Language Arts Long-Term Plan

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

DS8 is a fluent reader & writer currently wrapping up 2nd grade. He’s previously completed MCT Island, AAS 1-4, & cursive. He participates in NaNoWriMo each year & this year we combined two of IEW’s Level A theme books for composition. I’m working on sketching out our path going forward & would like feedback from anyone who is familiar with the programs I’m looking at. Currently I’m thinking...

• 3rd: Complete IEW Level A Theme Books Units 5-7, NaNoWriMo, MCT Town (GT/PT/Prac T), AAS 5, Typing
• 4th: MCT Town (CE I/BP/Lit) NaNoWriMo, possibly BW Arrows x1-2, AAS 6
• 5th: MCT Voyage, NaNoWriMo, BW Boomerang x1, AAS 7
• 6th: IEW Ancient History (cusp of Level A/B), NaNoWriMo, BW Boomerang x1
• 7th: IEW Middle Ages (Level B), NaNoWriMo, Lit from HO Level 2 Middle Ages, BW Boomerang x2
• 8th: IEW Modern (Level B), NaNoWriMo, Lit from HO Level 2 Early Modern, BW Boomerang x2
• 9th: MCT Magic Lens I, NaNoWriMo, History-Based Lit from HO Level 2 Modern, BW Boomerang x4
• 10th: MCT Magic Lens II, NaNoWriMo, History-Based Lit from HO Level III US History
• 11th: MCT Magic Lens III, NaNoWriMo 
• 12th: Wrap up MCT / DS’ choice

* All BW Boomerangs would be for books already on our literature list for history or the given level of MCT

Should we try to fit the MCT Literature level in during Middle School?
We could do Voyage across 5th/6th & Literature across 7th/8th. 

Any other tweaks? Anything you’d add? Drop? 

All of this is subject to change, of course... most likely it will... but I like to have a path in mind regardless. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[domestic_engineer]

re:  magic lens books

My DC is a grammar-y kid who did island, town, and voyage levels without much trouble.  DC and I worked through ML1 last year (for 7th grade) and just finished working through ML3 (for 8th grade) .  I’m not done processing all my thoughts about ML3, but my initial reaction upon finishing the book was that there wasn’t much new material between ML1 and ML3. We’re starting the 4Practice3 book, and I’m hoping that will be worth our time.  I was disappointed with 4Practice1 because the sentences were just a bit over-the-top with the vocabulary and all the sentences seemed to be about Ancient Rome. Book 3, however, seems to be sentences from literature, so that has me hopeful for a more enjoyable practice book.

I’m not positive how I would do it different the next time around for a grammar-y kid, but perhaps just buy ML3 as the instructional book but work through 4Practice1, 4Practice2, amd 4Practice 3 each year?!?!?  However the vocabulary could be troublesome/distracting, especially if you’re not using Word Within a Word concurrently, like how we ended up being asynchronous.

also - I skipped the literature level (and tried and failed with another curriculum) because I figured the series was highly respected before that level came out. I also skipped ML2 because some online provider (maybe G3?) skips it. They thought ML2 was too repetitive.  I don’t doubt it. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

6 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

I’m not positive how I would do it different the next time around for a grammar-y kid, but perhaps just buy ML3 as the instructional book but work through 4Practice1, 4Practice2, amd 4Practice 3 each year?!?!?  However the vocabulary could be troublesome/distracting, especially if you’re not using Word Within a Word concurrently, like how we ended up being asynchronous.

We never use MCT alone, so in order to stay synchronized we’d likely need to continue using the levels across two years as we have in the past. If the levels become repetitive then I’d rather do that than endlessly shell out for only marginally different material. 

He tends to be ready for the grammar, poetics, & literature selections before he can tackle the vocabulary or more challenging writing assignments. I’m unsure about CE for next year, for example, as it appears to be such a large jump from Building Language.

[MamaSprout]

Lol. You are planning too far ahead. Worry about the next couple years at most. Accelerated students change too much too quickly for this kind of planning. Take a deep breath and enjoy your kiddos.

FWIW we started with MCT and went off in some totally different directions as new materials became available and other opportunities happened.

[domestic_engineer]

1 hour ago, Shoes+Ships+SealingWax said:

If the levels become repetitive then I’d rather do that than endlessly shell out for only marginally different material. 

He tends to be ready for the grammar, poetics, & literature selections before he can tackle the vocabulary or more challenging writing assignments. I’m unsure about CE for next year, for example, as it appears to be such a large jump from Building Language.

Rather than doing repetitive levels, I’d suggest considering using the time for something else (deeper lit studies, creative writing, or something not LA related at all) .... not buying other material. 
 

If he’s ready for the MCT literature selections*, I’d guess that he’d be ready for Caesar’s English. There aren’t a huge quantity of words to learn in each lesson of CE.   But you’re right that it’s quite the jump from Building Languages. 
 

And FWIW, we didn’t really use the Writing strand of MCT.

*MCT literature selections - I’m not sure that I agree with their leveling. I like the Mud trilogy and the APM level. But after that .... eh .... I thought it was too advanced for my kid’s age. (This might be more of a problem with me though. I didn’t have the time to preread the classic books, nor did I read them as part of my education.)

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

33 minutes ago, domestic_engineer said:

If he’s ready for the MCT literature selections*, I’d guess that he’d be ready for Caesar’s English. There aren’t a huge quantity of words to learn in each lesson of CE.   But you’re right that it’s quite the jump from Building Languages. 
 

*MCT literature selections - I’m not sure that I agree with their leveling. I like the Mud trilogy and the APM level. But after that .... eh .... I thought it was too advanced for my kid’s age. (This might be more of a problem with me though. I didn’t have the time to preread the classic books, nor did I read them as part of my education.)

I’m not sure on the literature, but am taking a “wait & see” approach. He loved Alice, Hobbit, & The Sword in the Stone as read-alouds in 1st. This year he’s enjoyed the first trio of George’s Secret Key & NatGeo adaptations of 1,001 Arabian Nights & Norse Mythology. He couldn’t read these himself, but he enjoys listening to them. 

[SeaConquest]

2 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Lol. You are planning too far ahead. Worry about the next couple years at most. Accelerated students change too much too quickly for this kind of planning. Take a deep breath and enjoy your kiddos.

FWIW we started with MCT and went off in some totally different directions as new materials became available and other opportunities happened.

I am a huge planner too, and know that I had something similar when Sacha was in second grade (I don't do this with Ronen -- have learned my lesson!), but MamaSprout is right. This would be waaaaaaay too repetitive for my kid and very history focused. I am all for reading the Great Books, and perennial favorites, but there is also a lot of amazing contemporary lit that comes out each year. Also, Sacha decides to veer in different directions -- one semester he wants Shakespeare, then Dystopian Lit, then Science Fiction, then Russian Lit, etc. No way to really plan what specific direction he might take. I just know that he will take some kind of lit and some kind of composition. We haven't done any MCT grammar since 4th grade because there are just only so many hours in the day, and at a certain point, if your kid is writing decent enough essays, in advanced classes, but has a different focus (in my kid's case -- a STEM focus), you have to prioritize for their mental health. If he wasn't doing AP Computer Science A in a semester, two AoPS math courses per year, and aiming for Olympiad level science, then sure, we could focus more on diagramming sentences. But, I also know that the kid wants to learn Russian in high school, so that is going to teach him a ton about grammar (similar grammatical structure to Latin), so yeah... time and priorities.

So, if planning 10 years out makes me you feel better (as it does me -- an anxiety thing for me), go for it, but just prepared to chuck it all and I mean all. BTDT. 🙂      

[MamaSprout]

36 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I am a huge planner too, and know that I had something similar when Sacha was in second grade (I don't do this with Ronen -- have learned my lesson!), but MamaSprout is right. This would be waaaaaaay too repetitive for my kid and very history focused. I am all for reading the Great Books, and perennial favorites, but there is also a lot of amazing contemporary lit that comes out each year. Also, Sacha decides to veer in different directions -- one semester he wants Shakespeare, then Dystopian Lit, then Science Fiction, then Russian Lit, etc. No way to really plan what specific direction he might take. I just know that he will take some kind of lit and some kind of composition. We haven't done any MCT grammar since 4th grade because there are just only so many hours in the day, and at a certain point, if your kid is writing decent enough essays, in advanced classes, but has a different focus (in my kid's case -- a STEM focus), you have to prioritize for their mental health. If he wasn't doing AP Computer Science A in a semester, two AoPS math courses per year, and aiming for Olympiad level science, then sure, we could focus more on diagramming sentences. But, I also know that the kid wants to learn Russian in high school, so that is going to teach him a ton about grammar (similar grammatical structure to Latin), so yeah... time and priorities.

So, if planning 10 years out makes me you feel better (as it does me -- an anxiety thing for me), go for it, but just prepared to chuck it all and I mean all. BTDT. 🙂      

And to be clear- I have ALWAYS had a long term brain dump going on a google docs sheet- and have gone as far as scheduling email reminders for myself so I don't forget to sign up for opportunities that a hear about, sometimes years down the road.

Heck, I've been known to map out a curriculum plan on the back of a napkin for other people's children. Just don't let it distract you for the kids you have in front of you right now.

 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

40 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

So, if planning 10 years out makes me you feel better (as it does me -- an anxiety thing for me), go for it, but just prepared to chuck it all and I mean all. BTDT. 🙂

Yes, this is me. I have absolutely no qualms with my plans changing completely, but not having developed them & used the process to organize my thoughts in this way would leave me very, very anxious. 

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

We haven't done any MCT grammar since 4th grade because there are just only so many hours in the day, and at a certain point, if your kid is writing decent enough essays, in advanced classes, but has a different focus (in my kid's case -- a STEM focus), you have to prioritize for their mental health.

In digging through the upper levels of MCT, it certainly helps to see that the Literature Level alone is more direct grammar & vocabulary instruction than I ever received, and that was perfectly adequate to complete AP classes in high school & enjoy classical literature in my free time as an adult (though I’ll grant I occasionally find it arduous). 

If we take 2-3yrs per level because we are spending the bulk of our time working on other things & that’s as far as we ever get, I’d be content. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Shoes+Ships+SealingWax

[Shoes+Ships+SealingWax]

14 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

And to be clear- I have ALWAYS had a long term brain dump going on a google docs sheet- and have gone as far as scheduling email reminders for myself so I don't forget to sign up for opportunities that a hear about, sometimes years down the road.

Heck, I've been known to map out a curriculum plan on the back of a napkin for other people's children. Just don't let it distract you for the kids you have in front of you right now.

 

Yes, that is all this is. My major brain dump. It’s been a couple of years since I’ve hashed things out, so it was overdue. 

[Not_a_Number]

I am in awe of all this planning!! I barely know what we’re doing next year.

I do think that these things that fulfill a deep need can be surprisingly fruitful. Like, I spend too much time on forums. I really do. But over the years, I’ve learned that it’s not wasted time: it’s how my brain gets exposed to a breadth of experience that I can then use as food for creativity.

So perhaps this is fulfilling something that actually benefits the OP... probably not because these exact plans will come to fruition, but for some other reason! 

Sorry, I hope that’s not too off-topic 🙂 . I don’t use curriculum, so no thoughts on that.

[Clemsondana]

Just a comment because others haven't used it - I'm on my second pass through MCT level 4 right now. It's kind of weird in that the vocab is much less intense than what is on either side of it.  But, the writing strand at this level is interesting.  It's really focused on reading good writing and there are lots of different essays and examples from literature.  It is also not at all focused on Roman history - the vocab words focus on common literature words rather than Latin roots, for instance.  Intriguingly, both of my kids like the vocab from this program.  

This year my 6th grader is just doing MCT as English.  There's a lot going on in the adjustment to middle school, and this is a good fit right now. My high schooler is doing the last 2 levels over the course of the 4 years of high school while also taking co-op lit classes.  That may change - we may skip co-op one year and read on our own, or add dual enrollment.  But, only doing 1 MCT book at a time, only twice/week, is enough to get through them all in high school and kiddo recognized how much is being learned.  The grammar is a bit repetitive, and we found level 5 to be the most annoying thus far (we're on 6).  So many verb things.  But, it's not a huge time commitment, at this pace it's every-other-year in high school, and it's been fine. 

[Jackie]

Another vote for not getting too attached to plans. I’ve made and thrown out so many plans for language arts that it’s completely ridiculous. We’ve now done the first three levels of MCT, and while DD and I both started out loving it, we’re both pretty over it now. I don’t know whether we’ll go back and try the upper levels some time in the future or not, but my plans to continue using it throughout are definitely scrapped. 

I owned a couple of the History Odyssey Level 2 guides a while back and sold them. Not enough literature and a rather dry approach for us.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Jackie said:

We’ve now done the first three levels of MCT, and while DD and I both started out loving it, we’re both pretty over it now.

How come? I hear such an interesting mix of stuff about MCT! 

[Jackie]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

How come? I hear such an interesting mix of stuff about MCT! 

There is a *lot* of repetition between levels, especially in the grammar and poetics books. It is to the degree where a grammar book might add about two new things and otherwise be a complete repeat of the previous year’s information. Plus, there are 100 sentences a year for analysis, which get tiring after a while, especially when there is barely anything new level after level. I’ve said before that repetition kills my kid, and this definitely wore on her quickly.

Island level is fun. Several of the books are told in a lighthearted story format, and they’re silly, which is always a bonus for my kid. Town level drops some of the story format. Voyage level leaves it behind entirely. 

DD still really enjoyed the vocabulary portion. It’s one of her things. But she took Lukeion’s word roots class after doing the first three levels of MCT, and I think that probably rounds her out for Latin and Greek roots pretty well. Continuing on, she’s more likely to enjoy etymology or linguistics classes.

[8filltheheart]

In addition to what everyone else has said, it is very doubtful that an advanced student needs anything close to that type of controlled/dictated step by step progression.  At some pt, the focus will typically move to rhetoric, analysis, and research that is on par with college level texts.   

I am not a long-term planner, but I am a long-term homeschooler.  I have seen an 8 yo who was just doing simple copywork assignments in 3rd grade writing essays in 6th to doing a complex sr thesis on Shakespeare in 12th.  She was capable of elevated analytical work at a young age.  We didn't need to focus on how to write, vocabulary, etc.   We used books like Horner's Rhetoric in the Classical Tradition for discussing how to strengthen her writing, but literature selections are where we went deep.