art of problem solving pre-algebra book

[Coco_Clark]

My latest Beast graduate is not interested in online classes (and Im not particularly interested in paying), and not ready to just jump into Jacobs Algebra like I've done before.  Has anyone taught Art of Problem Solving's Pre-Al level from the book?  I feel like I only hear about the online option.  Is the instruction included or just work?  Is this do-able for a not-mathy, but has taught algebra already mom?  Is the answer key as good as Beast?  

[daijobu]

Yes, I taught AoPS PreA just using the textbooks.  I did a lot of contest math when I was a student, so it was familiar to me.  The solutions are complete with every step explained, but if you aren't accustomed to more challenging problems you may need to prepare the problem sets yourself in advance to refamiliarize yourself with the topics and grow your problem solving skills.  

[SoCal_Bear]

It depends on the kid whether or not AOPS PA is a good fit. The text is written to the student, so I tended to only help with asking leading questions as needed for the occasional challenge problems he had problems with. The solutions are full worked with explanations and if there are alternative solutions, those are provided as well. 

It is a very text dense book though. Nothing about it is remotely visually appealling. It's like reading a college text in a lot of ways. There are some kids who won't react well to that aspect. I thought looking at the sample chapters (later chapters, not the intro one) would give your student a good idea of what to expect.

[Coco_Clark]

Thanks.  I'm definitely used to the challenge of Beast Academy.  I've gone through it 3 times now.  But I don't have any history in contest math and don't consider myself mathy.

I do think the transition from comic to text book will be rough.  It always is at this stage, which is part of why I want to do pre-a instead of jumping right into algebra. He can get used to the format change while not having to stress about the math, necessarily.  He almost tests out of the book.  I'll look at the later samples, that's a good idea.  

I honestly don't expect to stick with AOPS with this kid long haul.  I think it's overkill for kids that aren't interested in competing, or just absolutely in love with math.  But there is a major dearth of Pre-Algebra options.  I feel like I'm floundering every time we hit this level 🤪

Edited January 22, 2021 by Coco_Clark

[Hillcottagemom]

2 minutes ago, Coco_Clark said:

Thanks.  I'm definitely used to the challenge of Beast Academy.  I've gone through it 3 times now.  But I don't have any history in contest math and don't consider myself mathy.

I do think the transition from comic to text book will be rough.  It always is at this stage, which is part of why I want to do pre-a instead of jumping right into algebra.  I'll look at the later samples, that's a good idea.  

I honestly don't expect to stick with AOPS long haul.  I think it's overkill for kids that aren't interested in competing, or just in love with math.  But there is a major dearth of Pre-Algebra options.  I feel like I'm floundering every time we hit this level 🤪

We went from Beast to Zaccaro Real World Algebra before tackling Jacobs. Just another thought😃 

[wendyroo]

AOPS Pre-A is big and thick and...let’s go with thorough.  It is truly a behemoth of a book. AOPS pages are DENSE with almost no white space.

I find AOPS Pre-A an incredibly intimidating book, but also absolutely worthwhile...for some kids.

DS#1 did Math Mammoth, Hands on Equations, Zaccaro Real World Algebra, and then spent 18 long months plugging away through AOPS Prealgebra (book + Alcumus). The level of rigor served him well...at points it almost killed us both, but it did serve him well. 😉

DS#2 did Math Mammoth, Hands on Equations, and is now bouncing back and forth between Real World Algebra and Jousting Armadillos. AOPS would be a disaster with him at this point.

 

[Coco_Clark]

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

AOPS Pre-A is big and thick and...let’s go with thorough.  It is truly a behemoth of a book. AOPS pages are DENSE with almost no white space.

I find AOPS Pre-A an incredibly intimidating book, but also absolutely worthwhile...for some kids.

DS#1 did Math Mammoth, Hands on Equations, Zaccaro Real World Algebra, and then spent 18 long months plugging away through AOPS Prealgebra (book + Alcumus). The level of rigor served him well...at points it almost killed us both, but it did serve him well. 😉

DS#2 did Math Mammoth, Hands on Equations, and is now bouncing back and forth between Real World Algebra and Jousting Armadillos. AOPS would be a disaster with him at this point.

 

My math-phobic DD is using the Jousting series right now.  She came from Math Mammoth as well.  I really enjoy it, and I do feel it's getting her gently introduced to algebraic concepts, but it's too wordy and not mathy enough for this boy, if that makes sense.  

I'll look into Real World Algebra.

Thanks!

Edited January 22, 2021 by Coco_Clark

[purpleowl]

Yes, we've used the book rather than the online courses, and it's worked well for us.

Instruction is included in the text. My girls both also liked watching the free videos on the AOPS website that go along with the prealgebra book (they enjoy RR's humor), but those are not necessary for a kid who's not interested in them.

It is much different visually, but neither of my girls seemed bothered by that. Oldest used Math Mammoth when she was younger, and the crowded feel of those pages was very much bothersome to her at that point. But the AOPS Prealgebra book was fine when she started it at age 10.

The solutions manual is excellent.

[Ausmumof3]

I’m about to attempt it with dd

the algebra seems self explanatory so hopefully PreA will be.

 

[Not_a_Number]

I've taught the online class. I actually don't think there's a ton of new stuff in this book. 

I've been a little perplexed about what the online class chose to focus on, to be honest. I wish there was a bigger emphasis on "how variables work" and less of the assumption that kids already understand variables. 

I've spent less time with the book than the class, though, so I don't know if that's also the case in the book. (The class uses the book as a reference but has totally different homeworks.) 

[Miss Tick]

I'm doing the book this year with dd. As with your ds, i don't expect to use AOPS long term, but i do really like this book. I've never done contest math either. DS did it a few years ago, bit more independently and it took him longer. I'm trying to get dd to finish it in a year. Here are some things we do after reading this discussion board forever -

Sign up for Alcumus. Sometimes she does this multiple times a week, sometimes she goes weeks without opening it.

Definitely watch the free videos.

We start the book with chapter 15 and then circle back to the beginning. Chapter 15 is Problem-Solving Strategies, useful to have thought about the concept before diving into the book.

DD watches all the videos for a section, reads and works through the chapter problems and then the solutions. Next she works through the exercises with me close at hand. When she is done we check and work out the problems she missed.

After she finishes a chapter she does the challenge problems from the previous chapter. This has worked very well for us. Letting the topic sit for a while before tackling the challenge problems seems to make them more approachable.

This has been a good year/subject for starting "homework". In order to finish the book in a year, she needs to keep making steady progress, so sometimes we do problems later in the day or in the evening. The book is challenging and she doesn't always have the focus/interest/stamina to stick with it for a full hour at once.

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by SusanC
as if i haven't said enough

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I've only ever used the AOPS books, so can't compare to the class.  I've been shocked with how well my kids did adapting to the wall-of-text style of the books.  It is VERY intimidating at first.  I think AOPS is an excellent character-builder, in addition to math curriculum.  

I do not directly teach the material.  The book is written to the student.  I simply have my kids work through it, and we check each exercise set together so that I have a feel for whether or not they are getting it.  I am more in a coaching role, answering questions when they come up, giving additional explanation when they are confused by the text, etc.  

AOPS Pre-A for us (thus far, I'm on my second kid with it) is equal parts learning math and learning to learn independently.  It really marks a passage into a different style of schooling in our home.  It is the first subject I really shift into their middle-school hands, all while remaining available as a coach.  My son needed about 80% assistance at the start of Pre-A.  He is now in AOPS Geometry and I would say I help him 10% or less of the time, and the helps tend to be more along the lines of "Did you notice ..." or "What if you started by..." and then he's off and running.  My dd, who has a different personality, really does not want my assistance.  From the second I put AOPS Pre-A in her hands, she has only "allowed" me to help maybe 20% of the time.  As a consequence, she is going slower.  But since I'm using AOPS both for math and for shifting to independent learning habits, that's perfectly fine with me.     

Sorry to drift off-topic, I just wanted to explain how we are using AOPS.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

p.s.  I suggest you work through the AOPS books yourself fas well.  They don't have the same scope and sequence as other books, and they do have some truly challenging problems.  You will probably be surprised at how much your own math understanding improves.