Help! Great Books Study for a Sonlight kid???

[ByGrace3]

I am at a point of impasse in high school planning. The point where I evaluate my plans and how they match up with the kid in front of me. I have always planned to do a Great books study. We have been on and off with the classical cycle, more on that off I think over the years.  A lot of Veritas Press, Biblioplan, with a few years of US History and this year World Geography. My dd is happiest with books "about families."  She never really liked VP . . . She loves logic (Art of Argument) and loves online classes. She is capable. Is a strong reader.  I showed her samples of Wes Calihan and Omnibus self paced. She chose Omnibus and seems genuine in liking it. But I am hesitant. Omnibus primary and secondary is A LOT. I so wish we could afford GC at WHA but at about $1100 for one class . . . that is out of the question. I want the "flavor" of theology offered by VP/WHA -- so just doing GB in a secular class is not appealing to me. She continually rises to the occasion when she wants to, so It's not that I think she can't do it, but I don't want her to burn out and hate it either. 

I love the idea of the independence of Omnibus, but if we do primary and secondary that is 2 hours a day of class, and then I have read it can be around 2 hours of reading for class. That seems like a lot. I don't want her to burn out...especially since some of the reading is incredibly difficult. I love the WHA GC course that shortens it and doesn't do all of the works. 

And then there is the part of me that knows she would be probably thrilled to sit with Sonlight books and just read, which I won't do, so then my back up is to go back to Biblioplan with offers a balance of history/Great Books/and historical fiction.  But this is not....independent. 

I am all over the place . . .  any help???

[G5052]

Mine did Sonlight through 6th grade, then Classical Conversations, and then Omnibus. My older one did the online classes and the younger did them locally with one of the Veritas teachers. They did Omnibus 1-4 for high school. My older one took the CLEP Western Civ exams and got out of two semesters of history.

They loved it and still talk about certain books they read. My older one is a senior accounting major, and my younger one is a sophomore English major. They were well-prepared for college. 

[ByGrace3]

2 hours ago, G5052 said:

Mine did Sonlight through 6th grade, then Classical Conversations, and then Omnibus. My older one did the online classes and the younger did them locally with one of the Veritas teachers. They did Omnibus 1-4 for high school. My older one took the CLEP Western Civ exams and got out of two semesters of history.

They loved it and still talk about certain books they read. My older one is a senior accounting major, and my younger one is a sophomore English major. They were well-prepared for college. 

 

I think dd would enjoy a live class . . .i'm just concerned the self paced with be a lot of watching/reading, no interaction and she will get bored. Why am I so annoyed that the GC classes are so expensive and don't meet anymore than the other classess . . . lol 

[MamaSprout]

I don't know, but if you find a secular homeschool friendly GB resources let me know... they are not abundant.

Have you considered doing the Sonlight 500 spread out over 2 years? The first half is Lively Art of Writing, which is a very accessible writing text for early high school.

Edited March 5, 2019 by MamaSprout

[Lori D.]

That's tough. My initial reaction to your subject title would be to say "run with your student's passion and style of learning." So, do Sonlight with her through high school (or at least the History/Literature/Bible part of the SL cores) and have a blast! Or together, each year plan and do individualized History and Lit. studies; that can include a lot of classics and Great Books. It could even be chronological if desired. And then outsource the rest of her courses if you are not able to be more personally involved in her high school than that. Include an outsourced Logic course since it sounds like she's really loving that.

My second thought would be to get her into 1-2 in-person classroom courses for live interactions and discussions -- local co-op, or see if your public / charter / private high school will allow her to take 1 or 2 classes with them. Or, do you have a university model or hybrid school with decent high school offerings?

But if circumstances are such that you need totally independent or outsourced History and Literature, I would at least think through the following and then make curricula and/or outsourcing choices based on your answers to the following:

- What are DD's strengths, passions, interests?
- What are DD's goals for adult life (or thoughts about what she might want to do)?
- How does DD learn best? (solo vs. interactive? hands-on vs. reading & writing vs. lectures vs. other? living books vs. texts?)
- What are your goals for DD for the high school years -- life skills, character issues, emotional/spiritual development, academic goals, etc.?
- What is your educational philosophy and how does that fit with DD's needs and interests and learning style?
- Are there life circumstances that  (other children to teach, or with special needs? poor health? living abroad or rural? caring for extended family? etc...)
- Are there local high school options, and would DD thrive/wilt in that environment?

Without knowing more details, it sounds like you really need/prefer to outsource or have a self-grading/independent option, and you want Christian rather than secular. A few more options:
- Scolé Academy online classes = Ancient History + Ancient Literature
- Memoria Press online classes = Classical Studies I (ancient Hist. + Iliad & Odyssey) + Classical Studies II (ancient Hist. + Aeneid)
- Kolbe online classes = Ancient Greek Literature & English 9 + Ancient Greek Hist. or Western Civ I (1 year ancient to modern survey)

If you are willing to shift when/how you do classical studies, you might look at The Potter's School:
9th grade = American Hist. + Lit. + Comp. class (+ a book basket with SL100 books + good books for DD to enjoy solo)
10th grade = Ancient Hist. + Lit. + Comp. class (+ a book basket of ancient Hist. fiction + good books for DD to enjoy solo)
11th grade = Medieval Hist. + Lit. + Comp. class  (+ a book basket of medieval Hist. fiction + good books for DD to enjoy solo)
12th grade = Modern Hist. + Lit. + Comp. class  (+ a book basket of early mod.-modern Hist. fiction + good books for DD to enjoy solo)

Or, perhaps look at other Christian (but non-classical) online options:  Abeka Academy or Alpha-Omega Academy.
Or, is outsourcing several courses to your local homeschool co-op an option?
Or, in your area, do you have an affordable university-model school or private Christian high school for all-outsourced subjects?

Just brainstorming. BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Lori D.

[ByGrace3]

1 hour ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Also- I’ve looked at VP Omnibus. Honestly I don’t know how anyone reads all of those books in primary and secondary and comes out with anything more than a passing overview. That is a LOT- to me VP is breadth not depth so depends on what you as the parent want her to have. She’s in 8th grade, correct? Honestly you need to be guide here. She’s not going to know the honest difference at that age. Kids blow through books and think they’re getting it but they aren’t. 

 

This is my greatest concern. I am very much multum non multa in my pedagogy. I don't want to overwhelm her with so much reading that there is no depth at all. I have considered doing BP again and adding in some of the Great Courses . . .  One of my biggest cons of Wes Calihan/Roman Roads is that it is a whole year on Greeks and another on Romans. I really would like to cover all of Ancients this year. 

[Lori D.]

52 minutes ago, Æthelthryth the Texan said:

Throwing this out there- There is a podcast called The Classical Homeschool Podcast. On it is an episode with AngelinaStandford on Great Books- episode 16 per Apple. You might give it a listen if you have time. She talks about the difference between a lit centered GB approach vs a historical GB approach which is according to her the big difference between her and Wes.  Even if you aren’t interested in her classes it might help give you more to chew on since you know what you don’t want. And that’s good that you know that. To me it’s as important to know what you don’t as what you do. 

Yes, that's what I was trying to get at with the "ask yourself questions" part of my post. 😉

And much as I love the depth we got when History and Lit overlapped, I think it's a bit artificial and forced to do that *all* year for *every* year of school. And it means missing out on the very different kind of depth you get by passing over some really terrific books not in the Great Books canon + the fantastic discussions that come out of those books. It also means missing out on a lot of powerful short stories, meaningful plays, and beautiful poetry. And it absolutely means missing out on being able to have the profound experience of having a "book love" and getting to dig deeply into an author or genre out of that deep love. Clearly, I am biased towards being lit-centered when doing Great Books, and also not about letting chronological History drive our homeschool educational bus. 😉 

Edited March 6, 2019 by Lori D.

[ScoutTN]

Angelina Stanford rocks! Her classes are just Lit, no writing, no output except discussion.  If you are interested, be quick, since her classes fill fast! 

Have you looked at Wasko Lit?

[Aloha2U]

6 hours ago, ByGrace3 said:

 

This is my greatest concern. I am very much multum non multa in my pedagogy. I don't want to overwhelm her with so much reading that there is no depth at all. I have considered doing BP again and adding in some of the Great Courses . . .  One of my biggest cons of Wes Calihan/Roman Roads is that it is a whole year on Greeks and another on Romans. I really would like to cover all of Ancients this year. 

 

The Greeks and The Romans could be combined into one year using The Essentials Schedule for Old Western Culture.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Mom21

[SoCal_Bear]

I think you mentioned that you like Schole. Have you considered just the lit or the history for Ancients? I really liked the response I got from Adam Lockridge about the classes. It's a much more manageable workload than GC at WHA sounds like. It's at the top of my list when my son gets to that point.

Edited March 6, 2019 by calbear

[ByGrace3]

8 hours ago, Mom21 said:

 

The Greeks and The Romans could be combined into one year using The Essentials Schedule for Old Western Culture.

 

Thank you! I will look into this! So you buy both set of curriculum but only read a selection of the books. 

8 hours ago, calbear said:

I think you mentioned that you like Schole. Have you considered just the lit or the history for Ancients? I really liked the response I got from Adam Lockridge about the classes. It's a much more manageable workload than GC at WHA sounds like. It's at the top of my list when my son gets to that point.

 

I would have loved to do Schole, but all of Adam Lockridge classes are late afternoon and my kids do after school sports. 

[Lori D.]

Not that I get to vote, lol, but if I did, I'd vote for The Potter's School. I've known a number of local homeschoolers who have taken the English classes and the students really enjoy the classes. The integrated courses I linked above are each worth 2 credits (1 = History, 1 = English), and the English includes both your Lit. AND Writing -- completely outsourced/graded. Also, the amount of Lit. is much more realistic, and leaves a bit of wiggle room for pleasure reading SL book (or other good books of the student's interest).

And it gives you a Great Books style of Humanities, with a full chronological cycle of History in 3 years -- AND you get the American History credit that most colleges want from high school students for admission. Another bonus -- both sections of The Potter's School American Hist. + Lit. + Comp. are morning classes!

The only down-side I see is that it means shifting your plans for a cycle of chronological History back 1 year. (But you'd still be doing a Great Books study, just with American History & Literature.)

BEST of luck as you decide! Warmest regards, Lori.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Lori D.

[ByGrace3]

2 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Not that I get to vote, lol, but if I did, I'd vote for The Potter's School. I've known a number of local homeschoolers who have taken the English classes and the students really enjoy the classes. The integrated courses I linked above are each worth 2 credits (1 = History, 1 = English), and the English includes both your Lit. AND Writing -- completely outsourced/graded. Also, the amount of Lit. is much more realistic, and leaves a bit of wiggle room for pleasure reading SL book (or other good books of the student's interest). And it gives you a Great Books style of Humanities, and you get a full chronological cycle of History in 3 years -- AND you get the American History credit that most colleges want from high school students for admission.

The only down-side I see is that it means shifting your plans for a cycle of chronological History back 1 year. (But you'd still be doing a Great Books study, just with American History & Literature.)

BEST of luck as you decide! Warmest regards, Lori.

Thank you! Your advice is always helpful and welcomed! Unfortunately two problems here . . .1 TPS is almost $1,000 for the class. . . That is almost the same as WHA. And 2, I do want to capitalize on Ancients this year as we will be traveling to Greece and Rome this summer and it will be a high interest topic for my kids this year . . . 

[Lori D.]

Ahhh... The summer travel to Greece and Rome -- that does make sense to prioritize studying ancients next year. Hope you all have a fabulous time!

[ByGrace3]

21 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Ahhh... The summer travel to Greece and Rome -- that does make sense to prioritize studying ancients next year. Hope you all have a fabulous time!

 

Thanks! We are excited!

[ByGrace3]

I just really wish there was a way to use Omnibus self paced and skip a few books. 😥

[domestic_engineer]

1 hour ago, ByGrace3 said:

I just really wish there was a way to use Omnibus self paced and skip a few books. 😥

Can you audit the Self-Paced Course and thus allow you to skip a few books? I  know you can audit their elementary history SP courses so that you didn't have to pass the quizzes to move forward through the course.

[ByGrace3]

20 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

Can you audit the Self-Paced Course and thus allow you to skip a few books? I  know you can audit their elementary history SP courses so that you didn't have to pass the quizzes to move forward through the course.

I emailed to ask! Thanks!

[staceyobu]

Why the self paced course as opposed to just working through the text? I'm looking myself... we've also done a lot of Sonlight. DD looked at some samples of the Omnibus text and said she really liked it.

 

[ByGrace3]

9 hours ago, staceyobu said:

Why the self paced course as opposed to just working through the text? I'm looking myself... we've also done a lot of Sonlight. DD looked at some samples of the Omnibus text and said she really liked it.

 

 

I wish I had the time to do it justice, but with life circumstances and schooling 3 kids, I can't guarantee that I will have the time to put into it that it deserves. If I use the self paced to do the teaching, I can use my limited time to do discussion, which I find is the heart of our homeschooling. I am pretty sure I have decided to do Omnibus light, doing the self paced unlocked so I can pick and choose books and still leave some time for some other reading. 

[cintinative]

@ByGrace3, what did you end up deciding to do?

We were planning to do TPS, but the shortened version of the story is that I am not thrilled with the fact the American history class uses a middle school book as a spine, and I just heard that the ancients teacher is not returning (and they don't know if the class will be offered). Also they can't commit to the Medieval class being offered until registration opens in February. It just feels risky to pursue it--like we won't be sure from year to year if the class we need will be there.

I really like the look of OWC but I am wondering if anyone has done the essentials schedule for Greeks and Romans. My oldest already did GC1 and I don't know how to fit in US history if we do OWC as planned. I don't think he would do well with US history and OWC in one year.

I need to look for that podcast by Angelina Stanford mentioned up thread.