Algebra--need advice/long

[sbgrace]

One of my rising 9th graders is slogging through Algebra. I think this is mostly because he has very little attention span for math (ADHD, autism--both hit his executive skills and Algebra takes a lot of detail/extended focus). Once he finishes 6-12 problems, depending on the day and complexity of problems, he is just mentally checked out. I've tried two sections of math each day, but it seems math really needs to be a first of the day, well rested, ADHD medicated option. He can easily miss every single problem on a page with Algebra he truly understands if he's not attending well. 

He did 1/2 of CLE Algebra I. Retention seemed good. The volume of problems he had to complete every day was just not working at all. He started missing 2/3 of the problems in every lesson. I tried to cut lessons into multiple days, but the way CLE spirals meant retention suffered with that method. 

We started Lial's Algebra in December. He had mastered about 1/2 of the Lial's content with CLE Algebra, but the sequence is different enough that we had to pick out small portions of early Lial's chapters before we started with all new material in section 6 (of 9 sections). He's toward the end of section 7--working on Algebra to tolerance each day. 

Lial's is working well in that we can easily do the number of problems that he can tolerate each day, and move on when he's ready.

But Lial's is a huge book. At 6 or so problems a day....he's progressing very slowly. 

I'm concerned he's going to forget things he learned previously at this pace.

My plan was to just keep crawling through Lial's, then run him through another Algebra program, hopefully quicker, when he's done with Lial's. 

Do I do this--finish Lial's first (it may well take us 1/2 his 9th grade year at the current pace), then do another Algebra? If so, what? 

Alternatively, is there an Algebra that might work better than Lial's? With both programs, the large volume of problems seems to be the main issue. It's important to me that he masters Algebra, and he can--conceptual understanding and retention isn't his issue--it's mental fatigue and ability to attend to details (He often makes silly mistakes in more complicated problems). 

[Mom22ns]

If you are going to use Lial's for Algebra 2, I wouldn't do another algebra when he is finished. Lial's Intermediate Algebra teaches each concept from beginning to end, so it reviews the Algebra 1 level of the concept, then builds on it for Algebra 2 - in each chapter. It makes a great review without having to do another program.

[Jann in TX]

My first experience with Lial Introductory Algebra was with my oldest dd (her 9th grade year).  She is my aspie and had definite attention issues-- she could manage 4-10 problems per day (maybe).  It took 2 years to complete (doing some occasionally in the summer).  We skipped Geometry and worked on Lial's Intermediate Algebra for another 2 years.  Slow, but she was making progress.  The next year she took a math class (combination of college algebra and statistics) at the CC and aced it. 

Lial doesn't have any more problems than other programs-- 20-30 per day.  The difference is the Lial text was designed for block schedules so each lesson is 2 days of 'normal' work-- and the lessons are fluid (build on each other) so working only a few each day was enough to keep dd progressing.

[BlsdMama]

Jann is definitely the expert on this.


I will add a few layers to it and risk getting raked over the coals.

Is it a STEM kid?  Is he headed to a four year institution and majoring in a STEM field?  Or is Algebra I and II to complete credits and when done in high school, will never look back on the pythagorean theorum ever again? ?   Because if the latter is your case, then I'd use Teaching Textbooks.  I'll go a little further and say I'm not a TT fan.  I've posted previously both for and against TT in the past and I'm sure you can find those.  But these ADHD kids, the screen is attractive and holds their attention longer.  My DS (severe working memory issues and pretty hefty inattentive ADHD) uses TT to teach and introduce math and then we follow behind with Saxon for added practice.  This is our first year of doing this - but it's been the best year of his schooling so far.

[jer2911mom]

Have you looked at Shormann math?  I haven't used it, have just been looking into it.  It includes 1/2 a geometry credit in Algebra 1 and can be done over more than a year (you have access for 2 years).  It has 20 problems per lesson, but he suggests using a timer rather than trying to finish a lesson a day.  It has 100 lessons (plus quizzes and quarterly exams), so there is time to spread it out.  It spirals like CLE.  The Algebra 2 includes 1/2 a geometry credit, too.  So you could take 3 years to do the 2 courses and not really lose any time credit-wise.

Kathy

[Kareni]

When my daughter worked through Lial's Beginning Algebra (this may be a different book than the one you're using as she's been out of college now for five years), I had her do about every fourth problem.  (She did not have any learning issues.)

Regards,
Kareni

[katilac]

If he can't do two sessions per day, can he do more school days? My kids don't have any issues like ADD, but they never cared for a long school day. They preferred more but shorter days, so we started the first week in August and usually had at least a couple of subjects going through June. They had all of July off, and usually a full week twice during the school year (once for vacation, once for Christmas).  Note: I just saw that he would finish algebra 1 by December of freshman year, which is more than adequate. Consider more days if it would make life easier, but it's not necessary imo. 

Why are you planning on a second trek through algebra? Just move on to geometry with algebra review and then a solid Algebra 2 program. My kids would have mutinied if they completed algebra and then had to start over. And silly mistakes are very, very common at this age and level. I would say it is the most common issue with all students, it's something they have to get past with practice and maturity. 

We could not stand the wordiness of Lial's, lol. Other programs to consider: 

• Teaching Textbooks - like BLSDMama says, it doesn't have a rep for rigor, but I do know that several people on the board have used it with kids who did indeed go on to STEM programs. We never wound up using it, but I recall my opinion being that it may be a little slow on when topics are included (like in algebra 2 instead of algebra 1), but it gets there eventually. 
• Holt's - my favorite of the textbook options; it teaches to the student, teacher guides are readily available, it has a pacing guide, and it has 3 levels of problems to choose from, basic, intermediate, and advanced. My oldest, who is far more math-savvy than I am, says it is very thorough. 
• ALEKS - this is an online option that can save a lot of time, because it assesses the student at the beginning and periodically, letting them move on when a topic is deemed "mastered." The student can choose what they work on each day from a list of topics they are "ready to learn" and my youngest really likes that. If they don't have the background to tackle a certain topic, it does not appear on the "ready to learn" list. Now, I do not think ALEKS is as thorough in covering concepts as something like Holt, but it gets the job done. I know several local homeschoolers who used it throughout high school and then went on to university calculus with no problems. The program used to be certified so students could get ACE college credit, but it isn't anymore, I have no idea why. ALEKS is $20/month. 

If he likes Lial's fairly well and has good retention, I would not dismiss the idea of crawling through it, then moving on to geometry and algebra 2.  You said that he would finish by 
December of 9th-grade at his current pace, which does not put him behind at all. You may live in a district where most 8th-graders finish algebra, but that is not the norm across the country by any means. Even if he takes 3 semesters for geometry and algebra 2 as well, he still winds up with a final semester for precalc algebra. There's nothing wrong with that! 

However, if he is strongly disliking Lial's, I'd consider a trial of ALEKS. 

I would avoid repeating algebra if at all possible. I think forcing a repeat of a class he didn't enjoy but successfully finished might be very discouraging. 

[sbgrace]

Thank you--I had missed the most recent replies. I think I probably haven't been using Lial's most efficiently for him. I'm also starting to lean toward trying something else. I like some of these ideas, and am looking into them.