iamonlyone Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Our older daughter was hit in the intersection of a 4-way stop. (No one was injured, thankfully!) There was a motorcycle going the other way beside her, so if she hadn't been in the intersection the driver at fault would have hit the motorcyclist. Driver at fault, I'll call her Driver A, is a teen without a license driving a rental car. There was a passenger in the car (maybe the person who rented it?)—and a baby, but that is beside the point. The police took a report but did not assign fault. Dd's insurance says she was not at fault, but now Driver A is saying she is not at fault (a reversal of what she said at the accident). DD has had this car for less than a year and paid about $6000 for it. The repairs may be $4000 or more, and the insurance may decide to declare it totaled. If fault is not assigned, or decided as both were at fault, dd is out a car without resources to buy another one. (She lives 1,800 miles away, so we are no help with rides.) We have no experience with using lawyers or going to court. Is this worth it for such relatively low amounts of money? Since there were no witnesses, would a court even be able to make a decision? I need to leave for an appointment, but I will check in later tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailaena Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Was driver A cited? The rental car company’s insurance will not pay for an accident caused by an unauthorized or illegal driver AND they will go after that person for damages to the rental car, maybe that’s the cause of the reversal of admittance of fault. It’s also possible that they lied to the company about who was driving, so knowing there was a ticket would be helpful and the charge on that ticket would help the insurance companies decide who was at fault (or more at fault depending on state). What about the motorcycle? Was it a residential neighborhood? Maybe somebody has a camera view of the intersection ? with no witnesses or cameras, and two people’s Matching story vs one person’s version of a story, it doesn’t seem good. She could at least consult with a lawyer for a small fee and see what they say. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) That's what I was afraid of. I'll ask if Driver A was cited; I don't know. The motorcyclist didn't stop. Good idea about checking to see if anyone has a door camera or something that would have videoed. I'm a bit concerned that the rental car company will go after dd's insurance. The adult (nondriver) ran away when the police were called, and left dd holding the baby!! so the people with the rental car are not responsible people. Edited January 15, 2020 by iamonlyone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catz Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 An adult fled the scene leaving a teen and a baby to deal with the consequences!? Wow - that is klassy. 🙄 That seems completely suspect to me. I'd definitely check on citation issued and if there might be footage. Ugh - that's a hard one. Lawyer fees quickly add up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, iamonlyone said: That's what I was afraid of. I'll ask if Driver A was cited; I don't know. The motorcyclist didn't stop. Good idea about checking to see if anyone has a door camera or something that would have videoed. I'm a bit concerned that the rental car company will go after dd's insurance. The adult (nondriver) ran away when the police were called, and left dd holding the baby!! so the people with the rental car are not responsible people. 2 hours ago, Ailaena said: Was driver A cited? The rental car company’s insurance will not pay for an accident caused by an unauthorized or illegal driver AND they will go after that person for damages to the rental car, maybe that’s the cause of the reversal of admittance of fault. It’s also possible that they lied to the company about who was driving, so knowing there was a ticket would be helpful and the charge on that ticket would help the insurance companies decide who was at fault (or more at fault depending on state). What about the motorcycle? Was it a residential neighborhood? Maybe somebody has a camera view of the intersection ? with no witnesses or cameras, and two people’s Matching story vs one person’s version of a story, it doesn’t seem good. She could at least consult with a lawyer for a small fee and see what they say. If they lied to the rental car company about who was driving and the authorized driver was not even present by the time the police arrived, it would seem that some of this information must be in the police report, even if Driver A was not cited. Wouldn’t the police have asked for license and registration info and taken names? Has the police report been sent to both the rental car company and your insurance company? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 do you have video? is there traffic camera video from the local jurisdiction? even if you have clear indications of fault - insurance companies (incld. rental insurance companies) - will try to minimize how much they pay out by blaming everyone. (raises hand - and I have video of the entire thing.) with younger drivers, they can be even more ruthless. We're still arguing over fault in my accident - even with video, they want to claim I made an illegal turn so am 50% at fault. except - it was a legal turn and pity the police weren't dispatched (I called 911), because the other drive is the only one who would have been cited. - according to at least two city police officers who saw the video (one described it as "shocking".) the police - bless them - gave me at least two rcw codes about why I made a legal turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 4 hours ago, FuzzyCatz said: An adult fled the scene leaving a teen and a baby to deal with the consequences!? Wow - that is klassy. 🙄 That seems completely suspect to me. I'd definitely check on citation issued and if there might be footage. Ugh - that's a hard one. Lawyer fees quickly add up. I know, right? Apparently the police officer told the driver he was going to give her a citation but then did not. No footage because, in dd's words, it was "in the middle of nowhere." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Frances said: If they lied to the rental car company about who was driving and the authorized driver was not even present by the time the police arrived, it would seem that some of this information must be in the police report, even if Driver A was not cited. Wouldn’t the police have asked for license and registration info and taken names? Has the police report been sent to both the rental car company and your insurance company? The police report was sent to the insurance company; I don't know about the car rental company. My dd's insurance rep told her it seems clear from the police report that the other driver was at fault, but it still could go against her now that the other driver has changed her story and there were no witnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said: do you have video? is there traffic camera video from the local jurisdiction? even if you have clear indications of fault - insurance companies (incld. rental insurance companies) - will try to minimize how much they pay out by blaming everyone. (raises hand - and I have video of the entire thing.) with younger drivers, they can be even more ruthless. We're still arguing over fault in my accident - even with video, they want to claim I made an illegal turn so am 50% at fault. except - it was a legal turn and pity the police weren't dispatched (I called 911), because the other drive is the only one who would have been cited. - according to at least two city police officers who saw the video (one described it as "shocking".) the police - bless them - gave me at least two rcw codes about why I made a legal turn. I actually thought about your story and the hoops you are jumping through! No traffic cam video that I know of. Apparently, it was in a rural area on the outskirts of the city. I hope they give a definitive answer soon. It all seems vague at this point: who will be declared at fault? will the car get fixed or totaled? etc. In the meantime, dd is stuck paying for Uber to get to work and rehearsal. (She is a preschool teacher and a professional ballerina and doesn't have money to burn.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, iamonlyone said: The police report was sent to the insurance company; I don't know about the car rental company. My dd's insurance rep told her it seems clear from the police report that the other driver was at fault, but it still could go against her now that the other driver has changed her story and there were no witnesses. I guess I’m confused as to why Driver A would be believed about anything? As far as I know, rental car companies do not let unlicensed drivers drive their cars. So it seems as though she must have been driving it without authorization. And if the adult wasn’t there when the police arrived, then at a minimum it seems she would have been cited for driving without a license (I’m assuming she had a permit?). It seems like your insurance company should be fighting for your daughter and following up with both the rental car company and the other insurance company, and perhaps even the police. An unlicensed driver alone with a baby driving a car they weren’t authorized to drive causes an accident? It just seems almost beyond comprehension how your daughter could be found at fault. I don’t understand how the police even allowed unlicensed teen Driver A to drive away alone with the baby after the report was finished. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonflower Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I don't think the facts that Driver A was a teenager, unlicensed, was driving a rental unauthorized, had a baby in the car, and had an adult passenger who fled the scene have anything to do with who caused the accident, though. I would follow up with the police department if you can and see if the officer who was going to cite the teenager could at least provide a statement or something to the rental car company or to your daughter's insurance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Frances said: I guess I’m confused as to why Driver A would be believed about anything? As far as I know, rental car companies do not let unlicensed drivers drive their cars. So it seems as though she must have been driving it without authorization. And if the adult wasn’t there when the police arrived, then at a minimum it seems she would have been cited for driving without a license (I’m assuming she had a permit?). It seems like your insurance company should be fighting for your daughter and following up with both the rental car company and the other insurance company, and perhaps even the police. An unlicensed driver alone with a baby driving a car they weren’t authorized to drive causes an accident? It just seems almost beyond comprehension how your daughter could be found at fault. I don’t understand how the police even allowed unlicensed teen Driver A to drive away alone with the baby after the report was finished. they also don't let anyone under 25 drive their cars (except in certain circumstances, and often involving hefty riders.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, iamonlyone said: I actually thought about your story and the hoops you are jumping through! No traffic cam video that I know of. Apparently, it was in a rural area on the outskirts of the city. I hope they give a definitive answer soon. It all seems vague at this point: who will be declared at fault? will the car get fixed or totaled? etc. In the meantime, dd is stuck paying for Uber to get to work and rehearsal. (She is a preschool teacher and a professional ballerina and doesn't have money to burn.) if you have any witnesses (or buildings) ask if anyone had cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 A consultation with a lawyer should be free and they will let you know if you need their service. They will also give you advice about what to do, even if they don’t think you need to hire them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamonlyone Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Frances said: I guess I’m confused as to why Driver A would be believed about anything? As far as I know, rental car companies do not let unlicensed drivers drive their cars. So it seems as though she must have been driving it without authorization. And if the adult wasn’t there when the police arrived, then at a minimum it seems she would have been cited for driving without a license (I’m assuming she had a permit?). It seems like your insurance company should be fighting for your daughter and following up with both the rental car company and the other insurance company, and perhaps even the police. An unlicensed driver alone with a baby driving a car they weren’t authorized to drive causes an accident? It just seems almost beyond comprehension how your daughter could be found at fault. I don’t understand how the police even allowed unlicensed teen Driver A to drive away alone with the baby after the report was finished. Yes, that's how I feel, but when I get past the feelings, I come to Moonflower's conclusion (but I do appreciate you putting into words my frustration!). I wish they took into consideration that our 25 yo dd has a 100% clean driving record, but I don't know if that is how the system works. Thank you, ladies, for the info and the support! Thanks, School, for the info about the free consultation. I did not know that was available. Sounds like it's worth a call, in case the insurance companies decide against dd. Edited January 15, 2020 by iamonlyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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