Tools for Young Adult with Severe ADD

[Mom0012]

I have a young adult that I am working with who has severe ADD.  She is on medication, when she remembers to take it.  She is bright, likeable and an out-of-the-box thinker, but she’s headed for flunking out of cc and possibly losing a great opportunity that she’s excelling in because she is not able to consistently get there on time. She could do very well in her classes if only she would do the work. 

My normal thought for someone making these mistakes is that they will have to suffer the consequences of their actions and, hopefully, learn from them.    In this case, because of the ADD, I wonder if there are additional tools out there that might help her.  She’s working full time, heavily involved in a college activity related to her work that she is absolutely passionate about and going to college part-time.  So, definitely not lazy, but she has very poor executive function skills.

I’d be grateful for any resources or suggestions that might help me help her.

[klmama]

Has she spoken with the disabilities office at the CC?  They may have some suggestions for her.  Some CCs have special tutors or services for students with ADD. 

If there is a supplemental instructor (SI) for her course that holds study sessions, she should go.  If she can get into any study group for each course, she should do that.  If she's in doubt about who to ask, the students sitting toward the front of the room are generally more likely to care/be successful/study regularly.

Is she willing to use the tools on her phone? 

ALARMS:  She could set daily alarms - for getting up (set 2), for taking meds, for leaving on time for class (1 for 15 minutes before leaving as a warning, 1 for "walk out the door now" but still early enough to allow for traffic problems), 1 for each planned study time, etc.  She can set dated alarms for anything special.

CHECK LISTS:  She could pin a to-do check list (on a memo app) to her home screen on her phone.  If she doesn't like check lists or if setting it up takes too long, just a plain memo can work, too. 

[MerryAtHope]

How often are you willing and able to meet with her? Their are coaches that actually help students with this, but of course that's expensive. She needs someone to help her see her days realistically and to help her keep on track while she develops the tools she needs to be self-led in this area. Alarms and text alerts are helpful things, but if she just turns it off or doesn't do the task when the app says to do it--it will be out of sight, out of mind for her. She may need help at first learning just to respond to whatever the alarm or alert tells her to do.

Has anyone sat down with her and had her map out her daily schedule by time on a one-week calendar? What I mean is--create a Monday-Sunday document. Have her put in all the hours she works. Then have her put on the time she needs to go to class, and the time she goes to or works on her interest area. Then tell her that for every 1 credit of class, she needs 2-3 hours of study time. That means a 3-credit course needs 6-9 hours of study outside of class time. Have her map out at least 2 hours per credit on her calendar--she needs to see when she's going to do that studying.

Then have her map out when she needs to eat and any travel time needed (ie, if she works until 3 on Monday, she can't start studying at 3--she has to get home and get materials out, she may need to eat--so she needs help to think through where her time is going.) Then anything else that she needs or wants on there. 

She needs to see in a concrete-written form how much of her time is actually accounted for already, and how little wiggle-room time she has. People with ADHD tend to think there's always time for something else--time expands (there's a never-ending abundant supply in their minds) and unexpectedly disappears (5 minutes becomes 30 without them really noticing the passing of time.) 

She may need help honestly assessing whether she can switch mental gears to keep up with this (at least 60 hour and potentially 80 hour or more per week schedule), and if she can thrive without much down time, time for friends and socializing outside of said class/work/activities, without time to "sit and think" and so on. 

If she tends to play on her phone a lot, she may need help assessing just how much time she gives to that, to help her see that technology is robbing her of the time she needs for her other pursuits.

So--to help her turn things around, she will probably need some weekly meetings for awhile to help her learn how to use some kind of planner--to learn how to review what she needs to do daily, to evaluate how each week goes and how to change things for the next week, and so on. 

 

 

[Mom0012]

3 hours ago, klmama said:

Has she spoken with the disabilities office at the CC?  They may have some suggestions for her.  Some CCs have special tutors or services for students with ADD. 

No, but I can go over to the office with her if she agrees.  She is eligible for an IEP with extended time to turn things in.  Her mom has not been able to get her to make the time to go over to the school and get this set up.  I’m not sure this particular accommodations would actually help her, though, because it doesn’t take her too long to actually do things once she starts doing them.  It is getting her to make the time to start them. But, as you said, maybe they will have other suggestions or resources for her that might be helpful.  I will try to pin her down and see if she will make an appointment and go in with me.

If there is a supplemental instructor (SI) for her course that holds study sessions, she should go.  If she can get into any study group for each course, she should do that.  If she's in doubt about who to ask, the students sitting toward the front of the room are generally more likely to care/be successful/study regularly.

Interestingly, one of these classes is something she should have completely aced and one of the things I was hoping would motivate her was that she wanted to help another student who was really struggling with the material.  That does not seem to have panned out, though.  But, getting her to seek out a study group is a good idea and one I will mention to her.

Is she willing to use the tools on her phone? 

Um, I would think so, lol.  She spends a lot of time on the phone.

ALARMS:  She could set daily alarms - for getting up (set 2), for taking meds, for leaving on time for class (1 for 15 minutes before leaving as a warning, 1 for "walk out the door now" but still early enough to allow for traffic problems), 1 for each planned study time, etc.  She can set dated alarms for anything special.

Her mom is waking her up in the mornings. Since her last warning at work, she has been getting up and going as long as her mother is there to wake her up.  If mom is not there, she will not wake up.  Part of this is, again, due to her poor use of her time.  She stays up very late on the computer and then has a lot of difficulty getting up in the morning.  

CHECK LISTS:  She could pin a to-do check list (on a memo app) to her home screen on her phone.  If she doesn't like check lists or if setting it up takes too long, just a plain memo can work, too.

Again, I will suggest this to her. As I am going through your very worthwhile suggestions, I am thinking — very sadly — that I doubt I can actually get her to do any of this.

 

[...................]

Our cc offered my dd several accommodations specifically for ADHD, among them a digital recorder.  She's not allowed to record with her phone but may use the one that they provide.  They also offered use of a scribe and a special pen where you write, and then push a button and the pen starts recording when you need a break from writing and would rather listen. 

We have also implemented what we've found in the book Finally Focused and it makes a HUGE and I mean HUGE difference.  Another HUGE difference for my dd is sleep.  When she gets her 11 hours she's good to go.  10 will see her a little more distracted.  8 or less and forget it.  To that end, the young lady should consider any and all things that she can to get proper sleep.  Sound / Noise generator, no caffeine after noon, take tryptophan before bed every day, limit sugar intake (that's in the book anyway), stay off phones and ipads at least one hour before bed and exercise daily.  I realized none of this is necessarily "teaching EF skills" but unless she fixes the nutritional and sleep deficits and problems, she won't make any headway anyway with teaching EF skills.

Also, taking less classes each semester, if possible could be helpful.  

It's been a bit of an uphill climb getting my dd to use her planner now that all her classes are outsourced, but the headway we did make, was helpful.  She likes to have a CHECKLIST  on her wall for each day for her homework, like check English emails and Check Google CLassroom for English, Do ASL, and things like that.

The only things she puts in her actual planner are special projects, reports, unusual due dates, and things happening from her iphone calendar.  Having a planner helps a lot but it was really quite the battle to keep her using it once her schoolwork was being assigned mostly via email/blackboard/canvas/google classroom.  

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Calming Tea

[Mom0012]

2 hours ago, MerryAtHope said:

How often are you willing and able to meet with her? Their are coaches that actually help students with this, but of course that's expensive. She needs someone to help her see her days realistically and to help her keep on track while she develops the tools she needs to be self-led in this area. Alarms and text alerts are helpful things, but if she just turns it off or doesn't do the task when the app says to do it--it will be out of sight, out of mind for her. She may need help at first learning just to respond to whatever the alarm or alert tells her to do.

A coach is a great idea and something she could easily afford right now.  I don’t know if I can find someone like this near her, but, if I can, I’d be willing to arrange the first session and then let her decide whether she wanted the help or not.  I would be able to meet with her on a weekly basis, but I am not sure I am the best person to do this for a number of reasons. I will have to think about it.

Has anyone sat down with her and had her map out her daily schedule by time on a one-week calendar? What I mean is--create a Monday-Sunday document. Have her put in all the hours she works. Then have her put on the time she needs to go to class, and the time she goes to or works on her interest area. Then tell her that for every 1 credit of class, she needs 2-3 hours of study time. That means a 3-credit course needs 6-9 hours of study outside of class time. Have her map out at least 2 hours per credit on her calendar--she needs to see when she's going to do that studying.

I have talked with her many times about how college is different than high school and how she needs to put in 3 hours of study time for every hour of class time (though even if she put in 1 hour, that would probably do it), but it is not sinking in.  I have not tried the calendar, though, and I will attempt that.  Maybe having a visual of where her time is going will be a reality check.

Then have her map out when she needs to eat and any travel time needed (ie, if she works until 3 on Monday, she can't start studying at 3--she has to get home and get materials out, she may need to eat--so she needs help to think through where her time is going.) Then anything else that she needs or wants on there. 

She needs to see in a concrete-written form how much of her time is actually accounted for already, and how little wiggle-room time she has. People with ADHD tend to think there's always time for something else--time expands (there's a never-ending abundant supply in their minds) and unexpectedly disappears (5 minutes becomes 30 without them really noticing the passing of time.) 

This is her to a “T”. Plus, she really gets sucked into little projects (that are unnecessary!) and loses sight of what she is supposed to be doing.  I tried to review algebra with her a couple of years ago and she wanted to take notes. “Great!” I thought.  She got so sucked into making the notebook, she spent 3 hours going through the first topic.  I explained that it was great that she wanted to make a notebook of concepts, but that we would never get through the material in the time we had if she continued, but I could not pull her out of the notebook.

She may need help honestly assessing whether she can switch mental gears to keep up with this (at least 60 hour and potentially 80 hour or more per week schedule), and if she can thrive without much down time, time for friends and socializing outside of said class/work/activities, without time to "sit and think" and so on.

It really doesn’t seem as though she can.  I would like to encourage her to put school on hold for a year or two, but the frustrating thing is that I do not know if she needs to earn a degree for the job she is apprenticing for.  She says not, but I’m not really confident that is true.

If she tends to play on her phone a lot, she may need help assessing just how much time she gives to that, to help her see that technology is robbing her of the time she needs for her other pursuits.

Yes.

So--to help her turn things around, she will probably need some weekly meetings for awhile to help her learn how to use some kind of planner--to learn how to review what she needs to do daily, to evaluate how each week goes and how to change things for the next week, and so on. 

I think I’m going to see if I can find a coach for her.  Honestly, I would like to work with her, but my relationship is such that I can’t really be tough with her and have it be effective.  Thank you!

 

 

[Mom0012]

3 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Our cc offered my dd several accommodations specifically for ADHD, among them a digital recorder.  She's not allowed to record with her phone but may use the one that they provide.  They also offered use of a scribe and a special pen where you write, and then push a button and the pen starts recording when you need a break from writing and would rather listen. 

We have also implemented what we've found in the book Finally Focused and it makes a HUGE and I mean HUGE difference.  Another HUGE difference for my dd is sleep.  When she gets her 11 hours she's good to go.  10 will see her a little more distracted.  8 or less and forget it.  To that end, the young lady should consider any and all things that she can to get proper sleep.  Sound / Noise generator, no caffeine after noon, take tryptophan before bed every day, limit sugar intake (that's in the book anyway), stay off phones and ipads at least one hour before bed and exercise daily.  I realized none of this is necessarily "teaching EF skills" but unless she fixes the nutritional and sleep deficits and problems, she won't make any headway anyway with teaching EF skills.

Also, taking less classes each semester, if possible could be helpful.  

 

A lot of these comments are making me think my original thoughts on this are correct — she’ll have to suffer the consequences before she makes a commitment to change.  I do think she is going to fail her classes this semester.  Perhaps that will be the wakeup call she needs.  I don’t think that recordings will help.  She can easily do the work, but just never makes time for it.  I will look at the Finally Focused book. And I’m going to see if there is a coach that specializes in working with ADD college students and time management.  Maybe after she fails the classes, she will be more open to wanting help.

She is taking two classes this semester.  She took 4 last semester and dropped one after I persistently asked her to for a month (it was a math class she was failing badly because she wasn’t doing any of the work).  I wanted her to just take one this semester, but she always thinks she can do it.  Honestly, I don’t think she has the maturity to be successful in school right now and I’d really like to see her wait a year or two if it doesn’t negatively impact her job because my hope is that with a bit more maturity, she’ll be able to do it. She is very bright and could easily do it if she just made the time, so I hate to see her load her transcript up with Fs in case she decides it is important to her in the future.

[...................]

Have you looked at her grades on her online portal?  A lot of smart kids can put very little work in, and still pass. If she's smart enough to have looked at the grading criteria she may have realized she can pass by only taking exams and not doing homework, or something like that.  

Are you sure she's really headed toward failure?

But, yes. I would give her the number of a life coach, help her make an appointment with the disabilities office and make sure she knows where the tutoring center is, and also talk to her about sleep and nutrition...it'll definitely be up to her and make take a few F's to realize she has to change something.

How did she do in regular high school?

[Mom0012]

12 minutes ago, Calming Tea said:

Have you looked at her grades on her online portal?  A lot of smart kids can put very little work in, and still pass. If she's smart enough to have looked at the grading criteria she may have realized she can pass by only taking exams and not doing homework, or something like that.  

Are you sure she's really headed toward failure?

But, yes. I would give her the number of a life coach, help her make an appointment with the disabilities office and make sure she knows where the tutoring center is, and also talk to her about sleep and nutrition...it'll definitely be up to her and make take a few F's to realize she has to change something.

How did she do in regular high school?

Her mother has looked at her online portal grades. She knows this. They aren’t being posted for one of her classes, but she has a 52% in the class that should be a piece of cake for her.  And it’s because she has tons of zeros.

In high school, she always excelled in the regular classes.  So much so, that they kept bumping her up to the pre-AP classes.  Then she would fail the pre-AP classes.  I believe that is because the regular classes do not have much, if any, homework.  The pre-AP classes require assignments to be done outside of the classroom and then turned in.  For example, she got a D in pre-AP algebra I, but then an A or a B in regular algebra 2.

I have contacted someone about coaching through CHADD and will set something up for her, if possible.  That is honestly the only thing I think *might* help get her on track.  I will also check on resources at the cc.

[...................]

Interesting. So she is bright and when she shows up, she pays attention and does the work, but doesn't do homework and doesn't plan ahead.  She is not prepared for college at all. 😞 I love that you are going to hook her up with a coach! 

 

[MerryAtHope]

On 4/22/2019 at 3:24 PM, Mom0012 said:

I have talked with her many times about how college is different than high school and how she needs to put in 3 hours of study time for every hour of class time (though even if she put in 1 hour, that would probably do it), but it is not sinking in.  I have not tried the calendar, though, and I will attempt that.  Maybe having a visual of where her time is going will be a reality check.

 

Yes, the physical calendar made a big difference--and I actually made up TWO calendars. 

Since she uses her phone a lot, the strategy that helped to make a breakthrough here was to have my student mark, without showing it to me so hopefully they would be honest with themselves!, how much time daily they thought they spent on the phone and/or watching videos, social media, whatever. I used the first calendar for this, after they had marked everything but study time (work, classes, extras etc...)

THEN I handed a second schedule over with all of the "must do's" marked out but not the study time--and then I had them mark out, from what time to what time, all of the study hours until they had a minimum of 2 hours per credit hour--and letting them know that papers, special projects, studying for tests etc... were going to require extra time most likely. 

Kids who never really had to study to do well in high school really do have to go through a maturing process to understand just how different college is--it's like your friend's difference between the regular and Pre-AP courses. But going through this kind of physically mapping everything out process started to help the message to sink in.

In your friend's case, I would probably also ask a question like, "how much sleep do you think you need each night to be able to feel rested and function well?" and have her add that on to her schedule--when she would need to go to bed in order to be able to wake up in the morning. That one is probably going to be the hardest habit to break though. It's so hard for people with ADHD to shut down at night--the mind is just waking up then! But seeing some things on paper and what life should really look like if she wants to go to college may help. She may just need another year or two though, before she can have the maturity and drive to be successful there. 

[Mom0012]

2 hours ago, MerryAtHope said:

 

Yes, the physical calendar made a big difference--and I actually made up TWO calendars. 

Since she uses her phone a lot, the strategy that helped to make a breakthrough here was to have my student mark, without showing it to me so hopefully they would be honest with themselves!, how much time daily they thought they spent on the phone and/or watching videos, social media, whatever. I used the first calendar for this, after they had marked everything but study time (work, classes, extras etc...)

THEN I handed a second schedule over with all of the "must do's" marked out but not the study time--and then I had them mark out, from what time to what time, all of the study hours until they had a minimum of 2 hours per credit hour--and letting them know that papers, special projects, studying for tests etc... were going to require extra time most likely. 

Kids who never really had to study to do well in high school really do have to go through a maturing process to understand just how different college is--it's like your friend's difference between the regular and Pre-AP courses. But going through this kind of physically mapping everything out process started to help the message to sink in.

In your friend's case, I would probably also ask a question like, "how much sleep do you think you need each night to be able to feel rested and function well?" and have her add that on to her schedule--when she would need to go to bed in order to be able to wake up in the morning. That one is probably going to be the hardest habit to break though. It's so hard for people with ADHD to shut down at night--the mind is just waking up then! But seeing some things on paper and what life should really look like if she wants to go to college may help. She may just need another year or two though, before she can have the maturity and drive to be successful there. 

I am definitely going to head over there with a weekly calendar printout and have her go through it with me. If nothing else, it might make her realize she simply is not going to make the time to do the work for her classes right now.  My hope would be that if she puts college off for a couple of years, she will be more ready for it.  I’d love it for her if she could manage a class each semester, but that may not be realistic right now.  Thanks for your help!

[Mom0012]

3 hours ago, Calming Tea said:

Interesting. So she is bright and when she shows up, she pays attention and does the work, but doesn't do homework and doesn't plan ahead.  She is not prepared for college at all. 😞 I love that you are going to hook her up with a coach! 

 

The funny thing is, I think she is still going to her classes.  In my mind, I would not bother attending the classes if I wasn’t turning in the work.  For one, I would be embarrassed about that and for two, why go to class every week if you aren’t doing any of the work? In her mind, she is going to do the work — later.  We’ll see.  I hope very much that she surprises me.  I haven’t heard back from anyone at CHADD yet about a counselor, but I will try again or somewhere else soon if they don’t get back to me.

[Bootsie]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:19 AM, Mom0012 said:

I have a young adult that I am working with who has severe ADD.  She is on medication, when she remembers to take it.  She is bright, likeable and an out-of-the-box thinker, but she’s headed for flunking out of cc and possibly losing a great opportunity that she’s excelling in because she is not able to consistently get there on time. She could do very well in her classes if only she would do the work. 

My normal thought for someone making these mistakes is that they will have to suffer the consequences of their actions and, hopefully, learn from them.    In this case, because of the ADD, I wonder if there are additional tools out there that might help her.  She’s working full time, heavily involved in a college activity related to her work that she is absolutely passionate about and going to college part-time.  So, definitely not lazy, but she has very poor executive function skills.

I’d be grateful for any resources or suggestions that might help me help her.

Is the main problem that she is going to class but not turning in work, not studying, or not paying attention while she is there?  Or is the main problem that she is missing class, either from being late or not attending? I find many students underestimate how much class they are missing and how significant those absences/tardies are.  If you have an hour long class and you are 10 minutes tardy, you have missed 15% of the day's material--that's equivalent to one and a half letter grades on an exam.  

I would suggest sitting down with a weekly calendar that lists the hours in the day vertically.  Mark out the times that she has work and is participating in her outside activities.  Mark when class meets and specific times that she will set aside to do work associated with the class.  This will highlight whether this is a time management issue or if she is trying to do too much and there really isn't time in a day to do it.  

[elegantlion]

Perhaps a working folder for each class might help. In that folder, I would keep a copy of each syllabus with due dates highlighted. It's easy to lose track of what is due when if you have to look it up every time. My ex was ADHD and maxed out the features on his phone to keep him on time and up to date with a schedule. He had a notes app, alarms set, calendar. He needed it in digital form, but others may work better on paper. 

Another thing I would keep is separate notebooks for each class, don't try to keep in all in one binder. 

Even non-ADHD students struggle with organization and time management. As a TA, I see students who show up and consistently don't turn in work even when they get numerous reminders as a class and individually if it's an issue. 

[Arcadia]

23 hours ago, Mom0012 said:

The funny thing is, I think she is still going to her classes.  In my mind, I would not bother attending the classes if I wasn’t turning in the work.  For one, I would be embarrassed about that and for two, why go to class every week if you aren’t doing any of the work? 

 

Some of my college classes had compulsory attendance (either get kick out of course or get zero for the class attendance portion which pulls down the final grade). Even when the lecturer is lousy, we just went and slept or revise quietly behind the last row, class participation wasn’t required but we needed to stand up when the lecturer does spot check on attendance.

[Mom0012]

16 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Is the main problem that she is going to class but not turning in work, not studying, or not paying attention while she is there?  Or is the main problem that she is missing class, either from being late or not attending? I find many students underestimate how much class they are missing and how significant those absences/tardies are.  If you have an hour long class and you are 10 minutes tardy, you have missed 15% of the day's material--that's equivalent to one and a half letter grades on an exam.  

I would suggest sitting down with a weekly calendar that lists the hours in the day vertically.  Mark out the times that she has work and is participating in her outside activities.  Mark when class meets and specific times that she will set aside to do work associated with the class.  This will highlight whether this is a time management issue or if she is trying to do too much and there really isn't time in a day to do it.  

I *think* the main problem is not turning in work.  I know last semester she had trouble getting to one of her classes on time and often missed it, but it was a 6:30 am class.  Now she’s having trouble getting to work on time.

While it would not surprise me if she is sometimes still late to class, I think the real issue is just not making time for the work.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Mom0012

[Bootsie]

IME, the problematic issue needs to be clearly defined before considering tools to help.   For example, if the problem is that she forgets she has homework a helpful tool will look much different than if she she starts the work and struggles to complete it because she doesn't understand the material or she does the work but doesn't turn it in. If the issue is that she is working full time, involved in other activities, and has little time to work on class work, but enough if she chose to spend her time that way, some solutions like joining a study group may simply be another distraction and a time drain.  

[...................]

17 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 

Some of my college classes had compulsory attendance (either get kick out of course or get zero for the class attendance portion which pulls down the final grade). Even when the lecturer is lousy, we just went and slept or revise quietly behind the last row, class participation wasn’t required but we needed to stand up when the lecturer does spot check on attendance.

 

True, my ds has had two classes where attendance is part of the grade, and it is regularly checked.  I think it's because there is a long waiting list for those classes, and they want the people who got a spot to actually be there. 🙂 

[Mom0012]

1 hour ago, Bootsie said:

IME, the problematic issue needs to be clearly defined before considering tools to help.   For example, if the problem is that she forgets she has homework a helpful tool will look much different than if she she starts the work and struggles to complete it because she doesn't understand the material or she does the work but doesn't turn it in. If the issue is that she is working full time, involved in other activities, and has little time to work on class work, but enough if she chose to spend her time that way, some solutions like joining a study group may simply be another distraction and a time drain.  

Yes, she is working full time and heavily involved in another activity in addition to her classes.  She absolutely does not need to put the amount of time into this other activity that she does, but she always has, even in high school.  Even with all this, she was able to pull off an A, a B and a C (total of 7 credits) last semester because her teachers still gave her full credit even when she turned things in very late and because her mother begged her every night to do the work and basically kept on top of what was due.  Her mom can’t keep doing that and she has a tendency to tune her mom out anyway, so she pulled back this semester and hence the 52% in the class that should be easy for her.  Her mom has still reminded her of a few big deadlines and has seen her in a panic trying to suddenly get six assignments done that were assigned months ago and are all due on that night.  So, it’s not that she completely doesn’t care. It seems that she has very poor time management skills and underestimates the amount of time it will take to do things or the amount of time she will have.  Probably because she doesn’t plan at all.  

That’s why I like the idea of a coach. If she respects the person and is paying for the service, she might actually listen to them and stay on top of things. However, it would not surprise me if she needs a year or two before she is ready to follow through. I do realize that lots of kids struggle with this.  I did myself when I was that age and I don’t have add, but I think the add makes it much worse and more out of her control.