Winter Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 So this year was our second year using a blend of Moving Beyond The Page and some other curriculums and I was pretty unhappy with the results. Math In Focus, Story of the World and Real Science Odyssey are both great and we will continue to use them in the future regardless but MBTP was a nightmare. Almost all the topics throughout the year have been glossed over rather than giving core in-depth knowledge. About 50% of the time, they expect the parent to do extensive research on topics with no direction on where to look or what to look for. There are a lot of busy activities that don't really accomplish much in the way of learning. Also, it takes forever to do which means it's cutting into our work schedules. Thus, we've made the decision to take a more hands off approach so our son can learn to work on his own without our constant need to be there for instruction and look at some online charter schools but what I'm finding is there isn't a whole lot of reviews for most of them and what we have found online feels more like paid advertisement than review so I'm hoping to get some help with people who might be knowledgable in this area. We're headed into 4th grade for 21-22 and right now we're leaning towards Bridgeway Academy's Total Care Live Blended program but looking over their site, it looks like they use a lot of easily gotten curriculums through various publishers so the fee (some $4595) I expect would be for the overly exceptional teaching... but I can't find any reviews on it. Like, none. Thing is, if I'm dumping that kind of money per year into a school, I want to make sure we're getting the best education possible. Basically at this point we're looking for a complete curriculum that requires a lot less of our time putting it together, doing research of our own, etc., secular and leaning heavily towards accreditation being a very important thing. Online classes would be a major plus to get him to engage with other students and a live teacher as well. We liked the idea of the Live Blended option with Bridgeway because it's a once a week per subject class and the rest he would have to do on his own, but we're still in the dark about how good the instruction actually is. Other places I've been looking is so far are Wolsey Hall Oxford, Laurel Springs and Forest Trail Academy. Of those, I've only heard of WHO prior to my research tonight I've been doing. Any other recommendations of what I should be looking for here? My head is a bit spun again and I'm really getting worn out with picking new curriculums every year trying to find the right fit. Thanks, all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Based on your description, I would look to see if your state has an agreement with Connections Academy. If they do, it would be free bc it would be ps. https://www.connectionsacademy.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 5 hours ago, 8filltheheart said: Based on your description, I would look to see if your state has an agreement with Connections Academy. If they do, it would be free bc it would be ps. https://www.connectionsacademy.com/ I actually looked into this before. The schools they offer in PA are scoring in the lower 50%, maths was even under 14% which doesn't give a whole lot of hope to their education. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 AFAIK, Laurel Springs is not a charter school. And it was accredited before there was such a thing as "online." I don't know anyone who has enrolled their dc in it, as I have lived in states where accreditation is not necessary, but it has been around for a long time. Also, is there a particular reason you wanted accredited? Because I can't think of a reason that a 4th grader *needs* an accredited school. Going to enrolling in a distance-learning school is a big jump just because you didn't like the materials you used for the last two years. It takes most of us a couple of years to figure out what works for us. You've already reached that. 🙂 It should be much easier now. And also, your little guy is just 9ish. He's still young enough that interaction with you is important. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Winter said: ... it takes forever to do which means it's cutting into our work schedules. ... Thus, we've made the decision to take a more hands off approach so our son can learn to work on his own without our constant need to be there for instruction... Gently: 3rd/4th grade is NOT when most children are developmentally capable of mostly self-educating and working largely independently, or schooling without a teacher or parent working alongside them to provide tutoring, instruction, guidance, and feedback -- or even just to help keep them "on task." And again, meaning this with all respect and gentleness, if the need in educating the child is for it to NOT require a lot of parent time because parents are working, then homeschooling or online/virtual options are not a good fit for this need/goal. Homeschooling requires a lot of time from the parent to put in the prep/research (even for "complete" programs), do the teaching, be available to tutor/mentor as needed, grade/go over the child's work, and do any administrative tasks. An online/virtual option will provide the research/materials and administrative aspect, but this option will still require a parent to help the child with any questions that WILL arise, and to help the child stay on-task, since online and computer-based learning is NOT the primary or best way the vast majority of children take in AND *retain* knowledge. 17 hours ago, Winter said: ...Basically at this point we're looking for a complete curriculum that requires a lot less of our time putting it together... ... secular and leaning heavily towards accreditation being a very important thing... ...engage with other students and a live teacher as well.... Any other recommendations... Well, it's not online or what you may be thinking of, BUT... an in-person private school, or "speciality" charter school, or "university mode"** school would fit all of those requirements wonderfully, especially the needs for cutting down on parent time, and engaging with teacher and other students. And many private / charter / university model school options are accredited. With the covid-19 vaccinations in full swing right now, there is a high likelihood that small schools (such as the types I mentioned) will be meeting in person by the start of the fall semester. ** university model = student is taught by live teachers at a school 3 days/week, and completes at home the work assigned by teachers on the other 2 days a week; teachers do the teaching and grading, the administration oversees all paperwork/records and researches/selects curriculum; parent is only responsible for seeing the assigned work is completed BEST of luck, whatever you decide. Warmest regards, Lori D. ETA -- Also, I forgot to add: WELCOME! I see by your post count you are new to these boards. 😄 Edited February 17, 2021 by Lori D. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 6 hours ago, Lori D. said: Gently: 3rd/4th grade is NOT when most children are developmentally capable of mostly self-educating and working largely independently, or schooling without a teacher or parent working alongside them to provide tutoring, instruction, guidance, and feedback -- or even just to help keep them "on task." And again, meaning this with all respect and gentleness, if the need in educating the child is for it to NOT require a lot of parent time because parents are working, then homeschooling or online/virtual options are not a good fit for this need/goal. Homeschooling requires a lot of time from the parent to put in the prep/research (even for "complete" programs), do the teaching, be available to tutor/mentor as needed, grade/go over the child's work, and do any administrative tasks. An online/virtual option will provide the research/materials and administrative aspect, but this option will still require a parent to help the child with any questions that WILL arise, and to help the child stay on-task, since online and computer-based learning is NOT the primary or best way the vast majority of children take in AND *retain* knowledge. Well, it's not online or what you may be thinking of, BUT... an in-person private school, or "speciality" charter school, or "university mode"** school would fit all of those requirements wonderfully, especially the needs for cutting down on parent time, and engaging with teacher and other students. And many private / charter / university model school options are accredited. With the covid-19 vaccinations in full swing right now, there is a high likelihood that small schools (such as the types I mentioned) will be meeting in person by the start of the fall semester. ** university model = student is taught by live teachers at a school 3 days/week, and completes at home the work assigned by teachers on the other 2 days a week; teachers do the teaching and grading, the administration oversees all paperwork/records and researches/selects curriculum; parent is only responsible for seeing the assigned work is completed BEST of luck, whatever you decide. Warmest regards, Lori D. ETA -- Also, I forgot to add: WELCOME! I see by your post count you are new to these boards. 😄 I think there is a misunderstanding here. We're not looking to have him work completely independent of an online teacher or us, just start to get to a point where we don't have to hold his hand through everything. The more important issue is that the weight is off our shoulders to do a ton of research that the school should be providing to us to properly teach. MBTP was terribly vague with details and it makes us wonder what exactly we were paying for. In person charter is not an option for us based on where we live. Plus, I figured by now some of the better ones would have online options available; especially with COVID being so present in our lives after a year. University model is more along the lines of what we're looking for which is why Bridgeway is so attractive to us but they seem to be one of very few doing this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Ellie said: AFAIK, Laurel Springs is not a charter school. And it was accredited before there was such a thing as "online." I don't know anyone who has enrolled their dc in it, as I have lived in states where accreditation is not necessary, but it has been around for a long time. Also, is there a particular reason you wanted accredited? Because I can't think of a reason that a 4th grader *needs* an accredited school. Going to enrolling in a distance-learning school is a big jump just because you didn't like the materials you used for the last two years. It takes most of us a couple of years to figure out what works for us. You've already reached that. 🙂 It should be much easier now. And also, your little guy is just 9ish. He's still young enough that interaction with you is important. A few reasons. Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards so we know the education he would be receiving would at the very least meet those standards rather than simply trying to piece together something and hope he's getting the education he needs. We gave that a try the past two years and it's not given us the results we've been hoping for. Obviously this will eventually be more important in the future but for now, at least we would have something to base from and also be able to augment it with our own stuff. We will continue to use some of our own curriculum along side the regular school stuff as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Winter said: A few reasons. Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards so we know the education he would be receiving would at the very least meet those standards rather than simply trying to piece together something and hope he's getting the education he needs. We gave that a try the past two years and it's not given us the results we've been hoping for. Obviously this will eventually be more important in the future but for now, at least we would have something to base from and also be able to augment it with our own stuff. We will continue to use some of our own curriculum along side the regular school stuff as well. By your own logic, Connections Academy should be held to a high standard so you would know that he would be receiving an education meeting at least those standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Winter said: Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards I've always thought I'd accreditation as being "minimum" requirements, no? Is your plan to enroll your ds in brick and mortar school once things return to normal, or are you homeschooling for the long haul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyroo Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 Well, if you already like and will continue "Math In Focus, Story of the World and Real Science Odyssey", then it sounds like you are most of the way to a great 4th grade program. Maybe a strong, online Language Arts class that meets once or twice a week would meet your needs? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masers Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 5 hours ago, Winter said: A few reasons. Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards so we know the education he would be receiving would at the very least meet those standards rather than simply trying to piece together something and hope he's getting the education he needs. We gave that a try the past two years and it's not given us the results we've been hoping for. Obviously this will eventually be more important in the future but for now, at least we would have something to base from and also be able to augment it with our own stuff. We will continue to use some of our own curriculum along side the regular school stuff as well. I have been heavily involved (on the board, in leadership positions) in a non-accredited university model school in our town. I can tell you after thoroughly looking into accreditation that it really means very little. We ultimately decided to forgo it based on that fact. It really only “matters” for high school if your child plans to go to college. At that point, graduating from an accredited high school will save you some headaches when applying for college. Otherwise, It really is just a lot of red tape, and definitely doesn’t guarantee anything academically. I think you would actually find that a lot of exceptional small schools, both online and brick-and-mortar, are not accredited because they have more freedom to pursue their own vision. For instance, we strongly felt that hiring the absolute best teachers we could find and then letting them have a lot of freedom in designing their curriculum was the way to go...we didn’t want to have to answer to a governing body about test scores and days in service, and so on. Like a pp pointed out, it sounds as if you’re halfway there to coming up with a solid program on your own. There is definitely a lot of trial and error in the beginning. What if you did language arts online?....sounds like you have most of the rest in place. Check out Memoria Press, WTM academy, BJU online, brave writer, lantern English, etc. So many choices! Or if you liked the idea behind moving beyond the page, you could look at something like Sonlight. It’s literature based like MBTP, but it’s really clearly laid out. The instructor guide literally tells you exactly what to do every day. You can go as far and deep as you want to. We use it for a loose spine for literature, history, science, and bible. My kids absolutely love the books, and I feel like they have learned a ton about the Bible and history. I think I’m going to try SOTW next year instead, and kind of do more our own thing, but it was a great help for the first 2 years of homeschooling, and I think that a kid going all the way through with Sonlight would end up with a really solid, strong education. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 40 minutes ago, Masers said: Or if you liked the idea behind moving beyond the page, you could look at something like Sonlight. It’s literature based like MBTP, but it’s really clearly laid out. T The OP wanted secular. Isn't Books hark the secular version of Sonlight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masers Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 1 hour ago, SusanC said: The OP wanted secular. Isn't Books hark the secular version of Sonlight? Oh yes, I forgot about that. Yes, Bookshark is the secular version. My kids have such a love for reading...it’s a great program! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Masers said: It really only “matters” for high school if your child plans to go to college. At that point, graduating from an accredited high school will save you some headaches when applying for college. Otherwise, It really is just a lot of red tape, and definitely doesn’t guarantee anything academically. I wouldn't even go that far. Applying to college with a home printed transcript with homebrewed courses is not that difficult, far less difficult than complying to a provider's course restrictions for 4 yrs. And an accredited transcript does not guarantee admissions, either. Where they might be helpful is if a student wants to enroll mid-high school. Many schools will not permit a student to enter at grade level if entering from an unaccredited high school. Colleges are far easier to deal with than public high schools. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 17, 2021 Author Share Posted February 17, 2021 2 hours ago, SusanC said: I've always thought I'd accreditation as being "minimum" requirements, no? Is your plan to enroll your ds in brick and mortar school once things return to normal, or are you homeschooling for the long haul? Been homeschooling now for 4 years with no intention of going to public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masers Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said: I wouldn't even go that far. Applying to college with a home printed transcript with homebrewed courses is not that difficult, far less difficult than complying to a provider's course restrictions for 4 yrs. And an accredited transcript does not guarantee admissions, either. Where they might be helpful is if a student wants to enroll mid-high school. Many schools will not permit a student to enter at grade level if entering from an unaccredited high school. Colleges are far easier to deal with than public high schools. Very true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Winter said: Been homeschooling now for 4 years with no intention of going to public. Then it seems like you may just need a good resource for language arts, and perhaps an outsourced one would let you step back from hands-on teaching that subject, as suggested by @wendyroo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) Along the lines of @wendyroo's suggestion of continuing with the materials that are working for you, and outsourcing LA: while not accredited, there are some online course providers of individual classes who receive good reviews on these boards. If interested in outsourcing just 1-2 classes, you might start a new post asking for recommendations of specific providers and instructors. For example, while I have no personal experience with any of these teachers, I keep hearing good things about Outschool, which is secular, and provides classes for the elementary ages up through high school. (Many providers only have high school level, or middle/high school level.) Outschool also has clubs, so that might be an opportunity for live interaction with peers.sampling of Outschool Language Arts classes for grade 44th grade English Language Arts4th garde Language Arts, FLEX4th & 5th grade LA practiceThe Excellent Reader Jr.: 4th gradeEnglish Language Private Lessons (gr. 3-5)3rd & 4th grade Complete English Grammar and WritingThird/Fourth Grade LA practice3rd/4th grade LA: Reading Literature and Writing Narratives Edited February 18, 2021 by Lori D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 20 hours ago, Winter said: A few reasons. Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards so we know the education he would be receiving would at the very least meet those standards rather than simply trying to piece together something and hope he's getting the education he needs. We gave that a try the past two years and it's not given us the results we've been hoping for. Obviously this will eventually be more important in the future but for now, at least we would have something to base from and also be able to augment it with our own stuff. We will continue to use some of our own curriculum along side the regular school stuff as well. Accreditation means that a school has applied to an accrediting agency, filled out lots of forms, and paid lots of money. None of the requirements to be accredited have anything to do with student outcome. Did you know that? Have you actually ever seen the requirements to be accredited? Most accredited distance-learning schools use textbooks and other materials which you could buy yourself. You're going to be doing the teaching, anyway, yes? Well, then, why pay the school so you can do all the work? I think doing more research on teaching materials would be better than paying a boatload of money for something that has no real value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal_Bear Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Cathy Duffy maintains list of online providers here. She has separate lists for secular and religious and also full schools versus individual course providers. Hope this helps your search. https://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-extras/online-schools-and-courses 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 On 2/17/2021 at 12:43 AM, Winter said: A few reasons. Accreditation usually means that the school is held to higher standards so we know the education he would be receiving would at the very least meet those standards rather than simply trying to piece together something and hope he's getting the education he needs. We gave that a try the past two years and it's not given us the results we've been hoping for. Obviously this will eventually be more important in the future but for now, at least we would have something to base from and also be able to augment it with our own stuff. We will continue to use some of our own curriculum along side the regular school stuff as well. Which accrediting agency specifically do you regard as adequate for your needs? On this and other boards, I often hear parents asking for accredited curricula or schools. But they can't name a single accrediting agency. This should be your first question. If you can name an accrediting agency or organization or something, then you can go to their website and see what they approve. I'll help you get started by pointing out that something exists in real life called the Western Association of Schools and Colleges. (Western what? Hemisphere?) If you like, I'm happy to form my own accrediting agency since it seems like easy money to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Posted February 18, 2021 Author Share Posted February 18, 2021 Okay, I get it. Accrediting is pointless right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori D. Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 (edited) So sorry, @Winter! I think you accidentally got hit with answers from a lot of us who are feeling "pandemic fatigue." For the past year, many of us have been answering variations on the same question from new "covid crisis homeschool" posters: "What free or cheap accredited online program should we go with that will teach my child independently?" -- only to have our responses from 15, 20, 25 years of real homeschooling-all-the-way through experience discarded, as the new posters insist that they got the "true info" (such as: "high school can be homeschooled in 2 hours a day") from the new Facebook group leader who has homeschooled only young children for a year... gah! I apologize for assuming you were in that category, @Winter. From your other posts in this thread with more info, clearly that is not the case. 😉 In answer to your original question -- I don't think you'll get too many responses about accredited programs for elementary ages, partly for reasons up-thread 😉 , but also because when the occasional post comes up on these boards, it is on the High School Board, with someone looking for an accredited online program for a specific reason for their high school student. If non-accredited options are okay, @calbear posted that great Cathy Duffy list of online course providers. Not all of them have courses for elementary ages, but that list could be a starting point for your researching. Or, if you want to outsource just 1-2 subjects, you could post a new thread asking for recommendations and personal experience with online course providers for 4th grade classes in those subject areas. And, like @wendyroo and @SusanC suggested, if you want to stick with what's working, and just need to explore alternatives to Moving Beyond the Page for your LA, we can come up with some ideas for you there, too. 😄 Happy to help! Warmest regards, Lori D. Edited February 19, 2021 by Lori D. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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