this came over an autism feed today...

[wendyroo]

I've never worked in a trophy manufacturing position, but I kind of doubt that employees actually closely read every inscription.  I expect the customer enters the inscriptions online (so that all spelling mistakes are their fault as opposed to if an employee entered the text), a machine cranks out the little adhesive-backed plaques, and an employee grabs the correct trophy bases, slaps on the plaques and ships them out.  I bet that after sticking plaques to umpteen trophies their eyes don't even register the words anymore.

I think this one is solely on the teacher.

Wendy

[Tanaqui]

You're probably right, wendyroo, though they may have simple filters in place to prevent people from using profanity and slurs. Or, then again, they may not. Who knows.

[kiwik]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:42 AM, katilac said:

No, I've never heard of trophies being reused. Someone would have to type up the list of trophies, yes, but it may have been that teacher who did it (or they all turned in their own list to the trophy shop).

I think that every six weeks is overkill, but don't be too quick to write off alternative awards as meaningless. To kids who struggle and rarely get positive recognition, that participation award might be very meaningful indeed. 

OK.  I have never seen a trophy except sports ones and they were usually returned.  It seems oddly expensive to give a trophy to keep when a certificate would do.  I guess the teacher could have typed it.  If I was asked to engrave that on a trophy I would query it but most people wouldn't and it is a trait that has got me in trouble more than once.

With the seeing other people's point of view.  I have no ASD diagnosis but... Very few people are able to see my point of view.  If you have ASD and see things differently and nobody seems to understand or care then how would you develop the ability to work out another person's point of view (and there are many possibilities) or even know you should?  If people are constantly doing things you consider offensive and laughing about it how are you supposed to work out that you are not supposed to do X,y and z so as not to offend NT people.  And how is that reasonable anyway?

[maize]

1 hour ago, kiwik said:

OK.  I have never seen a trophy except sports ones and they were usually returned.  It seems oddly expensive to give a trophy to keep when a certificate would do.  

I know of major trophies that are passed to the new champion each year as described, but around here it is also very common to give inexpensive trophies to lots of people for lots of things. I know kids personally who have dozens upon dozens of trophies gathering dust on shelves. One of my own kids just came home with two from a tournament. 

[katilac]

5 hours ago, kiwik said:

 With the seeing other people's point of view.  I have no ASD diagnosis but... Very few people are able to see my point of view.  If you have ASD and see things differently and nobody seems to understand or care then how would you develop the ability to work out another person's point of view (and there are many possibilities) or even know you should?  If people are constantly doing things you consider offensive and laughing about it how are you supposed to work out that you are not supposed to do X,y and z so as not to offend NT people.  And how is that reasonable anyway?

Those questions cover a lot of territory, but I'll give them a go (as a non-expert in ASD, mind): 

How do you know it's important? Because other people tell you so. Parents and teachers spend a good bit of time urging children to consider things from another person's point of view - including NT children. I've had kids on the spectrum in my life on both a work and personal basis, and I can't say that any of them have been unaware that they should consider others' points of view. Resistant to the concept, yes, struggling with it, yes, but not unaware of it. Of course I'm not saying that's true for every kid with ASD. 

How do you develop the ability to do it? There are a lot of resources today that weren't available when we were growing up. People with ASD are likely to need explicit and repeated instruction, using what is generally called social thinking strategies and materials. And, if you would read this engraving on the job and immediately want to ask the customer about it, you do have the ability. It might be somewhat selectively applied, but you would clearly be thinking about the point of view of the recipient. 

You are correct that there can be many possibilities as to another person's point of view. That's why the most important thing is not to suss it out precisely, but to simply acknowledge that it exists and that people can make different decisions without one of them being wrong.  

"how are you supposed to work out that you are not supposed to do X,y and z so as not to offend NT people" <<<< This doesn't really give me enough info to answer bc x, y, and z could be anything, and the trigger could be anything. The most basic answer is that you are meant to mind your own business. Does that mean there is never a circumstance in which you should speak up? No, of course not, but generally you should stay in your own lane. If, as you say, you are constantly offended by others' words and actions, then I'd say you are generally overreaching and overthinking. 

To get back to the original post and why I say it's not the trophy shop's job to police these things: it's easy to think that this award would stand out, but I seriously doubt it did. People have weird things engraved all the time, many of them based on inside jokes and such. We have context, they did not, it was just another order that they engraving (not reading for content). If they did read for content, they would constantly be asking customers for clarification (bc varying senses of humor, inside jokes, etc). 

"This trophy says Most Annoying Male, and I notice it's an elementary school. Do you think that's appropriate?"

"It's for a teacher, it's an inside joke thank-you-very-much." 

"These trophies say Jerk and B*tch. Do you think that's appropriate?" 

"It's a Supernatural fan club, you idjit." 

My imagination fails me, but, 9 times out of 10, it would not be a case of someone being cruel to a child. It's not their job to police and I myself would probably be rather annoyed if they questioned me about my order. If someone doesn't want to ever engrave anything they personally consider inappropriate or rude, then they are in the wrong line of business. People have wildly varying ideas of inappropriate (particularly within their own circles). 

 

[Terabith]

3 minutes ago, katilac said:

Those questions cover a lot of territory, but I'll give them a go (as a non-expert in ASD, mind): 

How do you know it's important? Because other people tell you so. Parents and teachers spend a good bit of time urging children to consider things from another person's point of view - including NT children. I've had kids on the spectrum in my life on both a work and personal basis, and I can't say that any of them have been unaware that they should consider others' points of view. Resistant to the concept, yes, struggling with it, yes, but not unaware of it. Of course I'm not saying that's true for every kid with ASD. 

How do you develop the ability to do it? There are a lot of resources today that weren't available when we were growing up. People with ASD are likely to need explicit and repeated instruction, using what is generally called social thinking strategies and materials. And, if you would read this engraving on the job and immediately want to ask the customer about it, you do have the ability. It might be somewhat selectively applied, but you would clearly be thinking about the point of view of the recipient. 

You are correct that there can be many possibilities as to another person's point of view. That's why the most important thing is not to suss it out precisely, but to simply acknowledge that it exists and that people can make different decisions without one of them being wrong.  

"how are you supposed to work out that you are not supposed to do X,y and z so as not to offend NT people" <<<< This doesn't really give me enough info to answer bc x, y, and z could be anything, and the trigger could be anything. The most basic answer is that you are meant to mind your own business. Does that mean there is never a circumstance in which you should speak up? No, of course not, but generally you should stay in your own lane. If, as you say, you are constantly offended by others' words and actions, then I'd say you are generally overreaching and overthinking. 

To get back to the original post and why I say it's not the trophy shop's job to police these things: it's easy to think that this award would stand out, but I seriously doubt it did. People have weird things engraved all the time, many of them based on inside jokes and such. We have context, they did not, it was just another order that they engraving (not reading for content). If they did read for content, they would constantly be asking customers for clarification (bc varying senses of humor, inside jokes, etc). 

"This trophy says Most Annoying Male, and I notice it's an elementary school. Do you think that's appropriate?"

"It's for a teacher, it's an inside joke thank-you-very-much." 

"These trophies say Jerk and B*tch. Do you think that's appropriate?" 

"It's a Supernatural fan club, you idjit." 

My imagination fails me, but, 9 times out of 10, it would not be a case of someone being cruel to a child. It's not their job to police and I myself would probably be rather annoyed if they questioned me about my order. If someone doesn't want to ever engrave anything they personally consider inappropriate or rude, then they are in the wrong line of business. People have wildly varying ideas of inappropriate (particularly within their own circles). 

 

That's a good point I hadn't considered.  Thank you.

[kiwik]

On 6/6/2019 at 7:11 AM, Innisfree said:

 

Mistake.  Sorry

Edited June 27, 2019 by kiwik

[kiwik]

On 6/8/2019 at 3:26 AM, katilac said:

Those questions cover a lot of territory, but I'll give them a go (as a non-expert in ASD, mind): 

How do you know it's important? Because other people tell you so. Parents and teachers spend a good bit of time urging children to consider things from another person's point of view - including NT children. I've had kids on the spectrum in my life on both a work and personal basis, and I can't say that any of them have been unaware that they should consider others' points of view. Resistant to the concept, yes, struggling with it, yes, but not unaware of it. Of course I'm not saying that's true for every kid with ASD. 

How do you develop the ability to do it? There are a lot of resources today that weren't available when we were growing up. People with ASD are likely to need explicit and repeated instruction, using what is generally called social thinking strategies and materials. And, if you would read this engraving on the job and immediately want to ask the customer about it, you do have the ability. It might be somewhat selectively applied, but you would clearly be thinking about the point of view of the recipient. 

You are correct that there can be many possibilities as to another person's point of view. That's why the most important thing is not to suss it out precisely, but to simply acknowledge that it exists and that people can make different decisions without one of them being wrong.  

"how are you supposed to work out that you are not supposed to do X,y and z so as not to offend NT people" <<<< This doesn't really give me enough info to answer bc x, y, and z could be anything, and the trigger could be anything. The most basic answer is that you are meant to mind your own business. Does that mean there is never a circumstance in which you should speak up? No, of course not, but generally you should stay in your own lane. If, as you say, you are constantly offended by others' words and actions, then I'd say you are generally overreaching and overthinking. 

To get back to the original post and why I say it's not the trophy shop's job to police these things: it's easy to think that this award would stand out, but I seriously doubt it did. People have weird things engraved all the time, many of them based on inside jokes and such. We have context, they did not, it was just another order that they engraving (not reading for content). If they did read for content, they would constantly be asking customers for clarification (bc varying senses of humor, inside jokes, etc). 

"This trophy says Most Annoying Male, and I notice it's an elementary school. Do you think that's appropriate?"

"It's for a teacher, it's an inside joke thank-you-very-much." 

"These trophies say Jerk and B*tch. Do you think that's appropriate?" 

"It's a Supernatural fan club, you idjit." 

My imagination fails me, but, 9 times out of 10, it would not be a case of someone being cruel to a child. It's not their job to police and I myself would probably be rather annoyed if they questioned me about my order. If someone doesn't want to ever engrave anything they personally consider inappropriate or rude, then they are in the wrong line of business. People have wildly varying ideas of inappropriate (particularly within their own circles). 

 

I see what you mean about the engraving.  Nobody I knows get stuff engraved so I hadn't thought of those aspects.

Where I am there are no real resources for ASD unless you are at the extreme end of the spectrum (non verbal, developmentally delayed and/or low IQ) in which case you may get a teacher's aide.

Most teachers don't have time to teach much as they have 30 plus kids in the class who they have to teach all subjects both academic and non academic usually without any help.

Many kids with ASD have a parent with ASD which further skews their idea of normal. 

Of course no one is constantly offended but my son simply cannot handle being teased.  He sees it as an unkind attack.  And he is right a lot of teasing is extremely unkind words and actions disguised behind a smile.

 

The one person completely lacking in empathy in this story is the teacher.

Edited June 27, 2019 by kiwik

[katilac]

7 hours ago, kiwik said:

 The one person completely lacking in empathy in this story is the teacher.

Agreed!