Seasonal Affective Disorder and Eyesight

[Lovedtodeath]

I feel like I am blind because it is NEVER bright enough for me in the house. Is this SAD or something else?

 

I think I do have SAD and maybe something else going on as well... How have you dealt with it? I was thinking of one of those lights that you get to tan your face maybe? I have no idea where I would obtain one. :001_huh: Vit D supplements? "Natural" light? Suggestions people!!:D

[dirty ethel rackham]

I was going to say the eyesight thing is about getting old, LOL! I find that I cannot read if there is not enough bright light. For me, it is an "over 40" thing.

 

However, if you have other symptoms of SAD, such as lack of energy, feeling blue, listless, achiness, you might look into things to help manage it. Here is my list:

 

1. Regular exercise. Now this may seem like a catch-22 ... "how can I exercise to have more energy if I have no energy to exercise?" I found that having an exercise partner with similar goals and a similar schedule is very important. Since I don't want to disappoint my partner by wigging out on her, I am motivated to get up no matter how tired I am. If you can get outdoors to exercise regularly, that can help. I walk no matter how cold, unless it is raining or too slippery. Getting good clothing is important.

2. Vitamin D. Research is showing that we are woefully deficient in vitamin D and we need much more than previously thought. My doc has me taking 3000 IU's of vit. D daily.

3. Light therapy. Not the kind that tans your face, but the kind designed for this purpose. Here are some websites with different products.

http://www.lighttherapyproducts.com/light_boxes.aspx

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=sad+light&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=2387803811&ref=pd_sl_36cs4h6o40_b

My understanding of the therapy is that light in your eyes helps tell the brain to make more of the "feel good" chemicals, rather than going into hibernation status.

[Blessedfamily]

I have SAD: too much melatonin from not enough sunlight. Melatonin is the hormone that makes you sleepy at night. It is directly related to light or lack thereof and regulated through the eyes.

 

If you have it, sleep in as dark a room as possible. This shoots melatonin up at night when it does good things for your body cells. Then in the morning, get just a few minutes of real sunlight. Outside.

 

Even on an overcast day, there is no artificial light that can turn off melatonin production like the sun. If you go with light therapy or real sunlight make sure you do it early in the morning.

 

I agree with previous poster about Vit D and exercise, but can't bring myself to call anyone "Dirty Ethel Rackham". :001_smile: It sounds mean.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I agree with previous poster about Vit D and exercise, but can't bring myself to call anyone "Dirty Ethel Rackham". :001_smile: It sounds mean.

 

Aww, come on. It's my pirate alter-ego! I secretly yearn to be a buxom broad with a salty tongue.

[Kimm in WA]

:

[Jenny in Atl]

My eye site changes with the seasons. I too have more problems in the winter, but then I'm also getting old. :tongue_smilie:

[Confuzzled]

I have problems with depression in the winter and have had great success using a therapeutic light box in the late fall and winter. I haven't needed antidepressants since I started using one about four years ago.

 

I got it from this company: http://www.lighttherapy.com/

[Storm Bay]

I'd second the real sunlight answer. Plus, my bil who has had SAD at least as long as my sister has known him, needs lots of big windows in his house for lots of natural light.

 

As for seeing in the dark, this is partly related to age. It's also related to the pigments you have in your eyes. Some people have dark pigment and some have light pigment. I just learned this this year. I have eyes that are very, very sensitive to light and thought it was because they're green, but it's not just that, I have light retinal pigments. None of my dc are as sensitive to light as I am, so I'm guessing they didn't inherit this trait (but I am positive I got it from my dad who is also light sensitive). Even though I now need reading glasses for fine print, I'm still super sensitive--I wear sunglasses in my kitchen on sunny days in the winter from the glare and bright light from the sun beating in (free heat & light), but I need more light to read than I used to due to the naturaly aging process of the eyes. But I still have far better vision in the dark than dh (of course, he's also near sighted).

[Garga]

Did you ever have Lasik surgery? If you did, (even if it was years ago) remember that the eyes get a lot dryer in the winter and you might need eye drops.

[Lovedtodeath]

Did you ever have Lasik surgery? If you did, (even if it was years ago) remember that the eyes get a lot dryer in the winter and you might need eye drops.

 

My eyes are very dry, but I didn't really think about it affecting me that much. I will definitely get some eye drops.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

 

What all does Vit. D help?

 

Will taking Melatonin at night help?

 

When do you use the light box?

[Blessedfamily]

Will taking Melatonin at night help?

 

 

 

Where possible, I let my body adjust naturally before deciding to take any supplements.

 

There are good studies with adults and children to back up using sunlight to regulate melatonin. I don't have it on hand, but the one I remember most was done on a large group of Italian school children. They were able to increase melatonin levels by 30% in two weeks.

 

The keys:

Reduce artificial light after dusk and get to bed by at least 10(hard I know)

Sleep without artificial light(night light, alarm clock light)

Natural sunlight early (before the rays are most dangerous)

Periods of sunlight during the day are good.

 

The sun turns melatonin production off during the day. You get an equivalent rebound of high melatonin levels at night when you need it to repair cellular damage.

[cillakat]

 

I think I do have SAD and maybe something else going on as well... How have you dealt with it? I was thinking of one of those lights that you get to tan your face maybe? I have no idea where I would obtain one. :001_huh: Vit D supplements? "Natural" light? Suggestions people!!:D

 

The evidence for SAD supports vitamin D over lightboxes. Virtually everyone not taking supplemental D is woefully deficient. I needed 2000 IU D per day when I was still getting some D from sun - ie incidental exposure only and i didn't wear sunscreen. Now I need more. I'm retesting again soon after taking 4800 IU per day for the last 8 weeks.

 

K

[cillakat]

What all does Vit. D help?

 

Will taking Melatonin at night help?

 

d helps ....everything? one study showed that taking D was more effective at treating SAD than was the therapeutic light box. there is other evidence supporting the use of D as well....for mental health issues and much much more.

 

the current thinking is that appropriate levels of D would prevent 50% of current cancer deaths. there is so far evidence that higher levels of D decrease rates of lung cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, colon cancer and pancreatic cancer......not to mention lupus, ms, psoriasis, type II diabetes, PCOS and more.

 

In otherwords, not only will it likely cure your 'SAD' but it may save your life.

 

There is also a vitamin D/autism theory that is very sound (that d deficiency triggers the genetics that are at work), vitamin d/infertility, vitamin d/fibroids....oh the list is long.

 

Take your D.....and lots of it.

 

vitamindcouncil.org

 

K

[yslek]

I guess I need to take more vitamin D! I thought I was doing well, since my multivitamin has D, and I take Cod Liver Oil. I also have a sunlamp, but need to actually use it on a regular basis. I wish I could rely on real sunlight, but where I live, much of the year (especially this season) is gray and gloomy. :glare:

 

Is there a particular type of vitamin D to look for? Thanks.

[Once]

Yes, thanks for starting this and thanks to all with helpful info.

 

I have found that OmegaBrite has helped this year with the down moods. Tomorrow, I am buying vitamin D. I've heard of the link and understand it but I have been forgetting to actually buy the stuff. :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks again everyone!

[cillakat]

I guess I need to take more vitamin D! I thought I was doing well, since my multivitamin has D, and I take Cod Liver Oil. I also have a sunlamp, but need to actually use it on a regular basis. I wish I could rely on real sunlight, but where I live, much of the year (especially this season) is gray and gloomy. :glare:

 

stop the CLO asap. there is a large and growing body of evidence that we get WAY to much A, especially in ratio to our paltry D. Switch to plain fish oil instead, then take separate D supplements (in additionto the multi).

 

Really no one can rely on sunlight unless:

1)they live in the tropics or nearly so

2)wear *no* sunscreen

3)are willing to do midday exposure in a bathing suit (to the point just before a burn would occur....ie light light skins need little, dark skins more, very dark skins dramatically more)

 

good example: I live in Atlanta. My D was tested in August of 2003. So summer. In atlanta. I didn't lay out in the sun but I didn't avoid it. I wore short sleeve vneck shirts and never ever a drop of sunscreen. Ever. We were out and about alot. Most of the day. The park, the store, running errands, the zoo. The pool. I sought shade most of the time at the park and pool but still....we were outside and there was intense sun.

 

My 25(OH)D was 24.5ng/mL which at the time most docs thought was okay. On the low side of okay, but still 'okay'. However, the research had begun to paint a very different picture and thankfully the hcp with whom we were working, was current on the literature. Optimal levels are 50-55 and maybe higher (up to 70 ng/mL). vitamindcouncil.org

 

I was tired, had muscle weakness, joint swelling/pain, and well....I guess I wasn't tired, it was more like a frighteningly deep fatigued to the bones sort of feeling. the fatigue, muscle weakness and joint pain went away with sufficient D.

 

I started taking 2000 IU per day and was able to maintain my levels at 50-55 ng/mL for quite some time.

 

Now it's clear that my newfound sun protectiveness (vanity...sundamage etc) have impacted what little I could get from incidental exposure and I've doubled my dose. I'll retest in a month.

 

Cholecalciferol/D3 is the right supplement. Preferably an oil filled gelcap or liquid/drop. Mom's need it. Dad's need it. Kids' need it. Infants need it. Breastfed infants need it. SIM fed infants need it (but they get some from the SIM). And we all need more than the RDA, perhaps as much as 10x the rda for some people.

 

The evidence is starting to point towards D deficiency as a major possible cause of ld's, autism and a known factor in lung, prostate, breast, colon cancer, asthma, sudden cardiac failure in infants....a factor in autoimmune issues (ms, lupus, psoriasis etc).

 

We all need it. And lots of it.

 

vitamindcouncil.org

 

K

[cillakat]

<<]I guess I need to take more vitamin D! I thought I was doing well, since my multivitamin has D, and I take Cod Liver Oil. I also have a sunlamp, but need to actually use it on a regular basis. I wish I could rely on real sunlight, but where I live, much of the year (especially this season) is gray and gloomy. :glare:>>

 

stop the CLO asap. there is a large and growing body of evidence that we get WAY to much A, especially in ratio to our paltry D. Switch to plain fish oil instead, then take separate D supplements (in additionto the multi).

 

Really no one can rely on sunlight unless:

1)they live in the tropics or nearly so

2)they wear *no* sunscreen

3)they are willing to do midday exposure in a bathing suit (to the point just before a burn would occur....ie light light skins need little, dark skins more, very dark skins dramatically more)

 

good example: I live in Atlanta. My D was tested in August of 2003. So summer. In atlanta. I didn't lay out in the sun but I didn't avoid it. I wore short sleeve vneck shirts and never ever a drop of sunscreen. Ever. We were out and about alot. Most of the day. The park, the store, running errands, the zoo. The pool. I sought shade most of the time at the park and pool but still....we were outside and there was intense sun.

 

My 25(OH)D was 24.5ng/mL which at the time most docs thought was okay. On the low side of okay, but still 'okay'. However, the research had begun to paint a very different picture and thankfully the hcp with whom we were working, was current on the literature. Optimal levels are 50-55 and maybe higher (up to 70 ng/mL). vitamindcouncil.org

 

I was tired, had muscle weakness, joint swelling/pain, and well....I guess I wasn't tired, it was more like a frighteningly deep fatigued to the bones sort of feeling. the fatigue, muscle weakness and joint pain went away with sufficient D.

 

I started taking 2000 IU per day and was able to maintain my levels at 50-55 ng/mL for quite some time.

 

Now it's clear that my newfound sun protectiveness (vanity...sundamage etc) has impacted what little D I could get from incidental exposure and I've had to doubled my dose. I'll retest in a month.

 

Cholecalciferol/D3 is the right supplement. Preferably an oil filled gelcap or liquid/drop. Mom's need it. Dad's need it. Kids' need it. Infants need it. Breastfed infants need it. SIM fed infants need it (but they get some from the SIM). And we all need more than the RDA, perhaps as much as 10x the rda for some people.

 

The evidence is starting to point towards D deficiency as a major possible cause of ld's, autism and a known factor in lung, prostate, breast, colon cancer, asthma, sudden cardiac failure in infants....a factor in autoimmune issues (ms, lupus, psoriasis etc).

 

We all need it. And lots of it.

 

vitamindcouncil.org

 

K

[dangermom]

In case you care, I've been using a dawn simulator light in the mornings. I didn't even know they existed before. It's a timer that you put on a full-spectrum lamp, and it takes about half an hour (or you can set the time on the pricier ones) to turn up to full brightness. I use it so that I can get up in the morning--for the last few years I've been waking up with the sun, so in the summer I pop out of bed early and in the winter I can't seem to wake up at all. With the lamp I wake up easily once it's fully bright and shining in my face. :001_smile:

 

Don't know if this is helpful but thought I'd throw it out there.

[Storm Bay]

 

stop the CLO asap. there is a large and growing body of evidence that we get WAY to much A, especially in ratio to our paltry D. Switch to plain fish oil instead, then take separate D supplements (in additionto the multi).

K

 

What you need is a supplement that has beta-carotene instead of already made vitamin A. That way your body can convert what it needs to vitamin A and it's much safer for your body.

 

Too much vitamin A is as bad as too little, and it's one of the fat soluble ones, which means your body can store it. (B and C vitamins are water soluble). In fact, the reason the Innuit, et al, don't eat polar bear liver is because just a spoonful is enough to kill someone. Why? Because of the extremely high concentration of vitamin A already made.

[Blessedfamily]

 

Really no one can rely on sunlight unless:

1)they live in the tropics or nearly so

2)wear *no* sunscreen

3)are willing to do midday exposure in a bathing suit (to the point just before a burn would occur....ie light light skins need little, dark skins more, very dark skins dramatically more)

 

 

K

 

 

It's correct that no one is going to get enough vit D from sunlight becasue of the dangers of too much sun. Vitamin D is important for a whole host of reasons, as you say.

 

But, when I speak of sunlight, it is to control your melatonin cycle, which is very important in SAD, and also the prevention of many diseases. Melatonin repairs free radical damage, controls hormones, etc.

 

This can be done with a little natural sunlight in the morning before the sun's rays gets most dangerous.

 

We go out for about 15 minutes between 8 and 8:30 when possible and keep it bright during the day. It's the way mankind was designed to operate and did so before the invention of electricity. Outdoors in the sun during the day and sleeping in darkness at night.

 

We stay out of the sun becasue of skin cancer, but it still regulates our cycadian rhythmn.

 

 

Too much vitamin A is as bad as too little, and it's one of the fat soluble ones, which means your body can store it. (B and C vitamins are water soluble). In fact, the reason the Innuit, et al, don't eat polar bear liver is because just a spoonful is enough to kill someone. Why? Because of the extremely high concentration of vitamin A already made.

 

:iagree:

Edited December 5, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Blessedfamily]

Here's and article from Psychology Today about melatonin and SAD.

I'm not downplaying Vit D and exercise because they are all important for a world of reasons.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/sad.html

 

You will find lots of good information to support them all in a complete treatment of SAD. I think for you would benefit from them all:Exercise, more Vit. D, correctly balanced melatonin.

 

Light boxes have helped people with SAD and I don't discredit that. They're just less effective than a few minutes in the morning sun and a bright room during the day.:001_smile:

 

 

 

Here's another article from the National Institute Of Mental Health

 

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/science-news/2006/properly-timed-light-melatonin-lift-winter-depression-by-syncing-rhythms.shtml

Edited December 5, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Storm Bay]

 

We go out for about 15 minutes between 8 and 8:30 when possible and keep it bright during the day. It's the way mankind was designed to operate and did so before the invention of electricity. Outdoors in the sun during the day and sleeping in darkness at night.

 

We stay out of the sun becasue of skin cancer, but it still regulates our cycadian rhythmn.

 

 

 

You know, I was so very, very careful when my dc were little, and am still, but not nearly as much. Studies have shown that it's not the people who are in the sun all the time who have a greater risk, but those who work indoors and then go out & get sunburned. There was one done in Australia, and I don't have the link now, but it showed that skin cancer (the kind caused by UV rays, NOT melanoma which has nothing to do with sun according to the dermatologist I saw--I wasn't in there for cancer) was higher amongst office workers who got too much exposure to the sun than it was in lifeguards who are in it all the time.

 

What we do each spring is build up slowly until our skin tans (a good thing) but never burns (the bad thing). My dc HATE sunscreen, so we try to use it only when we really need to (like when my parents flew us to Mexico in the middle of winter).

 

However, it is true that other damage occurs from the sun such as wrinkles, etc, so wearing a hat and clothes are also good. I grew up before we knew all this and burned every year (we burned and then it turned to a tan, and we never even heard of sun screen when I was little & didn't try it until I was about 10 ish.) Back then it was weak stuff.

 

I get concerned about the chemicals they put in most of them, so we're switching to mineral sunscreens.

[Lovedtodeath]

The problem with the sunlight information is that I have had this before and I can never stick to it. I appreciate all of the input in this thread!

[Blessedfamily]

The problem with the sunlight information is that I have had this before and I can never stick to it. I appreciate all of the input in this thread!

 

It is hard to fit into an already busy day unless you do the "nature walks" that some homeschoolers talk about. We have a very hard time getting outside in the morning before 9am.

 

Keep the house bright during the day. It makes a world of difference in your mood.

[Lovedtodeath]

It takes me over an (stressful) hour to get everyone out the door; we have to be bundled up. DD and I are both distractable and "pokey" so getting out the door for anything is always a major undertaking. :(

[Blessedfamily]

Even though it's cold in winter, I took my drapes down in the family room (well, really all the downstairs rooms) where we are during the day. I have blinds that I open to let in the most light while keeping some privacy.

 

The heavy drapes are in the bedroom. At night I draw them to darken the room (boosts melatonin) and keep it warm.

[cillakat]

<<What you need is a supplement that has beta-carotene instead of already made vitamin A.>>

 

but with more evidence indicating that beta carotene from supps is linked to increased cancer rates, it's not worth it.

 

I'd go with bc rich foods, some A rich foods (eggs etc) would test A levels at some point. Then it's easy to tell if levels are okay just with bc from food, and if it's converting at a sufficient rate......or if one needs a small amount of supplemental A....like 500 IU per day or 2500 IU per day.

 

It's likely that much of the problem of 'too much A' is really just a problem of 'too little D' but until more is known, i'm being conservative and reducing my A.

 

there are some indications that appropriate doses of preformed A are probably 3-5x an appropriate dose of D....per day. but almost no one gets enough D. when there is too little D but 'enough' or too much A, A will take over the D receptors.

 

But still, for now I'm cutting back and will test A once a year or so.

 

:)

K

[Blessedfamily]

<<What you need is a supplement that has beta-carotene instead of already made vitamin A.>>

 

but with more evidence indicating that beta carotene from supps is linked to increased cancer rates, it's not worth it.

 

I'd go with bc rich foods, some A rich foods (eggs etc) would test A levels at some point. Then it's easy to tell if levels are okay just with bc from food, and if it's converting at a sufficient rate......or if one needs a small amount of supplemental A....like 500 IU per day or 2500 IU per day.

 

It's likely that much of the problem of 'too much A' is really just a problem of 'too little D' but until more is known, i'm being conservative and reducing my A.

 

there are some indications that appropriate doses of preformed A are probably 3-5x an appropriate dose of D....per day. but almost no one gets enough D. when there is too little D but 'enough' or too much A, A will take over the D receptors.

 

But still, for now I'm cutting back and will test A once a year or so.

 

:)

K

 

 

I switched my multi-vitamins because it had, to me, too much vit A. I do not play around with megadoses of A. I prefer to get it from foods.

 

Frequently when you find studies that say too much of this vitamin or that causes cancer or whatever, it's from people taking megadoses of it in supplements. Less frequently from the amount of vitamins you get in a healthy, varied diet. I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

Vit D I will supplement, but I'm working out the amount and source. I don't like to overdo anything.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Lovedtodeath]

The RDA for Vitamin A is set very low. I heard about this being a problem before I heard of Vitamin D. According to my nutritionist, some people benefit from taking more of a certain kind of A. 4 times the RDA is fine for me.

[Storm Bay]

<<What you need is a supplement that has beta-carotene instead of already made vitamin A.>>

 

but with more evidence indicating that beta carotene from supps is linked to increased cancer rates, it's not worth it.

 

, for now I'm cutting back and will test A once a year or so.

 

:)

K

 

I haven't seen those, and with all my food sensitivities don't want to!!! There aren't enough different veggies I can eat.

[Harriet Vane]

It takes me over an (stressful) hour to get everyone out the door; we have to be bundled up. DD and I are both distractable and "pokey" so getting out the door for anything is always a major undertaking. :(

 

We do not struggle with ADD/ADHD issues, but I would like to share our system just in case you find it helpful. We've only done it a few times but it was worked brilliantly for us so far.

 

My kids lay out their snowpants right next to their bed each night. When dh wakes them up in the morning, they put the snowpants on right away over their pajamas and eat breakfast with dh like that. Then while dh is finishing his morning routine, we put on our hats/mittens/coats and walk with him to the train station. I do not wear snowpants, but I do have two pairs of wind-resistant pants. I throw on a pair right over my pajamas. I don't do my hair, I just jam on a hat. Once dh goes up to the el the kids and I walk a longer way home so that we are out about half an hour total. Once home we sip tea and read books together in my bed.

[cillakat]

Light boxes have helped people with SAD and I don't discredit that. They're just less effective than a few minutes in the morning sun and a bright room during the day.:001_smile:

 

 

it looks like biologically appropriate doses of cholecalciferol (D3) helps more than anything though. And it's so cheap and easy:)

 

K

[Blessedfamily]

We do not struggle with ADD/ADHD issues, but I would like to share our system just in case you find it helpful. We've only done it a few times but it was worked brilliantly for us so far.

 

My kids lay out their snowpants right next to their bed each night. When dh wakes them up in the morning, they put the snowpants on right away over their pajamas and eat breakfast with dh like that. Then while dh is finishing his morning routine, we put on our hats/mittens/coats and walk with him to the train station. I do not wear snowpants, but I do have two pairs of wind-resistant pants. I throw on a pair right over my pajamas. I don't do my hair, I just jam on a hat. Once dh goes up to the el the kids and I walk a longer way home so that we are out about half an hour total. Once home we sip tea and read books together in my bed.

 

That is a great, practicle way to incorporate getting some natural sunlight into your day. Even in winter.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Blessedfamily]

it looks like biologically appropriate doses of cholecalciferol (D3) helps more than anything though. And it's so cheap and easy:)

 

K

 

I'm sure some/many people will need to supplement for SAD. :)

 

I like to let my body work naturally first, and then supplement if necessary. The sunlight/melatonin has drastically help my years of SAD (my husband is very thankful:001_smile:) without supplementation.

 

Really, the big hurdle for us was finding what was causing my "blue" symptoms every winter and in periods of gloomy weather. The scientific connection to melatonin was mentioned repeatedly so I gave that a try and it worked.

 

I make the effort to get a few minutes of sunlight for not only for that, but because it helps fight disease and it's what our bodies were designed to do anyway.

 

I like to work synergistically. Exercise, healthy diet(well I try:)), a good multivitamin and will supplement with vitamin D because I'm sure I need it for several reasons.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[cillakat]

That is a great, practicle way to incorporate getting some natural sunlight into your day. Even in winter.

 

which is helpful for melatonin levels, but not D levels.

 

:)

k

[cillakat]

I'm sure some/many people will need to supplement for SAD. :)

......... Exercise, healthy diet(well I try:)), a good multivitamin and will supplement with vitamin D because I'm sure I need it for several reasons.

 

Yup. Really everyone needs to supplement D - SAD or not. We just don't get sun the way we were meant to. And unless we all have huge lifestyle changes and suddenly start getting midday sun every day during the summer, with most sun exposed, that's not going to change;)

 

K

[cillakat]

<I haven't seen those, and with all my food sensitivities don't want to!!! There aren't enough different veggies I can eat>>

 

You must have misunderstood me:) Someone mentioned taking beta carotene supplements rather than preformed A. I was saying that's a bad idea b/c bc supplements are linked to incr risk of some types of cancer in a few studies. That's all.

 

Veggies are always a good bet and not a risk.

 

 

k

[cillakat]

Fwiw, I was misquoted. I never said this:

 

Originally Posted by cillakat

We go out for about 15 minutes between 8 and 8:30 when possible and keep it bright during the day. It's the way mankind was designed to operate and did so before the invention of electricity. Outdoors in the sun during the day and sleeping in darkness at night.

 

We stay out of the sun becasue of skin cancer, but it still regulates our cycadian rhythmn.

 

Skincancer isn't caused by UV alone. Skincancer is caused by UVA in combo with low D levels.

 

Sunscreens block D producing UVB rays very very well. Sunscreens offer little to no UVA protection most of the time. UVA exposure causes melanoma.

 

It's no shock, therefore, that as s/s use increases, skincancer rates have as well.

 

Sorry about the underline. I couldn't get it to turn off.

 

K

[cillakat]

You know, I was so very, very careful when my dc were little, and am still, but not nearly as much. Studies have shown that it's not the people who are in the sun all the time who have a greater risk, but those who work indoors and then go out & get sunburned. There was one done in Australia, and I don't have the link now, but it showed that skin cancer (the kind caused by UV rays, NOT melanoma which has nothing to do with sun according to the dermatologist I saw--I wasn't in there for cancer) was higher amongst office workers who got too much exposure to the sun than it was in lifeguards who are in it all the time.

 

Yup. B/c the lifeguards in it all the time have higher vitamin D levels which are protective against cancer (breast cancer, lung cancer, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer.....and we'll soon find out protective against melanoma as well)

 

What we do each spring is build up slowly until our skin tans (a good thing)

 

Nope. A tan is sundamage pure and simple. And a tan isn't indicative of improved D levels.

 

It's *easy* to get a tan but still be very deficient in D b/c UVA tans us.....but UVB causes us to mfg D.

 

 

 

I get concerned about the chemicals they put in most of them, so we're switching to mineral sunscreens.

 

Mineral s/s are notoriously poor at blocking UVA, even zinc (which is often billed as 'broad spectrum). Zinc is too inefficient to be helpful at blocking UVA and TiO2 just doesn't cover that portion of the spectrum.

 

 

I'm often on the fence....the key thing of course is to make sure D levels are optimal regardless of how that is accomplished. There are two ways

 

1)take supplements in sufficient amounts year round and wear sunscreen when exposed to sun.

 

OR

 

2)take supplements most of the year in sufficient amounts EXCEPT when it's summer in one's geographical location. Then get DAILY midday sun (noon), in almost no clothes (bikini), for the length of time *just* less than it would take to get a burn (5 mins for some skintones, 5hours for others).......and D on other days.

 

 

 

No matter what, no matter where, incidental exposure doesn't get the job done

 

UVB doesn't penetrate glass

We don't get enough UVB to make D in the winter (even in a bathingsuit....even if you can get tan)

 

Fwiw, I had a great tan when I was finally dx'ed with D deficiency.....

 

:)

K

[Blessedfamily]

which is helpful for melatonin levels, but not D levels.

 

:)

k

 

Yes. I was adressing melatonin and the easy ways to regulate it. It wasn't suggested as a way to get the proper amount of Vitamin D .

 

Fwiw, I was misquoted. I never said this:

 

Originally Posted by cillakat

 

We go out for about 15 minutes between 8 and 8:30 when possible and keep it bright during the day. It's the way mankind was designed to operate and did so before the invention of electricity. Outdoors in the sun during the day and sleeping in darkness at night.

 

We stay out of the sun becasue of skin cancer, but it still regulates our cycadian rhythmn.

 

 

Skincancer isn't caused by UV alone. Skincancer is caused by UVA in combo with low D levels.

 

Sunscreens block D producing UVB rays very very well. Sunscreens offer little to no UVA protection most of the time. UVA exposure causes melanoma.

 

It's no shock, therefore, that as s/s use increases, skincancer rates have as well.

 

Sorry about the underline. I couldn't get it to turn off.

 

K

 

 

Probably mechanical error on this post, because my name is at the top. I made the quoted post.

 

It wasn't meant as a complete analysis of skin cancer. Just a comment as to why people (the "we" was a general "we") avoid the sun, though some sunlight does have natural benefits.:001_smile:

 

I'm no expert. Just sharing what research I found and what helped dramatically, so that SAD is no longer a problem for me.

 

Good health to all!

Au Revoir,

Edited December 9, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[Storm Bay]

Fwiw, I had a great tan when I was finally dx'ed with D deficiency.....

 

:)

K

 

 

I choose my poisons--sunscreen is one I avoid unless I'm in a situation where I will burn without it. Vitamin D is made by sun on skin, so your deficiency may well be linked to something to do with your body, and, chances are, some people are more prone to this than others. Most people get enough vitamin D from adequate sun exposure. There are poisons and toxins everywhere, our bodies start to deteriorate around the age of 20 and there are only so many things we can to to slow it down. Some of the most healthy and fit people die of cancer young for no apparent reason (not thinking only skin cancer here), etc. Honestly, I took avoiding the sun to a huge extreme when my eldest was a baby because I wanted to to it "right" but I question this more now at my age. I don't think any of us can say 100 percent for sure that everyone has the same risk for cancer based solely on their sun exposure, vitamin D, etc. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so it is possible to overdo it, too.

 

While there is a link between sun burn and skin cancer, it's a different skin cancer than melanoma. My dermatologist was very clear about this. The causes of melanoma, the most virulent type of skin cancer, are not the same. The problem is that there are many different studies out there, and none of them are done well. By that I mean that they don't look at enough factors to come to really good conclusions and tend to jump the gun. For example, there's this gene that apparently makes people more likely to get breast cancer, but now they're finding that family history is a far bigger factor. But no one takes everything they can about patients into consideration. Not just diet, excercise, ethnicity, but many other things ought to be documented in cancer patients. But that's totally Off topic here!

[Lovedtodeath]

Well, I have taken melatonin for 4 days and can already tell a huge difference in my motivation. (Sorry, I went the easy route. :) Only 100-150 mcg though) I am also waking up earlier! Yay me! I am planning to get Vit. D. Just haven't gotten around to it yet. I am taking 3 multi's though, so I am getting some extra from that.

 

I have also been making sure that I take my contacts out more often. I got a cleaning solution that works in 5 minutes instead of overnight so that has helped.

[Lovedtodeath]

Where should I get Vit D? I usually try to stick with whole food supplements and avoid synthetic. With vit D being manufactured by the body.... I have no idea what to get or why.

[Alaska Mom]

We do not struggle with ADD/ADHD issues, but I would like to share our system just in case you find it helpful. We've only done it a few times but it was worked brilliantly for us so far.

 

My kids lay out their snowpants right next to their bed each night. When dh wakes them up in the morning, they put the snowpants on right away over their pajamas and eat breakfast with dh like that. Then while dh is finishing his morning routine, we put on our hats/mittens/coats and walk with him to the train station. I do not wear snowpants, but I do have two pairs of wind-resistant pants. I throw on a pair right over my pajamas. I don't do my hair, I just jam on a hat. Once dh goes up to the el the kids and I walk a longer way home so that we are out about half an hour total. Once home we sip tea and read books together in my bed.

 

I LOVE this strider! It makes me want to move somewhere where dh has to walk to work (lol!) so we can tag along! Too cute!

 

I totally agree with exercise and just getting outside and moving. Here in AK I hear about people using the light boxes. I've never had an issue with sad (I actually find the long days of excessive sunlight in the summer to be a bigger problem than the short days of winter - i.e., I can easily stay out gardening till 10 pm which really throws me off). But after reading this thread I stopped into our natural foods store and they confirmed that vit. D, and specifically Vit. D3 will provide better results for sad than a light box. She said nearly everyone is deficient in D3 in winter so I left with a bottle of chewables to try. She said to give it 7 days to see an impact.

 

Thanks for the post - very interesting reading.

[cillakat]

Most people get enough vitamin D from adequate sun exposure.

 

Karen, you can find complete cites if you're interested at vitamindcouncil.org

 

from incidental exposure, almost no one gets optimal, let alone adequate D.

vitamin d deficiency is ubiquitous in the United States and in fact, in most 'modernized' cultures.

 

if one wears clothes, one is blocking most vitamin d production - even in the summer. the idea put forth by the ADA, the *myth* that we get enough D from 15-20 minutes of sun, a few times per week, on our faces and arms is patently untrue.

 

As I've encouraged a large number of my friends, family and acquaintences (online and irl) to get D tested, the results have been startling. Not one person has had acceptable D levels. Not one.

 

My brother lives in Phoenix AZ. He was certain his levels were fine "because I walk the dog twice a day". Of course he walks the dog in the early am and the late pm b/c of the heat. His levels were 7 ng/mL.

 

Families in our homeschool group have been testing....the highest numbers so far? 28 ng/mL, 29 ng/mL and 31 ng/mL in a very very fair family that is outside a lot. 32 ng/mL is currently the low cut off for lab norms in most labs. Unfortunately 32 ng/mL is still associated with multiple health issues. Optimal levels seem to be right around 50-55 ng/mL.

 

It's such an easy issue to fix. I can't wrap my brain around the resistance.

 

If D levels were optimal, cancer death rates could be 50% less.

 

Not to mention death and morbidity issues related to autoimmune disorders like MS, Lupus, Scleroderma and more.

 

K

[cillakat]

Where should I get Vit D? I usually try to stick with whole food supplements and avoid synthetic. With vit D being manufactured by the body.... I have no idea what to get or why.

 

The only 'artificial' D you can currently get is D2, which isn't what you want anyway. it's a biologically inappropriate analog when it comes to human physiology.

 

Get D-3/cholecalciferol. It all comes from fish liver or (very rarely) lanolin.

 

My favorite one is bio-d-mulsion by a company called Biotics Research. it's often hard to find b/c it's only supposed to be sold by hcp's to their own clients. However, there is a chiropractic practice in FL selling it on their website:

 

vitamins4you.com

 

To be able to 'view' it or buy it, you must first (yes first) create an account, then search for it. You'll find the regular Bio-D-Mulsion which is 400 IU per drop. Or the Bio-D-Mulsion forte! which is 2000 IU per drop.

 

I like the 400 IU per drop b/c it allows more flexability in dosing....i can vary it depending on sardine/wild salmon consumption etc.....

 

Dosing recommendations can be found on vitamindcouncil.org

 

As more D literature rolls in (and the body of evidence is large, very large, at this point), the trend in recommendations is moving up. The RDI was jokingly, frighteningly low.

 

The AAP has bumped the "birth-4" recommendation to 400 IU per day and that's probably still to low by at least half based on the available evidence.

 

There are also tons of D3 tiny gel capsules at iherb.com tons of them.....Cheapest price per IU and no vitamin A are the guiding factors.

 

katherine in atl

Edited December 11, 2008 by cillakat

[Christine]

I feel like I am blind because it is NEVER bright enough for me in the house. Is this SAD or something else?

 

Since I had Lasik my eyesight is especially affected by lack of light. If it's cold as well, it's worse.

 

So, if you haven't had Lasik, I wasn't at all helpful. . .

[cillakat]

The causes of melanoma, the most virulent type of skin cancer, are not the same.

 

Right. Melanoma is caused by UVA exposure. I won't post the sad disturbing, well done animal studies that clearly demonstrate this.

 

UVA isn't blocked, or isn't blocked well, by most sunscreens. Highly UVA protective sunscreens have generally been few and far between, but over the last two years, that has changed somewhat. What hasn't changed though is that highly UVA protective s/s that *I* will wear, *are* few and far between.;)

 

The Mexoryl's and Tinosorbs have better protection in the UVA range.....and those containing both tinosorbs and avobenzone will have the very best protection (I'm offering this up just as info.....not trying to convince you since you're clear about avoiding sunscreen). Only one of the Mexoryl filters is available in a few US sunscreens (all under the L'oreal/Cosmair umbrella)....and as of this date, no Tinosorb containing s/s are available in the US.

 

I personally will wear no highly UVA protective *US* sunscreens b/c of the oxybenzone they contain. Oxybenzone is a known endocrine disruptor. I also won't wear mineral sunscreen b/c I have no interest in blocking UVB (makes vitamin d) without blocking UVA (causes sundamage and melanoma) I either want to block both..and across the broadest spectrum of both.....or none. So until then, I use euro s/s containing both tinosorbs and avobenzone when I do wear s/s.

 

:)

katherine

[cillakat]

For example, there's this gene that apparently makes people more likely to get breast cancer, but now they're finding that family history is a far bigger factor. But no one takes everything they can about patients into consideration.

 

What triggers the expression of genes though? Often environmental factors. It could be very possible that d insufficiency is one of those factors.

 

It's looking that way with autism and colon cancer.

 

Katherine

[cillakat]

But after reading this thread I stopped into our natural foods store and they confirmed that vit. D, and specifically Vit. D3 will provide better results for sad than a light box. She said nearly everyone is deficient in D3 in winter so I left with a bottle of chewables

 

Remember that appropriate doses of D are in the range of 2000 IU to 4000 IU per day. That's a lot of chewables:)

 

In the SAD study, they used 100,000 IU, injected

 

Katherine