Moral luck, intergenerational lack of mobility, genetics, etc. and life outcomes

[Murphy101]

Money absolutely changes things. I know young adults with terrible mental illness who are not homeless and who were able to finish college that is to support with money (which means being able to check that box) and that alone has changed everything. Because money.

Money isn’t just about the money either.  Money often means network.  Money means they have people in their lives who know lawyers, know doctors, know people who work in or at various places that can make... not cheats but... exceptions and give more leniency than someone who doesn’t have a personal connection to that network.

Those two things make up for a huge amount of life difference for 2 people with nearly the same issues but different looking outcomes.

Another reason I’ve noticed is some people, especially lower incomes and trauma abuse backgrounds, struggle is the lack of ability to grasp linear story telling. They genuinely can’t grasp that act A plus act B is a major factor in a result C.  Everything is a result of things done to them and they are just coping badly with each blow as it lands, perpetually surprised that it keeps happening out of no where. I suspect some of this is genetics but also, literally physical brain changes due to unaddressed trauma.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Murphy101

[Carol in Cal.]

21 hours ago, regentrude said:

Yep. There is no realistic way large scale manufacturing is coming back to the US because the American consumer is not willing to pay what it takes to have Americans manufacture run-of-the-mill stuff that folks overseas can produce for a fraction of that cost.
If we ever want to be competetive in manufacturing, it has to be sophisticated, high tech goods that rely on a highly educated work force and a technological edge. We have to produce something the others can't - not low tech consumer goods like clothes or housewares. 

The same people who fall for politicians' promises to bring manufacturing back to the US are the ones who buy made-in-China crap at rock bottom prices from Walmart.

I’m not so sure about this.

I don’t know that transportation is going to remain as cheap as it has been.  Also, strategically, there are seriously important reasons to site some supply chains for crucial medical, food, and energy supplies in the US.  And that includes pretty simple things like antibiotics, vitamins, and masks.  A fully dependent country is a vulnerable one.  

There are privileged people who try to work toward buying in the country as much as possible—it IS expensive but there are products to be had.  I’ve mentioned American Blossom Linens before here, I think—a resurrected fully domestic manufacturer of high quality bedding.  

When China cracked down on Hong Kong dissidents, I tried to figure out how to avoid buying Chinese goods and it was pretty much impossible, but I was glad to find some suppliers that at least reduced the scope of it for me.  I was very glad to see that both the prior and current administrations have encouraged geographical diversification of supply chains to preclude exclusive use of Chinese products.  That distinct from getting manufacturing back into this country, but it’s still important strategically.

[LucyStoner]

18 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, the bolded is exactly what I see coming through the law firm. It’s never cut-and-dry, with one violent (male) bully and one innocent, meek female victim. Well, so far it has never been that. 

Victims of controlling domestic violence are often the very least able to afford legal counsel and the legal system on the whole does a colossally shitty job of protecting them.  Unless you are working for a non-profit or a firm with a lot of pro-bono clients, I would urge you not to generalize what you see in this firm to the issue of controlling DV at all.  

My SIL, who survived my brother’s controlling abuse is neither a very pleasant or stable person.  She’s a maddeningly ineffective parent and I’ve learned that she doesn’t, as a general rule, speak the truth about a lot of things.  She doesn’t come across as meek or “innocent” but she most certainly wasn’t the abuser in that relationship. None of this changes the reality of what my brother did to her.  I had been hopeful back when she finally was able to divorce him that things would improve for her and in one key way they have (she doesn’t live with someone who beats the shit out of her in jealous rages) but happy ending it is not. 

It’s also really common for primary aggressors to pretend to be the primary target.  Also, primary targets may look to be engaging in mutual violence when they were acting in their own defense or the defense of their children.  One of the main times I saw my younger sibling stand up to his ex-husband was when my exBIL would start bullying the kids.  My exBIL would then say that being yelled at to stop bullying the kids was him being abused by my sibling.  🤦‍♀️  I know these are anecdotes but I’ve read, studied and seen enough to know that the same basic patterns play out without any surprises every damn day in way too many families.   

Edited May 23, 2021 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

On 5/21/2021 at 8:22 PM, Xahm said:

This situational vs controlling domestic violence affects a lot. My husband, as a police officer, sees tons of domestic violence. Laws have been made in our state, and I presume many states, to protect victims of controlling domestic violence. They require him to arrest someone when he sees evidence of domestic violence, with no regard to whether the victim wants to press charges. In some circumstances, this is probably a life-saver. In a lot of the cases he sees, however, there's not one controlling, abusive partner. Instead, there are two or more adults (often finances require multi generational homes or roommates) who are crammed in small spaces with lots of stress about bills and no good childhood examples of how to deal with stress in a healthy way. Lots of phone/key/purse snatching, plates breaking, doors slamming, yelling, slapping, etc in which all parties are actively both aggressors and victims. It's up to the officer to decide who is going to jail because the law says someone has to. Of course, when you have a crappy job and can barely make ends meet, missing a shift because you are in jail means you lose that crappy job and so the situation, and the situational violence, are just likely to get worse. 

It’s also just hard to tell what is going on when you show up at a domestic disturbance.  My SIL had enough police pamphlets about DV to wallpaper her house.  My older brother was definitely guilty of controlling DV.  Quite often though the police would take my brother to the hospital.  The hospital would then bounce him after a day or so.  He was also arrested a couple of times.  Even with medical records (he left my SIL with a permanently disabled hand after several surgeries) and binders of documentation, my brother managed to get the only charges that they ever filed dropped and the family court was less than helpful in the end.  
 

The police were the most proactive and helpful when push came to shove- CPS, the court, the DA and the school were all astoundingly ineffective and unhelpful in the end.  While I wished the police had arrested him more often, they did call CPS and on several occasions did things that very much helped my SIL.  
 

Different but intense situation with my other brother whose ex-husband was abusive that is still not fully resolved in family court but time and time again agencies that should have helped ended up hurting more.  In this situation, the abuser has been very good at convincing key people that he’s been wronged and my younger brother is crazy.  The court has generally made the right call but social service agencies have been dangerously wrong about this situation.  

Edited May 23, 2021 by LucyStoner

[Katy]

8 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I’m not so sure about this.

I don’t know that transportation is going to remain as cheap as it has been.  Also, strategically, there are seriously important reasons to site some supply chains for crucial medical, food, and energy supplies in the US.  And that includes pretty simple things like antibiotics, vitamins, and masks.  A fully dependent country is a vulnerable one.  

There are privileged people who try to work toward buying in the country as much as possible—it IS expensive but there are products to be had.  I’ve mentioned American Blossom Linens before here, I think—a resurrected fully domestic manufacturer of high quality bedding.  

When China cracked down on Hong Kong dissidents, I tried to figure out how to avoid buying Chinese goods and it was pretty much impossible, but I was glad to find some suppliers that at least reduced the scope of it for me.  I was very glad to see that both the prior and current administrations have encouraged geographical diversification of supply chains to preclude exclusive use of Chinese products.  That distinct from getting manufacturing back into this country, but it’s still important strategically.

Yes, I agree. DH started as an Industrial Engineer, and he has one old resume from a decade ago online somewhere. He still gets calls from headhunters several times a week because so many companies need help. I’m not saying the exact same businesses that were outsourced will come back, but certainly things that are a national security risk to have the entire supply chain outsourced will.  

[LucyStoner]

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Edited May 23, 2021 by LucyStoner