Algebra 2 questions

[48820592]

I'm still trying to decide about Algebra 2 books.  I have read a lot about Forester and Lial.  I would like a curriculum that does a thorough job of covering trig (unit circle and trig identities) in the Algebra 2 book.  I'm wondering if someone could give me some insight since Amazon doesn't allow me to see the table of contents.  Or maybe there is a different Alg 2 book that you would recommend?

TIA!!

[EKS]

Lial's Intermediate Algebra does not cover trig at all.  It is mostly just Algebra 1 on steroids.  

Edited September 23, 2020 by EKS

[mathnerd]

Brown/Dolciani Structures and methods Alg and Trigonometry (alg book 2) book has coverage of Trigonometry and this is considered a standard high school textbook.
We however used AOPS which goes into great depth in their precalculus book.

Edited September 24, 2020 by mathnerd

[8filltheheart]

Foersters alg 2 book is alg 2 and trig. 

[Quote]The text is divided into 15 chapters, beginning with a brief review. Chapters 1-8 cover topics that are considered intermediate algebra, 9-12 are advanced algebra, and 13-15 cover trigonometry. Chapters include functions & relations, linear functions, systems of linear equations & inequalities, quadratic functions & complex numbers, exponential & logarithmic functions, rational algebraic functions, irrational algebraic functions, quadratic relations & systems, higher-degree functions & complex numbers, sequences & series, probability/data analysis/functions of a random variable, trigonometric & circular functions, properties of trigonometric & circular functions, and triangle problems.[/quote]

[48820592]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:35 PM, EKS said:

Lial's Intermediate Algebra does not cover trig at all.  It is mostly just Algebra 1 on steroids.  

Thanks for letting me know.  We used the Intro Algebra book and liked it and was hoping the Intermediate book would have trig.  

[48820592]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:21 PM, mathnerd said:

Brown/Dolciani Structures and methods Alg and Trigonometry (alg book 2) book has coverage of Trigonometry and this is considered a standard high school textbook.
We however used AOPS which goes into great depth in their precalculus book.

We used AOPS for Pre-Algebra and Algebra with my oldest.  I loved it but the discovery approach was too much for him.  Now you have me thinking that I should check it out.

[48820592]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:54 PM, 8FillTheHeart said:

Foersters alg 2 book is alg 2 and trig. 

[Quote]The text is divided into 15 chapters, beginning with a brief review. Chapters 1-8 cover topics that are considered intermediate algebra, 9-12 are advanced algebra, and 13-15 cover trigonometry. Chapters include functions & relations, linear functions, systems of linear equations & inequalities, quadratic functions & complex numbers, exponential & logarithmic functions, rational algebraic functions, irrational algebraic functions, quadratic relations & systems, higher-degree functions & complex numbers, sequences & series, probability/data analysis/functions of a random variable, trigonometric & circular functions, properties of trigonometric & circular functions, and triangle problems.[/quote]

This is so helpful being able to see what is covered.  It looks like Trig is covered in detail.  Did you use this book?  Thoughts on it?

[8filltheheart]

9 hours ago, 48820592 said:

This is so helpful being able to see what is covered.  It looks like Trig is covered in detail.  Did you use this book?  Thoughts on it?

I have used it multiple times. I like it. It has really prepared my kids well. 

[48820592]

13 hours ago, 8FillTheHeart said:

I have used it multiple times. I like it. It has really prepared my kids well. 

Does it have the odd answers in the back of the book?  

[EmilyGF]

45 minutes ago, 48820592 said:

Does it have the odd answers in the back of the book?  

Yes. My daughter is using this book right now and really likes it. She said, "Why can't all math books be like this?" She finds it very logical and easy to use, as do I. Thankfully. It has taken a long time to find something that has clicked with her.

We do odd problems for the sections that don't have word problems and then all the word problems.

[Jann in TX]

Lets start by clarifying--  Trigonometry is NOT Algebra-- why would you expect it in an Algebra text???? 

Some advanced students can move through Algebra 2 in a semester or 3 quarters so a FEW publishers will add a unit on Trig to fill out the year-- however it is rarely a complete course.

Trigonometry is typically found in a Pre-Calculus course.  Pre-Calculus is one semester of College Algebra (Algebra 3) and one semester of Trigonometry.

Lial Pre-Calculus is a strong text-- it has strong/full/complete coverage of Trigonometry.

The students who struggle the most in college maths (Pre-Calc and above) are usually the ones who rushed through Algebra.

[EKS]

10 minutes ago, Jann in TX said:

Trigonometry is NOT Algebra-- why would you expect it in an Algebra text???? 

True, but an introduction beyond right triangles is standard in Common Core Algebra 2 texts.

[EKS]

Here is the comparison I did of Lial and Derek Owens a few years ago.  I would say that DO is less rigorous than Foerster.  

• DO has a much more extensive and conceptual treatment of graphing throughout the course, specifically how graphs of various functions are shifted up, down, left, right, scaled, and flipped.  This is stressed over and over again whereas Lial mentions it in passing two times.
• DO has a fuller discussion of complex numbers (including a bit of history), which includes graphing complex numbers in the complex plane and determining their absolute value.  
• DO discusses factoring polynomials MUCH more extensively than Lial does.  Lial rehashes how to factor quadratics and then touches on factoring sums and differences of cubes and that is it.  DO introduces the remainder theorem, synthetic division, and the rational zeros theorem to deal with higher degree polynomials.  
• DO's treatment of polynomials in general is far superior to Lial.  He discusses the end behavior of polynomial functions, repeated roots and what they mean graphically.  Eventually students are able to find the roots of functions like f(x)=x^4-5x^3-15x^2-5x-26.  
• DO has a more extensive and conceptual discussion of e.
• DO has a more extensive and conceptual treatment of graphing rational functions, including a detailed discussion of how to find vertical, horizontal, and oblique asymptotes.  Lial mentions vertical and horizontal asymptotes almost as an afterthought and only for very easy functions such as f(x)=2/(x-1) whereas DO talks about functions like f(x)=(x^2+x-6)/(2x+4).
• DO has a more extensive and conceptual treatment of conic sections.
• DO includes a chapter on sequences and series, and Lial does not.
• DO includes two chapters on trigonometry (intro to trig and graphs of trig functions), and Lial does not.

I taught from the Lial book again this past year.  My opinion of it (still) is that it is a solid text for what it is, and that it is great for students who need to tighten up their Algebra 1 skills while moving forward somewhat.  I am teaching this same student precalculus and struggled with whether to use the Lial precalculus text or a newer edition of the text DO uses (Sullivan).  After an extensive review of both texts, I decided on Sullivan because (among other things) I did not like how Lial introduced trig.  I will have to backfill a bit, but since I'm teaching one-on-one (and the student catches on quickly), that will be ok.

[Not_a_Number]

I mean, all of these labels are pretty arbitrary. Trig functions are functions, so it makes perfect sense to study them in an Algebra class, if you so choose...

[Not_a_Number]

38 minutes ago, EKS said:

After an extensive review of both texts, I decided on Sullivan because (among other things) I did not like how Lial introduced trig.

I 100%, totally, absolutely prefer teaching trig starting from the unit circle. That was my very strong experience when teaching precalc over and over and over again. 

Dunno how Sullivan does it, or Lial for that matter, but that's my own 2 cents. 

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_number said:

I 100%, totally, absolutely prefer teaching trig starting from the unit circle.

This was my issue with Lial--that it did something other than this.

[Jann in TX]

On 9/27/2020 at 9:41 AM, EKS said:

This was my issue with Lial--that it did something other than this.

Lial has a specific Pre-Calc text that teaches from the unit circle... and I'm with you on that preference!

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Jann in TX said:

Lial has a specific Pre-Calc text that teaches from the unit circle... and I'm with you on that preference!

I love the unit circle 😄 . 

[EKS]

7 hours ago, Jann in TX said:

Lial has a specific Pre-Calc text that teaches from the unit circle... and I'm with you on that preference!

The unit circle is introduced in the second trig chapter in the precalculus text and the third chapter of the stand alone trig text whereas Derek Owens introduces it in the first trig chapter of both his Algebra 2 and precalculus classes.  I also have the Holt Algebra 2 text sitting right here, and it introduces it in the first trig chapter as well.

So, I agree that the unit circle is taught in Lial, but it takes a while to get to it.  

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, EKS said:

So, I agree that the unit circle is taught in Lial, but it takes a while to get to it.  

Ah, that’s not what I do. I like doing unit circle as the very first thing. That’s what I’ve been doing at AoPS.