Curriculum Suggestions - ADHD Learner

[1shortmomto4]

My last student - the neglected one that just seemed to get lost in the shuffle as I worked to remediate, guide, and a whole lot more a few of his older siblings - is ADHD/anxiety.  I've got 2 years to work with him and get him prepared and ready for college.  He has, on his own, been writing a novel - well over 200 pages at this point I believe but we've definitely got work to do on writing and mastering that essay skill but at least he'll write and is very creative!  I need some ideas for history or world geography and science to engage him in learning.  My earlier attempts have failed miserably.  When he was younger it was all about the experiments but he didn't retain much info although the Nancy Larson science stuck.  Too much wording just bogs him down and if things aren't engaging he checks out.  Same with history.  His reading is fine but not strong.  Some days I just want to order a Sonlight package and just read, read, read, to build that skill but he'd probably shut down after the first few days.  He doesn't not enjoy screen learning.  I've looked at everything and feel like Goldilocks - this one is too hard, this one is too black & white, this one is too..... 

He is definitely a tactile learner.  I've found lap books that might work for the older crowd but this mom needs guidance and a lesson plan.  I'm not hung up on whether it is high school level material.  I've already seen what my two oldest had to know at the college level to be prepared well for assignments.  My goal is learning, engaging and retention.  He is willing to learn but his mind easily wanders off...unless he is lost in engagement in something he greatly finds interesting.  Don't we all, right.

As for remediating the ADHD, that is work in progress.  I'm just looking for some fresh ideas, approaches or something I might have missed in that big curriculum world.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

if things aren't engaging he checks out. 

Does he have an area of interest or an angle and have you tried harnessing it?

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

Too much wording just bogs him down

So the challenge is that sounds like more of a language issue than an attention issue. You could do some narrative language testing, get something run for syntax (there's nothing for high school, you'd be running it out of age like the SPELT). How is his reading and his reading comprehension? Is he growing in his use of more complex syntax/sentence structure in his writing? If it's there, then that's a good sign. 

Probably your best bet there is to control the syntax. Walch Powerbasics, books you choose using a lexile finder, whatever. What are you wanting to study? Maybe we can give you ideas. 

Have you tried Great Courses with him? I'm not saying they'll work, just wondering if you tried and how they want. Audio is sucky horrible for me, BUT if you can have visual plus audio (like take notes, something that starts with an outline or powerpoints, whatever), that's not so bad.

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

what my two oldest had to know at the college level to be prepared well for assignments.

Does this dc want to go to college?? Seems like he's on a different path. Can he do some apprenticing or get some work experience to start to figure himself out?

I had my dd do career testing before she started college, and it got her some good info. It's funny because she's a huge doer but is studying a really theoretical field (communications, with a bent toward HR), not her more hands-on interests (costuming). It sort of drove her batty and she finished the school year kinda out of her mind, saying she just needed to DO. So I think whatever you're seeing his mix of bents as in high school is who he is, just my two cents. She's spending the summer costuming for a medieval wedding and cooking, hoping to get back her mojo. I don't know how things will pan out in the long run, but she clearly has both sides (theoretical and hands-on) and needs to feed both. I would feed whatever his bents are. For some kids college is a rabbit trail and they should go technical college or apprentice or learn a trade or whatever. Maybe find the thing he doesn't yet realize he'd be good at and get him some experiences there. We *tried* a lot of things those last two years of high school. Our CC does summer camps to try things, and it was really helpful.

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

His reading is fine but not strong. 

Ok, so I just noticed this. I'm connecting it back to the language/syntax issues. Did you ever have testing on that? I think get really realistic. There's sucky little intervention at this age. You could try, sure, like getting an SLP who specializes in literacy and having the run testing. They could do it and pinpoint what's going on. Might be worth it. Is there a huge gap between what he WANTS to do and what he's ABLE to do? Working on the language would improve a whole bunch of things. At least that's where my ds is, where it's sorta lynchpin. 

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

When he was younger it was all about the experiments but he didn't retain much info although the Nancy Larson science stuck. 

Sometimes really good elementary science (I haven't used NL, but just saying in general) have a lot of repetition to help the kids learn the language. So when you're saying it stuck, you might partly mean he learned the language and could talk about it. Less words, more structure. Is there a gap between what he understands conceptually and what he can talk about or use the words for? Might be interesting to ponder.

Either way, I think that tells you you're looking for something with streamlined language. It's really your choice, looking at him, whether you want to get kind of philosophical/conceptual or focus on terms or what. My dd didn't learn terms well, didn't do textbooks well, so we didn't use them, at least not in a do the textbook typical way. I had a text for biology I used as a spine, but I fleshed it out with things that would interest her. She was really really into history, narrative, people's lives, the drama of people's lives. I tried to look for things in biology, chemistry, etc. that tapped into her need to think about things in terms of narrative, drama of life, controversy. That was the angle she could learn it from. She was never going to learn a long list of terms for a test, kwim? 

For your ds, if he does well with structure (the NL), then I'd probably look for a high structure, concise spine, something with a lower language level. You want shorter sentences basically. Walch Powerbasics, that kind of idea. The workbooks that go with them have creative projects. I've got some things in it but I'm collecting more to use for my ds. I think it will probably be about where he falls. He can do something more complex if I read it to him, but for something that he kinda does for himself the Walch Powerbasics, something with shorter sentences, high structure, etc. is about right. 

I think it's ok to read to him. What you want to do is control the reading level (syntax, the lexile) to get it to where he can engage and respond/interact. With my ds I'm planning (hoping, haha) to use an old AP US History supplement book I picked up years ago. It's not really a text, because that would be too much. It was kind of a DK thing with pictures and lots of controversy. We'll see, but my ds engages in controversy. I think if you find an *angle* your ds engages with and do that, reading together and discussing, it can be good. But it will definitely take some thought. Like maybe it's something kinda out there, I don't know. Whatever really gets him heated or gets his eyebrows up or gets him talking, that's what I'd harness. Ads, politics, whatever, I don't know. Almost anything will work and then you've got this really cool course label. 

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

He is willing to learn but his mind easily wanders off

Just asking the obvious question, is he on meds yet? That's right about when my dd started, and her ACT scores went up 50%, boom. It was utterly astonishing. If he's not yet on meds, it would be the discussion to have.

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

He doesn't not enjoy screen learning. 

Hmm, any idea why? Attention is obvious, but for my ds not engaging with screens goes back to language.

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

I'm not hung up on whether it is high school level material. 

I think there's stuff that people (on the boards) are like oh that's only good enough for junior high, blah blah) and that's true for kids with these off the charts language scores who can do AP work all through high school, lol. But for most kids, I think probably the more streamlined language of things people are saying around here is only good enough for junior high is probably where you'd want to be. K12 has a US and a world history series. There's a redacted (condensed), 4 volume Hakim. The VP history cards, done over say 1-2 years along with one of those spines, could be really stellar. I think it's fine to bring things up and use them in a fresh way. I think take it to the next level with some age-appropriate application that suits him.

What kind of skills or thought processes do you want him to have by the time he leaves? What are his gaps? Ethics? Awareness of the world and public issues? Job skills? Sense of connectedness to community? Leisure skills? Life skills? You can weave those into whatever you're working on, so like the ethics in the history, the politics of the history, leisure skills through history (direct or kinda extended, so re-enacting or movies as lit or gaming...). 

You've got this. I think the hardest thing is the open the flip top of your mind and figure out what this could look like, sigh. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by PeterPan

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

I need some ideas for history or world geography and science to engage him in learning.  My earlier attempts have failed miserably.  When he was younger it was all about the experiments but he didn't retain much info although the Nancy Larson science stuck. 

World geography--Mapping the World with Art by Ellen McHenry is great. Lots of hands-on. The history articles are short (one front and back page), and they are themed--cartography, exploration, etc. My son found that the early articles overlapped very well with his early physics lessons, and that was engaging to him. There are tons of podcasts on Stuff You Missed in History class that would correspond with these topics or even documentaries on Netflix or Prime.

We are doing a biology/ecology next year, and I found two books for history or even English (expository text) that will go well with it but would've gone even better with the Mapping the World stuff... https://www.juniorlibraryguild.com/book/landing/detailedview?itemcode=9781416949008J  (not the full adult version, but much more than a picture book) and https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/1493-for-young-people-charles-mann/1120913151?ean=9781609806316&st=PLA&sid=BNB_ADL+EBooks+Good+Desktop+Low&sourceId=PLAGoNA&dpid=tdtve346c&2sid=Google_c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9NPy8IWP4wIVjYbACh19XQ_jEAYYASABEgI9gfD_BwE  . They are about the Americas pre- and post-Columbus and bring in biology, ecology, cultural information, exploration, economics, and government. I am going to use the books next year to go alongside gov't/econ and bio/ecology. 

This is a resource I hope to use with biology and ecology as well: http://www.naturalinquirer.org/ Lots of free stuff for download. It's basically a science journal that deals with real science data, but they keep the language less technical for Jr. and Sr. High School students. 

Paul Hewitt, Conceptual Physics. There is a sort of syllabus here: http://eclectic-homeschool.com/conceptual-physics-9th-edition-by-paul-hewitt-course-outline/  
TOPS has some labs that go really well with a conceptual physics year. They are short and not heavy on write-ups. 

If you need hands-on that sticks, Ellen McHenry is a great source. She has tons of conceptual games whose goal is to familiarize the students with concepts or detailed factual information or both. But if you want the games to work, you have to fiddle with them and do them. I have found that when I do, they are well worth the time it took. Her biology-related studies cover a lot of what I learned in high school. You might have to add a few things, and they are definitely written to a younger audience when it comes to writing style and humor, but she is really good at making terminology clear rather than just using a lot of terminology. If you did Cells, Botany, and Protozoa in one year, it would go a long way to making a hands-on, conceptually driven biology course. You can see some of her stuff and even download some games for free at https://ellenjmchenry.com/ . Just be sure that if you view a particular activity, you know what course it goes with as some are for even younger kids (like stuff for The Elements). 

You mentioned that it was all about the labs but that didn't drive retention--the games in Ellen McHenry do drive retention, and the lab-like stuff is conceptual too. For instance, in Botany, you do a scavenger hunt that essentially has you looking at the parts of plants you've been studying. There are a lot of free labs online if you need to round out the course with some formal labwork to write up. 

Quote

Too much wording just bogs him down and if things aren't engaging he checks out.  Same with history.  His reading is fine but not strong. 

 He doesn't not enjoy screen learning.  I've looked at everything and feel like Goldilocks - this one is too hard, this one is too black & white, this one is too..... 

He is definitely a tactile learner.  I've found lap books that might work for the older crowd but this mom needs guidance and a lesson plan.  I'm not hung up on whether it is high school level material.  I've already seen what my two oldest had to know at the college level to be prepared well for assignments.  My goal is learning, engaging and retention.  He is willing to learn but his mind easily wanders off...unless he is lost in engagement in something he greatly finds interesting.  Don't we all, right.

As for remediating the ADHD, that is work in progress.  I'm just looking for some fresh ideas, approaches or something I might have missed in that big curriculum world.

I am also hearing the language issues bell going off because I am dealing with that here in two different ways. Both of my kids have ADHD. One child is dyslexic, but otherwise, his language is great. It's just "too much" and fatiguing, and he doesn't pick up new vocabulary as easily as he would otherwise. He is creative and likes to write. The other one has expressive language problems that interfere with writing a lot and reading sometimes. That particular child is unlikely to go to college unless it's late. He wants to be a mechanic, and he lives and breathes to make that a reality, lol! He is my hands-on learner.

When you say he doesn't enjoy screen learning, I am wondering if you mean video lectures, Khan Academy, and Teaching Textbooks types of screen learning, or if you mean he doesn't do videos. My son wouldn't particularly appreciate Khan Academy and such, but he will watch videos demonstrating all kinds of things, especially his car stuff. He loves the physics videos that are part of the physics syllabus I linked to. He LOVES documentaries that put things in context. If he needs to learn to do something around the house or to a car, he speaks fluent youtube for those things. 

He also does better if he reads things out loud to himself. He reads with great expression, and he hears the meaning of ideas (one being subordinate to the other, etc.) with his ear better than reading them on the page. The inflection in people's voices when they express ideas is really, really powerful to him in a way that doesn't happen when he reads a page silently.

One the underlined...I might be stepping on toes, but I am going to be blunt...if you aren't using meds, you need to consider it. If you are, you might different ones or a different dose.

With what you have going on here, it's really hard to tell if his ADHD is causing the inattention while reading/learning, or he has a language deficit, or both. Or if he's just super hands-on because the ADHD plus a language issue makes it really hard for him to learn any other way. For instance, I have a family member that is very hands-on but also has the capability to learn from a book. But, my son who is super hands-on and has language issues has a much harder time learning from a book both due to the language issue and due to his bent of being hands-on. So, school is much harder for him than for my other family member that simply prefers hands-on learning. Very, very different.

I am not sure what you mean by remediating ADHD. You can teach strategies, but ADHD is always there. Some people compensate fine without meds, but most people have a big trade-off if they don't medicate, and that trade-off might be productivity, fatigue, frustration, limited ability to enjoy hobbies due to extra effort, etc. All I know is that with how much meds help my kids, I wish I'd not heard so much scary, stupid crap about meds (that is either not true or greatly exaggerated) because it would've been helpful to have them earlier (and we started earlier than some parents). Meds don't replace strategies, but they make learning strategies (and learning everything else) easier.

As for meds making kids zombies or whatever else people like to say...being constantly out to lunch or hyperfocused is not exactly un-zombie-like. 😉 

[kbutton]

Also, the anxiety can be related directly to the ADHD. When we medicated my older son for ADHD, what anxiety he had basically evaporated. He did, at first, get a little social anxiety in the sense that if he was up in front of people doing something, he felt conspicuous, but that is normal. For him, that was totally absent before ADHD meds. He was clueless about people looking at him and forming opinions about his abilities. He never felt that before ADHD meds. Some of his tutors talked to him about that feeling and assured him that a sense of inhibition is healthy, and even talked about the flip side of what people do when they don't have that feeling (including examples of stupid stuff, lol!). We also discussed that some people medicate with drugs and alcohol to avoid that feeling, but that the vast majority of people use that feeling to keep them from doing stupid things, and they learn to cope with feeling conspicuous in healthy ways. 

Either way, I am sure he sense that his experience of life is different due to his attention issues, and that can cause anxiety as well. 

Sometimes they are just co-morbid without one causing the other.

[Pen]

2 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

My last student - the neglected one that just seemed to get lost in the shuffle as I worked to remediate, guide, and a whole lot more a few of his older siblings - is ADHD/anxiety.  I've got 2 years to work with him and get him prepared and ready for college.

 

It doesnt sound like most colleges would be good fit. Unless you mean cc toward a trade? Or someplace hands on like Evergreen State? Or a similar perhaps exists in I think Arizona 

what does he want “to do when he’s grown up”?

does it require college?

2 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

  He has, on his own, been writing a novel - well over 200 pages

 

Cool!

2 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

at this point I believe but we've definitely got work to do on writing and mastering that essay skill but at least he'll write and is very creative!  I need some ideas for history or world geography

The geography coloring book is quite good. And a form of tactile

 

2 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

and science to engage him in learning.  My earlier attempts have failed miserably.  When he was younger it was all about the experiments but he didn't retain much info although the Nancy Larson science stuck.  Too much wording just bogs him down and if things aren't engaging he checks out.  Same with history.  His reading is fine but not strong.  Some days I just want to order a Sonlight package and just read, read, read, to build that skill but he'd probably shut down after the first few days.  He doesn't not enjoy screen learning.  I've looked at everything and feel like Goldilocks - this one is too hard, this one is too black & white, this one is too..... 

He is definitely a tactile learner.  I've found lap books that might work for the older crowd but this mom needs guidance and a lesson plan.  I'm not hung up on whether it is high school level material.  I've already seen what my two oldest had to know at the college level to be prepared well for assignments.  My goal is learning, engaging and retention.  He is willing to learn but his mind easily wanders off...unless he is lost in engagement in something he greatly finds interesting.  Don't we all, right.

As for remediating the ADHD, that is work in progress.  I'm just looking for some fresh ideas, approaches or something I might have missed in that big curriculum world.

 

Doing projects? Like choose an interesting person (historical or in science) from your state to learn about?  And let him use his own creative approach? 

Come up with his own questions about the world (science) and try to answer them?

nature study?

[PeterPan]

The problem with significant projects for high school for a very ADHD dc is follow-through. With my dd, I did more hindsight, turning things she did into credits. She was studying costuming anyway, so I got her a pictorial encyclopedia that she read a bit, counted the hours for projects she did, and boom credit. But it's not like I said that from the beginning. ADHD follow-through can be very shoddy.

 

[1shortmomto4]

Thank you all for your responses.  I think it has helped me refocus - more on finding things to spark creativity and less on a typical "box" of curriculum.  I'm not sure that there is a language problem.  What I do know is he is extremely sensitive to sound.  Years ago when our oldest with dx with his severe hearing impairment we had the other kids tested to be sure they were not also suffering from any hearing loss.  Two kiddos in the middle were fine but the joke at the time was that the youngest could hear so well that he could hear grass grow.  I didn't realize at the time how that really isn't a great thing.  They are constantly hearing sounds that others might not hear and hear them louder and over time your brain just can't keep processing at this speed.  Overall, he has done well but probably because our home is more sensitive to sounds because of his oldest brother.  He is more comfortable at home versus going out but when we do go out and about he is fine.  When he was little, say 4/5/6 I used to read a story each night.  At one point I started reading chapter books and I read the Dr. Dolittle book from Sonlight and he'd fall asleep but the other boys were still listening.  Well, wouldn't you know that the next day he was the one who remembered everything I read the night before!  I could probably put ear phones on him for a book on tape and he'll retain the whole thing in his sleep.

I'd like to work on making his reading comprehension stronger in regards to when he reads it versus when I read it.  He does read non-fiction books - loves WW books, Far East subjects, Middle Ages, weaponry, etc. for fun and can tell me about everything he reads.  We used Spelling U See over the past few years but after the first day of marking the words he just knows how to spell everything.  He is very much a natural speller and doesn't need a spelling program but his brother did so it just made things easier in peace keeping.

He literally grew up playing nearby and listening in to most of the lessons I would teach over the years to his older siblings so when it came time to focus on a lesson he wasn't up for any repeated info!  Except for Math-this is something that has not come easily until most recently.  He has really struggled in Algebra although when he was in 5th/6th he learned Hands on Equations to build a foundation in Algebra and picked up on it FAST.  We were working through an algebra unit (Systematic Mathematics) and it was a slow start but he finally got it and retained it.  We'll keep working through the next book but sadly the company is no longer in business so I can't get my hands on the geometry so I'm going to have to find another option.  I have MathUSee Geometry on the shelf but not sure this would work the best.  I like that it is easier to teach (this is one math subject that is NOT my strength).  His sister was like this but after geometry and achieving great success it seemed to unlock something in her brain and Algebra made much more sense and math became her strongest subject.

He doesn't mind watching a short lecture or video presentation on the screen but doesn't like to read from a screen or definitely not do math on the screen.  He wanted to learn Russian - which he tried but I didn't follow up on making sure he actually stuck with the lessons.  He ended up using goggle translate - his story that he is writing has Russian and German dialogue - go figure.

I recently had him and his brother take a battery of online tests from youscience (check it out!) that helps identify their strengths and weaknesses and it provides a whole slew of possible job ideas to consider.  It was money well spent.  He doesn't seem to have any direction of interest although when he was younger he thought he'd enjoy becoming an ENT.  It is important to note that none of my 3 boys have had any drive towards a particular field of interest.  They mature a bit later and slowly find their path.  The results confirmed what I thought I have observed over the years.  He does well in a position where something isn't working and he can identify the problem and then come up with solutions to fix it.  He is not the guy to write the software program but he is the one to debug it and make it work and make it work better.  He would do well as an orthodontist-you look at the issues and then fix it.

I'm thinking I should find a computer course perhaps this year to give that a try and see if he doesn't grab hold of an interest. 

As for meds, not at this time.  I've actually not seen any issues until most recently that would warrant them.  I'm not against them; they have their benefits. 

And I have to agree - ADHD and follow thru is a big issue.  I'm going to work with him on tools to keep him on task - due dates, etc. I just seem to function in a more organized way but these people I live with are a different story 😉

Edited June 30, 2019 by 1shortmomto4

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

They are constantly hearing sounds that others might not hear and hear them louder and over time your brain just can't keep processing at this speed.  Overall, he has done well but probably because our home is more sensitive to sounds because of his oldest brother.  He is more comfortable at home versus going out but when we do go out and about he is fine. 

So two parts to this. One is how they do with background noise. It's only one part of APD, but it's a big part. Another piece is overall sensory hypersensitivity. Is he also sensitive to textures, fabric, pressure on his skin, feeling overwhelmed by clutter, etc.? My dd actually had both pieces going on, and when we had her to the audiologist they did some auditory hypersensitivity testing (which hurt her incredibly) and were like what are you whining about, your parameters are normal. So by the numbers she's normal but by how her body FEELS it it's excruciating. And for the APD part (which for her is only background but which typically has more pieces), we went out to ABLE Kids and got a filter.

As far as the processing speed, yes there's the overall processing speed that you get with IQ testing (huge issue for my dd as it's very low relative to IQ) and there are issues in that auditory processing with how the two ears hear, whether they're syncing up and processing at the same speeds, etc. There's a theory that the filter is supposed to help with that.

Fwiw there's some research showing a connection between serotonin levels and sensory hypersensitivity. Implication being it could be treatable. There's also the theory that working on interoception would at least help them calm the barrage of signals.

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

I'd like to work on making his reading comprehension stronger in regards to when he reads it versus when I read it. 

Which way is it stronger?

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

He does read non-fiction books - loves WW books, Far East subjects, Middle Ages, weaponry, etc. for fun and can tell me about everything he reads. 

This is really good! So then if he's doing well with non-fiction but not fiction, we would ask about the narrative language piece. Sometimes people aren't following the narrative very well. It's just something to think through. And males in general can be more concise, so I think sometimes it's easy to discount as personality something that is a language issue. 

 

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

He wanted to learn Russian - which he tried but I didn't follow up on making sure he actually stuck with the lessons. 

Just a total aside there, a went to a school my last couple years of high school that had russian, like serious russian, taught by a lady with a master's using a college text. I FAILED it the first year, completely failed it. Well you could say I didn't fail, because she probably gave me a B or something, lol. The school didn't emphasize grades, didn't do GPAs or class rank, so I have no clue what my grades were. But it was bad enough I knew I couldn't continue the next year and do well, lol. So that summer as we were leaving campus I STOLE the textbook, refusing to return it. The lady was like where's the textbook? It's not here, see? LOL So I paid $28 for the text, took it home, POURED over that stupid thing. That summer I learned how to study. I think I also really flopped at AP Chemistry too. I hadn't had any other chemistry or even physical science for that matter, and I just wasn't ready to extract everything. I repeated that too!

In other words, it's ok to fail. I like that you were following through. I just think that sometimes people who are destined to do well sometimes fail initially. I went on to get a minor in russian, go to Russia for a summer, etc. I just also had some failures along the way, lol. They were good learning curves.

MUS was good for my dd for learning how to learn. We didn't use their geometry because we did the BJU together (rough, rough). What about Patty Paper Geometry for him? It's a shame there isn't a more hands-on approach as it sounds like he's a whiz with that. Does he also seem to have a strength with visualizing? You would think geometry would appeal to that.

I think 3 times through algebra is common for ADHD kids. I'm not saying it should be that way, just saying don't be shocked. If he hasn't done algebra 2 yet, you might run *both* of them and do it concurrently so he doesn't lose so much. Otherwise you might get to his senior year and cry. Just saying. 

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

none of my 3 boys have had any drive towards a particular field of interest.  They mature a bit later and slowly find their path.

I think that's the norm for ADHD. 

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

He does well in a position where something isn't working and he can identify the problem and then come up with solutions to fix it.  He is not the guy to write the software program but he is the one to debug it and make it work and make it work better.  He would do well as an orthodontist-you look at the issues and then fix it.

The career testing my dd did through the university (which you can do for free through your cc if you enroll or sweet talk 'em maybe), I think it was the Strong's Interest Inventory, anyways it cranks out some scores beyond what actual areas interest you and show the TYPE of work that interests you. I forget the sections, but it was like technical (hands-on), computational, relational, blah blah, I forget. They were categories. And she was saying she wanted to study costuming but her Strong's was saying she wasn't wanting to TECH. Well costumers (unless they're the rare designer at the top) tech. So she likes to tech a little, but it's not a 40 hour a week thing for her. Doesn't matter what the tech/hands-on is, reality is she's more like 30/30/30 across some areas and teching for a living wasn't one of them. So that's another thing to think through, how in general he wants to earn his living (with his hands, by directing people, etc.). There were categories like that.

So my ds is like yours with kind of that engineering mindset. I think my ds could be brilliant at some kind of repair. And remember repair comes in all kinds of levels of skill and training and pay. I have an aunt who repaired/maintenanced jets for the military, a brother who did HVAC on big buildings, a cousin who repairs trains (for real, like they have him all over the country keeping trains running, lol). For my ds, I'm thinking appliance repair or may gun repair. I have an uncle who started in tool/dye at a factory and later in life, around 40, got sent to get his degree in engineering so they could send him to other jobs, go figure. You just never know. He was more on that late bloomer, crazy/wild/adhd side. 

3 hours ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

As for meds, not at this time. 

 

On June 29, 2019 at 9:44 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

He is willing to learn but his mind easily wanders off...unless he is lost in engagement in something he greatly finds interesting.  Don't we all, right.

So yes, ADHD is genetic, so sure it might be normal in your family, lol. To me meds are a case by case thing. I'm always sad when I see teens who want them and who are underperforming and are depressed because they know they're underperforming and aren't being given access.

Edited June 30, 2019 by PeterPan

[Heathermomster]

My DS is diagnosed inattentive ADHD but I never considered it when selecting materials.  I just kinda knew what was likely to work and was pleasantly surprised to be wrong on occasion.  

DS used MUS Geometry and MUS Algebra 2.  For Algebra 1A, we used 1/2 Foerster’s and for Algebra 1B, we used 1/2 Lial’s Introductory Algebra 8th ed.  I supplemented the work with Khan Academy, James Tanton, math graphing software, and supplementary books picked up from Amazon.

For years, DS has preferred non-fiction; however, he did eventually enjoy Hawthorne, Dickens, Charlotte Bronte, and Twain in high school.  Over most of his classes, I supplemented with documentaries and Teaching Company lectures.  I used my Audible subscription which saved money with the TC products.

DS worked with a CBT for EF his 11th grade year.  DS cannot take stimulant meds and had a bad Strattera trial.  He opted not to pursue meds again  until working with the CBT first.  The CBT work has helped with his sustained attention.  Maybe consider working with a CBT that shares an office with a child psychiatrist who can prescribe meds if necessary.  

Overall, we used normal curriculum but supplemented and modified when appropriate.  I never thought online learning worked well for him, but then he completed two years of online Autocad classes.  DS regularly used Youtube to figure things out.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Heathermomster

[SanDiegoMom]

Big History has materials online that are free -- it is short readings, short and varied videos, and very scaffolded writing assignments (They are called Investigations, and involve short sources that are provided that then are used to formulate and prove a thesis).  It has a high amount of variety.

Oxford University Press has different history books on Ancient Times, Middle Ages , and up through the Renaissance and Enlightenment. They are called the World in Ancient Times, Medieval and Early Modern World, etc.  They are highly readable, short chapters, and there are study guides that go with them. It is middle school level. 

 

Re Meds: My daughter went on meds this past year as a college student.  She would have managed without them -- she is incredibly academic and purposefully chooses things that are high interest.   She had no idea that what she felt wasn't normal. When she went on meds it was like putting on glasses after having had extremely blurred vision.  Sometimes she falls into a rut of self pity for all the years she WASN'T on meds.  I tell her to be grateful that at 19 she DID and that she still has the rest of her life ahead of her.  Her life still isn't easy, but the distance between her starting point and that of her fellow students is greatly reduced. 

And we would never let her drive without meds.  She had three accidents in a year, and the last drive she did before meds she didn't see a pedestrian and child in the crosswalk -- literally didn't see them.  She quite driving and didn't start again until on meds.  She was terrified of hurting someone.  

Other things that help are yoga, meditation and exercise.  They help A LOT.  

[Pen]

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

Thank you all for your responses.  I think it has helped me refocus - more on finding things to spark creativity and less on a typical "box" of curriculum.  I'm not sure that there is a language problem.  What I do know is he is extremely sensitive to sound. 

 

Cotton or ear ear plugs that would dampen down sounds though not completely eliminate might help concentrating 

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

Years ago when our oldest with dx with his severe hearing impairment we had the other kids tested to be sure they were not also suffering from any hearing loss.  Two kiddos in the middle were fine but the joke at the time was that the youngest could hear so well that he could hear grass grow.  I didn't realize at the time how that really isn't a great thing.  They are constantly hearing sounds that others might not hear and hear them louder and over time your brain just can't keep processing at this speed.  Overall, he has done well but probably because our home is more sensitive to sounds because of his oldest brother.  He is more comfortable at home versus going out but when we do go out and about he is fine.  When he was little, say 4/5/6 I used to read a story each night.  At one point I started reading chapter books and I read the Dr. Dolittle book from Sonlight and he'd fall asleep but the other boys were still listening.  Well, wouldn't you know that the next day he was the one who remembered everything I read the night before!  I could probably put ear phones on him for a book on tape and he'll retain the whole thing in his sleep.

 

Sounds like audio learning could be a big help then

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

I'd like to work on making his reading comprehension stronger in regards to when he reads it versus when I read it.  He does read non-fiction books - loves WW books, Far East subjects, Middle Ages, weaponry, etc. for fun and can tell me about everything he reads.  We used Spelling U See over the past few years but after the first day of marking the words he just knows how to spell everything.  He is very much a natural speller and doesn't need a spelling program but his brother did so it just made things easier in peace keeping.

He literally grew up playing nearby and listening in to most of the lessons I would teach over the years to his older siblings so when it came time to focus on a lesson he wasn't up for any repeated info!  Except for Math-this is something that has not come easily until most recently.  He has really struggled in Algebra although when he was in 5th/6th he learned Hands on Equations to build a foundation in Algebra and picked up on it FAST.  We were working through an algebra unit (Systematic Mathematics) and it was a slow start but he finally got it and retained it.  We'll keep working through the next book but sadly the company is no longer in business so I can't get my hands on the geometry so I'm going to have to find another option.  I have MathUSee Geometry on the shelf but not sure this would work the best

Why not try MUS algebra? Short videos could be a help.  Maybe add Khan academy videos if needed 

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

.  I like that it is easier to teach (this is one math subject that is NOT my strength).  His sister was like this but after geometry and achieving great success it seemed to unlock something in her brain and Algebra made much more sense and math became her strongest subject.

He doesn't mind watching a short lecture or video presentation on the screen but doesn't like to read from a screen or definitely not do math on the screen.  He wanted to learn Russian - which he tried but I didn't follow up on making sure he actually stuck with the lessons.  He ended up using goggle translate - his story that he is writing has Russian and German dialogue - go figure.

I recently had him and his brother take a battery of online tests from youscience (check it out!) that helps identify their strengths and weaknesses and it provides a whole slew of possible job ideas to consider.  It was money well spent.  He doesn't seem to have any direction of interest although when he was younger he thought he'd enjoy becoming an ENT. 

 

Ear Nose Throat Doctor?

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

It is important to note that none of my 3 boys have had any drive towards a particular field of interest.  They mature a bit later and slowly find their path.  The results confirmed what I thought I have observed over the years.  He does well in a position where something isn't working and he can identify the problem and then come up with solutions to fix it.  He is not the guy to write the software program but he is the one to debug it and make it work and make it work better.  He would do well as an orthodontist-you look at the issues and then fix it.

 

Sounds like an excellent strength!!!  Lots of fields could use that. 

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

I'm thinking I should find a computer course perhaps this year to give that a try and see if he doesn't grab hold of an interest. 

 

Sounds like a good idea. 

On 6/30/2019 at 6:14 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

As for meds, not at this time.  I've actually not seen any issues until most recently that would warrant them.  I'm not against them; they have their benefits. 

And I have to agree - ADHD and follow thru is a big issue.  I'm going to work with him on tools to keep him on task - due dates, etc. I just seem to function in a more organized way but these people I live with are a different story 😉

 

How about ADHD coaching or books or programs he could try? 

 

Maybe work on his reading comprehension via him reading about ADHD and strategies to deal with it.

[1shortmomto4]

I love the books about ADHD.  Sounds like a great idea as he is my thinker and this might help him process his feelings a little better.

We tried MUS Algebra but it wasn't sticking - although now that we've used something else I might go back because the something else didn't cover the graphing stuff found in Algebra.  I may also try the MUS Geometry to begin with since I've already got it and just maybe it that might help.  I've found some hands-on visual stuff - a white board style grid the size of paper that might be helpful, too.

Again, thank you all for the great ideas and suggestions.  I appreciate you sharing your experiences with me - lots to think about and consider. 

[PeterPan]

15 minutes ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

a white board style grid the size of paper that might be helpful, too.

Yes, you can get smaller whiteboards and whiteboards preprinted with graphing lines. I like a 17X20 magnetic whiteboard, because it's big enough to hold equations, draw out physics problems, and diagram. 

This isn't magnetic (meaning eventually it won't erase well), but it's $6 https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Resources-Double-Sided-Coordinate/dp/B00JXDKIB6/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_229_img_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=KQCZFK18JCK7391W2Z3H

[PeterPan]

17 minutes ago, 1shortmomto4 said:

this might help him process his feelings a little better.

Feelings about what?

Awareness and self-advocacy go hand in hand, definitely.

Edited July 2, 2019 by PeterPan

[SanDiegoMom]

On 7/2/2019 at 10:03 AM, 1shortmomto4 said:

I love the books about ADHD.  Sounds like a great idea as he is my thinker and this might help him process his feelings a little better.

 

There's a youtube series that has helped my dd a lot -- How to ADHD.  A lot of good help for EF (setting routines, using planners in a way that works better with the ADHD brain). Understanding emotions (anger, rejection sensitivity) and the one I liked best -- How to get over the "Wall of Awful".  i.e. how to help yourself do something when you are not motivated. I have watched a lot myself to understand what she is going through, and it's helped me understand our intense struggles while she was growing up. Good stuff.  And short snippets on each subcategory which is good for attention:) 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SanDiegoMom in VA

[1shortmomto4]

Quick question but didn't want to start a new thread - someone suggested (I believe PeterPan) using the A History of US concise volumes for history and work off of that series to create a course.  Well, we have this awesome used bookstore that I visit frequently and they had the first 2 volumes for .75 cents each!  I picked them up as they were basically brand new and in excellent condition.  I've looked and owned a few of the books from the 10 volume set but boy, these books are really, really nice - colorful and font is a great size for reading and very engaging.  So I looked around and see that K12 offered a teacher's "guide" for each volume along with a guide for the student but I can't find a sample online anywhere.  K12 has gone completely digital so these books are hard to come by.  Has anyone seen what is inside one of these books/guides?  Just trying to figure out if buying them would save me some time in trying to recreate the wheel, so to speak.

I wish the Trail Guide to Learning stuff wasn't so expensive because I know my guy would love the 2nd guide and it stretches to 8th grade levels - just the right amount of history and skills!

[PeterPan]

Haven't seen them but they seem like a good idea!