Spelling L blends

[Lecka]

I’m slowly working through AAS 1 with my younger son.  He is in Step 14, final blends.  He has been going through pretty smoothly, so I have been skipping tiles and having him write words from dictation, and just repeat words he misses the next day. 

Its not working with the words felt, melt, or help.  Except I think he has kind-of memorized the word help, he gets it sometimes.  

He leaves out the l.  

I am thinking of ideas.... looking in the mirror, showing him his tongue.  Doing a word scramble or tiles so he knows there is an l in the word.  

Those are my two ideas.  I have been practicing segmenting the words, saying the words slowly and stretching out the l..... I will keep going with that, but I don’t think it’s going to be enough.  

Any thoughts?

This son does better to stay on things until he is pretty confident, he doesn’t get bored or downcast, and feel like “why are we still doing this.”  That was my older son lol.  

But he’s doing really well with the other words, so I plan to keep going in the book.  He’s about half-way through the “extra words” list and I haven’t noticed any other ones.  

[PeterPan]

Try the L in more positions to see if the issue is the L or that it's two consonants together at the end. So is he getting past, hard, etc.? Getting the R would be interesting since L and R are similar in production.

[Lecka]

He is getting “past.”  He’s only on short vowels, “hard” is an r-controlled vowel and I’m not worrying about that yet ?

He has a harder time with -nt, but he can reread the word and self-correct (add the n).  

I tried a word scramble this morning and he liked that, it’s like setting out tiles to choose from, but I think it’s less distracting right now. 

The whole lesson is final consonant blends, and most of them he is doing easily.  Then a few he has a harder time with (sitting and segmenting the word as he writes each letter), and a few he skips a letter but can self-correct.  But with the “l”s he can’t self-correct.  But he did good with word scrambles so I can keep it there for now.  

[PeterPan]

Some of the blends are really close in production, like S and T for past, where both /s/ and /t/ are in the front of the mouth, similar positions. With something like help, you're going back (for the /l/) to front (/p/). So that's going to add to the complexity because it's just so much more he's having to slow down and feel and remember. I like the scrambled tiles. What you could do at some point is add in one distractor. So put in one tile that isn't necessary for the word. Also you can do some activities where you give him the first three tiles and he adds the 4th or build letters 1,2,4 and leave spot three blank. Or do deletions where you say if I built this word and took off the /p/ what would it be, etc. You could also do some listening games where you say words and ask him to identify if he hears /l/ in the word at all. Vary the position obviously. 

He may need continued exposure, and this is a foundational stage to be doing that. His difficulty with -nt would feed into the idea that he's having difficulty with identifying the sounds when they're in very different positions in the mouth. So that's something to spend time on, and it means working on one might get another. Like you might work on -nt and then -lt in the same session, trying to see if you can make minimal difference pairs that help him discriminate the /n/ and /l/ in those.

ant--alt

hint--hilt

punt--pilt (non-word)

Nonsense would be ok for this. Minimal difference pairs are a good strategy for improving discrimination. I really like the Attention Good Learners (DeGaetano), and it might be something he'd enjoy too. It's AMAZING for working on minimal differences and auditory discrimination. 

[domestic_engineer]

@PeterPan Could you elaborate on how Attention Good Learners works?    I was coming on the boards for this exact same issue except with the word "-nch" ending where DC wasn't catching the "n".

[ElizabethB]

Go back and forth between:

bell, belt, bell; Mel, melt, Mel; hell, help, hell, 

and see if that helps.  If the word without the ending letter is a nonsense word, I would still do it and go back and forth and see if it helps.

I'd do the building and saying back and forth with letter tiles or on a white board.

[Lecka]

Thanks for the ideas!!!!!

[Kanin]

I'd get some colored tiles and have him say each sound in the word while pulling a tile towards himself. He probably needs something tactile to realize there are two sounds in the blend. You can also practice the blends on flash cards, and he could pound his fist for each sound: show "lt," he pounds L-T while saying the sounds aloud.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Mainer

[Lecka]

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, domestic_engineer said:

@PeterPan Could you elaborate on how Attention Good Learners works?    I was coming on the boards for this exact same issue except with the word "-nch" ending where DC wasn't catching the "n".

You might be able to find samples by googling. Each page has a grid of pictures with minimal difference pairs as descriptions (a fox on a box, a nail on a pail, etc.), and the sheets are ordered to build. Because they're aimed at therapists (SLPs), they're flexible and can be used lots of ways, basically any way you think up. (articulation, rapid naming, working memory, etc. etc.) They were pretty brilliant for my ds and cheap in the scheme of things. I used instructions someone sent me privately, so we used each page lots of ways. You can photocopy the page and then cut apart the pictures. You can name sequences that they repeat and touch. On and on.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Mainer said:

I'd get some colored tiles and have him say each sound in the word while pulling a tile towards himself. He probably needs something tactile to realize there are two sounds in the blend. You can also practice the blends on flash cards, and he could pound his fist for each sound: show "lt," he pounds L-T while saying the sounds aloud.

See this is where AAS trims down OG, not including all the steps, and you're right they're good stuff! We actually did more than that, because we did that stage with the LIPS faces *and* blank tiles *and* letter magnets *and* printed tiles. It was definitely the super rocket science stage for ds. 

I've seen some strategies online where they'll use sound boxes and then put letter magnets into them, but it's the same idea of slowing down and thinking about how many sounds you hear, what the representation for each sound will be...

[Lecka]

AAS does have it, but he can do it with most of the words in the lesson.  

I think I do need to get out the tiles.  

[Kanin]

2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

See this is where AAS trims down OG, not including all the steps, and you're right they're good stuff! We actually did more than that, because we did that stage with the LIPS faces *and* blank tiles *and* letter magnets *and* printed tiles. It was definitely the super rocket science stage for ds. 

I've seen some strategies online where they'll use sound boxes and then put letter magnets into them, but it's the same idea of slowing down and thinking about how many sounds you hear, what the representation for each sound will be...

Yeah, that's awesome! I do something similar, and it's very effective. Love LiPS!

 

[MerryAtHope]

On 8/24/2018 at 2:35 PM, Lecka said:

AAS does have it, but he can do it with most of the words in the lesson.  

I think I do need to get out the tiles.  

I was just going to suggest getting out the tiles. That segmenting work with the tokens is really important too (pulling down a token for each sound before they even practice spelling the words). Some kids find that easy with 3-sound words and people just skip it--but if you have a student struggling with some blends, back up and try that segmenting exercise again. Have you tried the segmenting exercise on page 66? That's an alternative to doing it with the tokens but really helps the student think through each sound. I'd try segmenting with blends that are easier for him first, and then try the ones with l's that are harder.

Then try the tiles after you're sure he can segment the words properly--and then go back to trying to have him write them. AAS is really scaffolding all of the skills, and while sometimes you may be able to skip some of those intermediate steps, you really need to back up and do them all when a student struggles. 

Great idea for the letter-scramble exercise. You can use the tiles for that too. I would take letter tiles for a word like fast, and mix them up–so I might have atsf. Then I would tell my kids, “I want to make fast. What letter comes first?” They pulled down the F. Great! What is the next sound? and so on. Sometimes they might make the word incorrectly. So I might say, “Oh, I would read that ‘fats.’ That’s different from fast, isn’t it (emphasizing the ssss before the t). Do you know how to change this to make fasssst?”

Another way to work with the tiles: start with a word like met–if he can build it with tiles, great, let him do that. Then say, “Now I want to change met into melt. That one has another sound, doesn’t it? How can I make mellllt?” Then you could talk about met–“Met has 3 sounds, doesn’t it? Let’s count them (use the tokens). Good! Now if I change it to melt, how many sounds does that have? Let’s count them.” Try to have him say each sound. If he misses one, you could say, “let’s try again, listen closely,” and you then say the sounds while he pulls down a token for each sound. Then after you segment a word, say, “Ok, now you try it, you say the sounds in this word,” and see if he can say them all while jumping or pulling down tokens.

The change the tile exercises are really helpful for paying attention to all of the sounds in the blends: met-melt-belt-bet-set-sit-silt-tilt--and so on. I'd work on a change-the-tile type of exercise each day until blends start to become easier for him. Mix in the ones that he usually self-corrects and some easier ones too, so he gets really used to thinking about all the sounds in a word.

Hang in there, he'll get it!

[Lecka]

Thanks for the encouragement!

I have a kind-of “reading and spelling” time, and I let him have some choices, and it has ended up that he has been choosing to read aloud more, and that has been going well.  

So he’s been doing more like 10 words or 5 phrases from AAS.  

For whatever reason, the word list with initial blends is really short compared to the word list for final blends.  

He is doing better with initial blends.  I think he has covered them in school and just gone over them a lot.  

I am planning to just review the same words until it’s easy for him and not move on, because I’m not in a hurry, and it will make it stressful for him to do the dictation later when the final blends that are hard do come up.  At least for now.  And then have a little time for going over the blends with tiles.  

He was hung up on consonant blends for blending/learning to read, until fairly recently, until around January or so when he was easily reading blends.  We had done a lot of word chains with that.  

Its interesting because some words he can write very smoothly and easily, and then some words that he does get, he has to sit and think about every letter.  

He has a lot of loose ends from learning to read, that I want to do well with spelling.  I get tempted to move on, but it’s really not my purpose lol.  

But he isn’t minding when we do a shorter spelling and then a longer time doing reading practice, and I am happy to see him choosing more reading practice.  

I think the spelling is helping his reading, too.  I think with one thing another, he is better with initial blends in reading, and then final blends were passed over a little, so this is making reading easier for him.  Even though he can sound them out, he is benefiting from the practice with them.  

But we are not in a hurry, that’s what I keep telling myself.  I want him to have confidence too, and it was going extremely well for his confidence when he was going through the earlier steps and having an easy time.  There’s no reason to lose that.  

[wendyroo]

One thing I do to help with spelling blends is to scaffold by having them first spell the "word" without the blend.

So, for help, I would first have him spell "hep"; that should be fairly easy and straightforward.  (It also offers interesting vocabulary/science lessons when my kids ask what hep means and I tell them it is often used as shorthand for hepatitis which is a liver sickness. ?)  Once kiddo has successfully spelled "hep" then I guide him by saying, "Now I want you to spell a word that is similar, but not the same.  Listen for the difference.  Spell "help"."

Wendy

[Lecka]

He read out loud for 20 minutes this morning, because he liked what he was reading and didn’t want to do spelling.  That’s really good for him! So I gave him easier words today (maybe we’ll do some more later).  

Then he was happy he had an easier time with spelling.

He told me if he had a hard time with a word, he wants me to do a word scramble (write the letters) for him.

I didn’t get to tiles or go back to the certain final blends.  I might take a little break on them, but I know he needs more work on it.  Now that I’m aware of them I do think I see them being rougher in his reading, too.  

[MerryAtHope]

16 hours ago, Lecka said:

But we are not in a hurry, that’s what I keep telling myself.  I want him to have confidence too, and it was going extremely well for his confidence when he was going through the earlier steps and having an easy time.  There’s no reason to lose that.  

 

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

By the time it came to the edge of the Forest, the stream had grown up, so that it was almost a river, and, being grown-up, it did not run and jump and sparkle along as it used to do when it was younger, but moved more slowly.  For it knew now where it was going, and it said to itself, “There is no hurry.  We shall get there some day.”
 

—A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner

[ElizabethB]

How old is he?  I'm working on something that may help, but you need to be at least 7, most likely, I've only tried it out on a few students.

[Lecka]

He is 9, almost 10.  

I can see him making progress, he is having an easier time since Friday when I started this thread ?  

But for most words he is spending time to segment the word, for each letter he writes.   

[PeterPan]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

But for most words he is spending time to segment the word, for each letter he writes.   

That seems appropriate.

[Lecka]

He did spelling again this morning before I dropped him off at therapy....

For “help” he did good, he sounded the word out as he wrote each letter.  He did that for about half of the words.

Then he has words like “swam.”  First he says “swam” 3-4 times.  Then he says “sss sss sw sw swam.”  Then he writes the letter s.  Then he says swam 3-4 more times.  Then he says sss sss sw sw sw swam swam sw sw sw swam s w s w s w.”  Then he writes the letter w.  (Edit:  this is all very, very, very slow and drawn-out.)  

Then he can say swam once (or maybe twice) slowly and write “am” as he says it.  

So he is doing good, but it’s taking a lot of effort for about half of the words.  

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Lecka

[ElizabethB]

8 hours ago, Lecka said:

He is 9, almost 10.  

I can see him making progress, he is having an easier time since Friday when I started this thread ?  

But for most words he is spending time to segment the word, for each letter he writes.   

That is a good age for what I'm developing, and it addresses exactly the problem he's having. I can send you a PDF of the draft product if you like, anyone here has enough expertise to use it in draft form!

Just PM me an email to send it to if you want to try it.

 

[Lecka]

Thanks!

[PeterPan]

21 hours ago, Lecka said:

He did spelling again this morning before I dropped him off at therapy....

For “help” he did good, he sounded the word out as he wrote each letter.  He did that for about half of the words.

Then he has words like “swam.”  First he says “swam” 3-4 times.  Then he says “sss sss sw sw swam.”  Then he writes the letter s.  Then he says swam 3-4 more times.  Then he says sss sss sw sw sw swam swam sw sw sw swam s w s w s w.”  Then he writes the letter w.  (Edit:  this is all very, very, very slow and drawn-out.)  

Then he can say swam once (or maybe twice) slowly and write “am” as he says it.  

So he is doing good, but it’s taking a lot of effort for about half of the words.  

It sounds like he's been taught a word family approach somewhere. (That's that the Jan Richardson stuff uses etc.) So what you'd *like* is for him to say the word, tap/pound or pull down tiles to indicate how many sounds he hears, then hold that in his head and say each sound individually as he writes them. But he has autism and is by definition rigid, so maybe that isn't a fight you win. 

What you might do is back up and do a similar word with 3 letters that he would be inclined to do as word family and see if you can bust through that. If you get that pulling down, then go back to four. You'll probably get there, once he realizes what you want.

It also could be that hard with the working memory to hold all those thoughts in his head, it's never overkill to do more for working memory. It's protective and just makes tasks easier. It's something where you can throw in a 5 minute reward game each session but know you're doing it to build that working memory. It can be kinesthetic, visual, anything, just shake it up.

[Lecka]

He hasn’t been taught a word family approach, but he does know -am.  He has kind-of been doing CVC words for a long time, and then he is newer to being able to do blends.  He had spelling lists for CVC words and could segment and spell CVC words.... 2 1/2 years ago.  

He definitely was taught to blend consonant blends with left-to-right blending, phonics instruction.  Now on to segmenting, lol.