an acceptable amount for your mom. (Which is why we harp on him to raise his limits because if he hurts someone he WILL get sued!)

[Scarlett]

My moms bills are substantial. But even if the at fault driver did not have enough insurance, she had underinsured insurance who would have picked up the slack,

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thus why they gave her the full policy limit. How is that unreasonable ? 

Your dad did not get anything for PTSD, and I don’t care what the policy limit is, I think that that amount of money for your Mom for trauma, PTSD, and a permanent loss of function is low.  The policy limit only tells you what the insurance company will pay, not what is actually due.  I think she should have gotten more than she is, but I get that the insurance company won’t pay it.  But that doesn’t  mean she shouldn’t get it.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Scarlett said:

My moms bills are substantial. But even if the at fault driver did not have enough insurance, she had underinsured insurance who would have picked up the slack,

The attny I work for would tap the UIM policy as well, if it’s insufficient. Also, he negotiates liens if the policy limits are low and there’s nowhere else to go. So for example, client was substantially injured in a hit-and-run. Since it was hit and run, the only policy to tap was her own. Her own limits were minimal - $30k. Her medical lien was $48k. Attny negotiated the lien and it was reduced to under $10k. This way there was ~$10k for each interest - client, attny, healthcare. 
 

To me, those are excellent reasons to have an attny on one’s side. 
 

With that said, it is true sometime a person does not get a settlement they “deserve” because there’s simply no avenue for getting it. Like a wrongful death case where the parents got $100k; that was all they could possibly get due to involved parties, but it kind of broke my heart. They lost a precious child due to another’s negligence, but that was all the money that could be tapped. So that is a scenario that could happen. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Well, I'm no lawyer, but I think so.  Because really, when they get the offer from the insurer they are getting on his behalf.

I don't know what happens if they settle with the insurer though.  There might be some kind of documentation saying they give up all other claims or something.

When you settle, you sign a release of all claims, yes. You can’t come back in five years and say, “You know, at the time, I didn’t realize I would never play piano again, so I’m suing now for loss of avocation…” 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Totally off topic but have you ever watched Fisk?  For some reason every time you mention your work I totally see you as a more stylish Kitty Flanagan!

😃 I haven’t seen it but I looked up Kitty Flanagan. 🙂 I don’t think she acts in the US. She’s cute; I accept you imagining me that way! 😄

[Guest]

Oh, and @Scarlett, I also thought I would mention, be careful to uncover ALL the medicals from the hospital visit; there can be “hidden” bills. There can be: ambulance bills, emergency room physicians (separate from hospital), radiology for MRIs, anesthesiologists (separate from hospital). Just advising you to be sure there’s not a $2000 MRI bill floating around that isn’t known yet. 

[Ausmumof3]

9 minutes ago, Quill said:

😃 I haven’t seen it but I looked up Kitty Flanagan. 🙂 I don’t think she acts in the US. She’s cute; I accept you imagining me that way! 😄

She’s also pretty funny!  Glad you’re OK with it.  If Fisk ever comes out in the US you can see.

I learned a while ago she’s actually the daughter of John Flanagan of Ranger’s Apprentice fame - if anyone has 8-12 year old reluctant readers!

[Scarlett]

58 minutes ago, Quill said:

Oh, and @Scarlett, I also thought I would mention, be careful to uncover ALL the medicals from the hospital visit; there can be “hidden” bills. There can be: ambulance bills, emergency room physicians (separate from hospital), radiology for MRIs, anesthesiologists (separate from hospital). Just advising you to be sure there’s not a $2000 MRI bill floating around that isn’t known yet. 

Thanks. This is actually my greatest concern.  I have spent countless hours on the phone looking for bills. For instance I had a terrible time locating my moms second ambulance bill.  I even drove to the hospital.  Well I was there for a mammogram but anyway I wasn’t allowed to go back to records because of Covid.  But a nice receptionist went for me and was gone for a long time….,she came back embarrassed.  She said all my moms records said was ‘transported to St John’s’.  She gave me the name of the most likely ambulance provider. So I drove to their office.   They were closed due to Covid but one man was on site and let me in.  That was kinda creepy….lol.  But he was helpful in a gruff way.  Turns out my mom had given someone her first married name…..a name she hasn’t used in 19 years.

I am hopeful that after 11 months all the bills have been turned in to someone.  Medicare has paid a huge chunk, their supplemental policy has paid a lot and several are sitting there unpaid, some with liens, some not.   

[Scarlett]

7 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Your dad did not get anything for PTSD, and I don’t care what the policy limit is, I think that that amount of money for your Mom for trauma, PTSD, and a permanent loss of function is low.  The policy limit only tells you what the insurance company will pay, not what is actually due.  I think she should have gotten more than she is, but I get that the insurance company won’t pay it.  But that doesn’t  mean she shouldn’t get it.

I don’t know if you think I don’t know what a policy limit means or what….but I do understand it.   What my parents are ‘due’ is subjective.  Who gets to decide that?  And you have to balance what they have lost in the accident with what they would lose in stress fighting to get more from the at fault party.  They aren’t even interested in filing on the UM unless the bills turn out to be more than they first thought.  We are still gathering those numbers.  
 

I agree the number for my dad is low….but it isn’t the final.  They are going to counter.  

Edited October 1, 2021 by Scarlett

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

am hopeful that after 11 months all the bills have been turned in to someone.  Medicare has paid a huge chunk, their supplemental policy has paid a lot and several are sitting there unpaid, some with liens, some not.   

Medicare builds a lien, though. At least, it does here; I’m assuming that’s true throughout the country because it’s federal. 

[Carol in Cal.]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I don’t know if you think I don’t know what a policy limit means or what….but I do understand it.   What my parents are ‘due’ is subjective.  Who gets to decide that?  And you have to balance what they have lost in the accident with what they would lose in stress fighting to get more from the at fault party.  They aren’t even interested in filing on the UM unless the bills turn out to be more than they first thought.  We are still gathering those numbers.  
 

I agree the number for my dad is low….but it isn’t the final.  They are going to counter.  

OK, but consider also that the medical insurers can insist on being reimbursed from the settlement, and you don’t see your parents getting much at all, if anything.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Quill said:

Medicare builds a lien, though. At least, it does here; I’m assuming that’s true throughout the country because it’s federal. 

Yes, they do.  I am just not clear on how much they have paid out for this accident.  And according to Progressive medicare won't tell them until an agreement has been reached.  I can go on mom's portal and  put the dates in and that is probably the amount, but I imagine someone else is going to determine the exact amount that Progressive will have to repay.  In July it seems like it was 31K for mom.

[Scarlett]

26 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

OK, but consider also that the medical insurers can insist on being reimbursed from the settlement, and you don’t see your parents getting much at all, if anything.

What?  My mom's medical bills are just over 100K.  So she will be getting 100-150K.  I consider that to be substantial.  

And the offer for my dad was 22,500 but that as above any medical bills.