Younger sibling passing older sibling in math

[historically accurate]

My two youngest are about 1 1/2 years apart in age. Middle deals quite a bit with "brain fog" from both physical and mental health problems. Currently, she has been held back one year in school (she has a summer birthday, so she could go either way). The kids are currently in 8th and 9th grade. 

They have always been grouped for history & literature. I broke them apart for science a couple of years ago as oldest is very interested in biology and youngest is more interested in physics topics. In math, youngest is a "plodder" and she was behind due to me dealing with middle's health issues. So, she always ran a couple of years behind middle DD in math. She has caught up now and is ready to start Algebra. However, it is currently middle DD's 3rd time through Algebra (private school Algebra for a semester in 8th grade - no math 2nd semester due to mental health crisis, 9th grade Saxon & Life of Fred pre-Algebra for review, 9th grade Teaching Textbooks & we've backtracked to Learn Math Fast 2 & 3 now).

We've had a lot of discussions on doing YOUR personal best and working on your own math - they've always had different math curricula. Well, I'm not sure that discussion yet again is going to cut it this time; this is going to be a big one as middle DD has a chip the size of Alaska on her shoulders about math already. Any insights on how to address this? Youngest DD will not rub it in, but middle DD will take any comment about Algebra wrong as she is touchy about it already. 

Edit: Middle DD has always been a type A, straight A, leaning toward gifted student, so the brain fog is frustrating and relatively new for her. She's lost a lot of ability to concentrate as well as think. This is a relatively new thing for her, no more than 3 years.

Edited February 15, 2021 by historically accurate

[8filltheheart]

I have had a younger child farther apart in age pass an older sibling.   It can be hard on the older child's ego, but equally, they know (whether they want to acknowledge it with a positive attitude or not is another question) that it is unfair to prevent anyone from functioning on the level that they are capable of functioning.

I'd make sure to use very different curriculums, have them do math at separate times if there is a lot of hurt emotion at first.  FWIW, my older child got over it fairly quickly once the younger child dramatically outpaced her.   (In the long-term, the older child ended up pursuing an Allied health degree and is very happy working as an occupational therapy assistant and the younger child is now a 3rd yr physics grad student.....they simply are who they are.)   FWIW, I can see it happening again with even a bigger age span.  My 5th grader is currently only 2 yrs behind my 9th grader.   By the time my 9th grader is a 12th grader, my 5th grader may have passed her.

[Drama Llama]

We've had that twice.  My middle child, who we adopted at almost 9, came to us far ahead of my oldest, who was 11 at that time.  Math was his passion and he was incredibly good at it, while his brother struggles.

Those two never really had trouble sorting it out.  Some of it is that my middle child was pretty severely physically disabled, so they just had a sense that their abilities were very different from one another.  Some of that is just who my oldest kid is. 

My youngest, who is 10, is at the point where he has basically caught up with his oldest brother, who is 13.  If we were homeschooling, my guess is both kids would be ready to start Algebra this fall.  We'll probably put the youngest in PreA this fall, because I think the transition back to school will be a big one, and then because they'll be in school they'll stay a year apart in math, and look for ways to enrich my younger kid with breadth instead of speed.  

[BlsdMama]

It's a pretty regular occurrence. 

DS21 passed DD24 by the time he was 13.  DD14 has passed her sister who is 17.  DD16 was passed by DD14 and is now neck and neck with DD12.  DD7 is passing DD9 (super sensitive), but DD7 is a child with a tendency towards bragging, so different curriculum for them.  The older children are all using the same curriculum now, so yes, it's obvious.  But I would be horrified if a younger child bragged or made a disparaging remark to an older sibling.  That would be awful and truly, bullying.  Kids have different strengths.  Value those, encourage and build up.  I often speak to me weaknesses and strengths. My DH is amazing at math and the sciences. I'm gifted in areas of reading and writing.  We're each pretty vocal about struggling in the opposite areas at times.  (Let's be honest, I'm still trying to learn the last half of Saxon Algebra 2 and the only reason I graduated college was because my son tutored me.  My math struggles are VERY apparent to my kids, lol.) 

[Coco_Clark]

My kids are no where near age order in math.  More like 2, 4, 1, 3, 6, 5 😂. They get used to it.  Using different curricula can help if they are touchy.

[historically accurate]

Since this popped up again, I thought I would update. Middle and I had a talk (where she cried) because she feels like her goals are slipping away. We have talked (or written to each other since that is easier for her) about setting realistic goals and looking at what she can do. She's currently pulling a 110% in her online German class, so that was very helpful in showing that she is not hopeless at school even though her struggles in math make it seem so. 

Starting Monday, youngest DD will start Saxon Algebra I. Middle will return to Pre-Algebra. Middle DD did say she hopes youngest has a far easier time of it, and she's willing to do a lesson or two together if she needs to. She's not happy, but it's better. I expect there to be many, many flares of temper and self-recrimination. 

[BlsdMama]

Hey mama, is she self teaching? They might enjoy Nicole the Math Lady. You can get auto grading, set multiple tries, get emails to see where she’s struggling. My DS struggles in math and we’ve made incredible strides the past couple years. This year we switched to Nicole’s anti grading and I give him three incorrect tries. It’s made a significant impact in his abilities. 
 

Before this, I would correct when the lesson was complete and we’d do mistakes together. He misses quite a few with only one shot. He is seeing his own “less careful” mistakes and I can see when he’s struggling with a concept. But he really wants to push through on his own, but wasn’t quite ready or able to do that.  It’s really been worthwhile. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, historically accurate said:

Middle will return to Pre-Algebra. Middle DD did say she hopes youngest has a far easier time of it, and she's willing to do a lesson or two together if she needs to.

This is a bit off-topic, but do you know what she's having trouble with? Is there anything I can help explain? 

[historically accurate]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is a bit off-topic, but do you know what she's having trouble with? Is there anything I can help explain? 

Unfortunately, what she has trouble with changes from day to day. That's sweet you would offer, but honestly, I don't know. This past week, she had a few days not knowing how to read a decimal or how to add them. 

We're backing up to Learn Math Fast now. I also am having her go through the chapter reviews in Basic College Math in order to find any areas she's confused on. 

I think her brain fog just gets the better of her. And she's probably at the point of anxiety because she's afraid she won't remember. She does have a better attitude about me helping now though. 

[Not_a_Number]

38 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

Unfortunately, what she has trouble with changes from day to day. That's sweet you would offer, but honestly, I don't know. This past week, she had a few days not knowing how to read a decimal or how to add them. 

We're backing up to Learn Math Fast now. I also am having her go through the chapter reviews in Basic College Math in order to find any areas she's confused on. 

I think her brain fog just gets the better of her. And she's probably at the point of anxiety because she's afraid she won't remember. She does have a better attitude about me helping now though. 

Ooof. That sounds hard 😞 . 

Message me if there's ever anything conceptual that confuses her. I've seen a lot of different concepts that trip kids up, so I do tend to have ideas. 

[Xahm]

This is something I kind of worry about because my older two are just a year and a half apart. They are both good at math, but the younger seems to absorb math things the way the older absorbed reading. So far, they've been really supportive of each other rather than competitive, but when I'm playing math fact practice games with the oldest, I make sure little brother isn't there because he has a tendency to get the answer faster than her. That's not welcome when she's feeling even mildly stressed. Thanks everyone for sharing how it's worked or is working in your homes. It helps me see different possibilities for the future.

[historically accurate]

I ran across this thread today, and I thought I would give another update.

Youngest has done well with her foray into Algebra as I expected she would. She's enjoying it, and she's understanding it well. We decided on CLE which was what she used to catch up, since she likes it and is familiar with it.

Middle, who has been my math hopeless one, all of a sudden is zooming along. Everything is going well. She is understanding everything. Why? I think we've gotten some of her brain fog under control with caffeine - she's started drinking an iced tea every morning, and her concentration is much better. Also, she will be taking the ACT test as a baseline here in a week, and she always does better if she has a clear goal. Of course to keep me on my toes, words have started slipping away from her during conversations, but numbers? Numbers, and she's on it lately! She's practically flying through the Learn Math Fast books now and is on the Algebra one.