College in Canada? Also, Cognitive Science?

[Dmmetler]

DD has a conference next month where Toronto was the closest airport with good connections, and we’ve decided to make a family trip of it. And everyone googles colleges and universities when they are looking for things to do on vacation, right? 

And on York University’s website, we found that they have a cognitive science major that has DD drooling. About the only thing better would be to find a program just on Reptile ethology. In a lot of ways, it looks more like a graduate program than an undergrad. She likes that. We’re going to do a campus visit. 

So, can anyone tell me about applying/attending college in Canada as a US Citizen? Or does anyone know of cognitive science programs that she should check out? 

[Dicentra]

14 hours ago, dmmetler said:

DD has a conference next month where Toronto was the closest airport with good connections, and we’ve decided to make a family trip of it. And everyone googles colleges and universities when they are looking for things to do on vacation, right? 

And on York University’s website, we found that they have a cognitive science major that has DD drooling. About the only thing better would be to find a program just on Reptile ethology. In a lot of ways, it looks more like a graduate program than an undergrad. She likes that. We’re going to do a campus visit. 

So, can anyone tell me about applying/attending college in Canada as a US Citizen? Or does anyone know of cognitive science programs that she should check out? 

 

First off - you need to say "university" and not "college".   If you say that your dd is looking to attend college in Canada, people will assume that she wants to go to a trade school, not somewhere that grants degrees.  "College" in Canada means schools that (mostly) award trade certificates or diplomas for 1 or 2 year programs.  Universities are the only schools that can award degrees.  There can be colleges within universities but most people would refer to the university name, not the college name.  The colleges within universities are based on the British system (i.e. King's College at Cambridge, etc.) and not the same as stand-alone colleges, which are the trade schools.

Is the York program this one?  https://futurestudents.yorku.ca/program/cognitive-science

That does look cool.   I think you'll find that undergraduate degrees in Canada cover more of what would be covered in graduate programs in the States.  In a 4 year undergraduate program, the student will be taking program-specific courses from the first year - we don't have courses like "Freshman Comp" or gen ed requirements.

If London, ON isn't too far away from where you'll be, you may want to check out Western's Brain and Mind Institute:

http://www.uwo.ca/bmi/

These are some of the undergraduate programs she might be interested in:

http://psychology.uwo.ca/undergraduate/programs/honors_specialization_bsc/index.html

http://www.psychology.uwo.ca/undergraduate/programs/honors_dev_cog_neuro_bsc/index.html

This website is only for Ontario universities but it has some good browsing features:

http://www.electronicinfo.ca/

I don't know anything about applying/attending university in Canada as a US citizen but hopefully someone else can chime in!

ETA: I just found this website - it might be helpful in knowing how to apply as an international student:

https://www.cicic.ca/857/study.canada

Edited June 4, 2018 by Dicentra
New info

[Bluegoat]

I know Memorial University has a program in Cognitive and Behavioural Ecology.  I think it might be a graduate program, I don't know what they offer along those lines at an undergrad level, though I'd expect that the same professors also work with undergrads.  Memorial is a nice university, a nice size - not too big and not too small, and it's in a great city.  Newfoundlanders are very warm people.  

McGill I think also has a significant cognitive science program, but I don't know much about it.  Montreal is also a great city though.

[Dmmetler]

We'll check it out. As far as I can tell, in the US, you might be able to get one or two classes at the undergrad level, but for the most part, the undergrad degree is a generalist one. Especially since DD will have the associates already, the idea of being able to specialize is encouraging.

Since JMIH is in Rochester this year, the Canadian Herpetological Society is a sponsoring organization, so there should be good representation from Canadian schools. The ideal would be to find a school that is really strong in behavioral ecology of herps :).

 

 

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, dmmetler said:

Since JMIH is in Rochester this year, the Canadian Herpetological Society is a sponsoring organization, so there should be good representation from Canadian schools. The ideal would be to find a school that is really strong in behavioral ecology of herps :).

University of Ottawa has an Honours Bachelor of Science in Biology (Research Focus) - Ecology, and Behaviour option that looks interesting. I'm not sure whether specific profs are actively doing research with herps, but you can do some investigating through the website: http://catalogue.uottawa.ca/en/undergrad/honours-bsc-biology-research-focus-ecology-evolution-behaviour-option/#programrequirementstext

[Dmmetler]

Thanks! She has time to check it out. It looks like she may have to take a gap year to be eligible for a student visa, since she’ll be graduating before she turns 18. Which might not be a bad thing, anyway. 

[wagingpeace]

I read an article a while back about how different frogs respond differently to changes in the environment and the authors were from Guelph University. Not sure exactly what departments though. Guelph has a well-known zoology program, and also majors like biodiversity and wildlife conservation. Guelph is near Toronto, so it might be fun to check out. In terms of cognitive science, U of Toronto has a program. I applied and got accepted to it way back when, but I ended up choosing a different field and different school. I remember really being attracted to the interdisciplinary nature of the program, but I also felt there was a strong emphasis on AI, which wasn't that interesting to me at that time.

And I agree with Dicentra that the great thing about Canadian universities is that you get to jump into your major right away, without having to take lots of general courses.

Good luck!

[wintermom]

18 hours ago, wagingpeace said:

I read an article a while back about how different frogs respond differently to changes in the environment and the authors were from Guelph University. Not sure exactly what departments though. Guelph has a well-known zoology program, and also majors like biodiversity and wildlife conservation. Guelph is near Toronto, so it might be fun to check out. In terms of cognitive science, U of Toronto has a program. I applied and got accepted to it way back when, but I ended up choosing a different field and different school. I remember really being attracted to the interdisciplinary nature of the program, but I also felt there was a strong emphasis on AI, which wasn't that interesting to me at that time.

And I agree with Dicentra that the great thing about Canadian universities is that you get to jump into your major right away, without having to take lots of general courses.

Good luck!

Guelph is a wonderful university for animal studies. It's the location of one of the very few English-language universities in Canada you can get a doctorate in veterinary medicine, and it has a lot of other biology studies/researchers all collected in one location. For example, there is a Dept. of Integrative Biology within the Faculty of Science. https://www.uoguelph.ca/ib/

There also seems to be a lot more opportunity to get involved in research right in the Bachelor programs, rather than having to wait until grad studies. 

[Dicentra]

10 hours ago, wintermom said:

Guelph is a wonderful university for animal studies. It's the location of one of the very few English-language universities in Canada you can get a doctorate in veterinary medicine, and it has a lot of other biology studies/researchers all collected in one location. For example, there is a Dept. of Integrative Biology within the Faculty of Science. https://www.uoguelph.ca/ib/

There also seems to be a lot more opportunity to get involved in research right in the Bachelor programs, rather than having to wait until grad studies. 

 

I thought about suggesting @dmmetler look at Guelph for her dd but they seem to be quite anti-homeschool.  Although...  Dm's dd won't be technically homeschooled, as she will be a transfer student, so that might make a difference.

[Dmmetler]

I know one of the folks in the state Herp society here did his doctorate on how wood frogs are responding to climate change in The Northwest Territory (it’s rare to have a Canadian talk at a TN conference-it stood out). I wonder what school he went to? 

[Dicentra]

3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

I know one of the folks in the state Herp society here did his doctorate on how wood frogs are responding to climate change in The Northwest Territory (it’s rare to have a Canadian talk at a TN conference-it stood out). I wonder what school he went to? 

 

Definitely ask!

[wagingpeace]

16 hours ago, Dicentra said:

 

I thought about suggesting @dmmetler look at Guelph for her dd but they seem to be quite anti-homeschool.  Although...  Dm's dd won't be technically homeschooled, as she will be a transfer student, so that might make a difference.

I've never talked to them in person, so I don't know what vibes they give off in terms of homeschooling, but the info on their website looks pretty similar in terms of requirements as the other universities in Ontario. Basically homeschool up to grade 11 and then either complete 6 4U credits, including the prerequisites for the specific program, or do SAT/ACT including SAT subject tests for the subjects that are prerequisites for the specific program. This link also includes requirements for homeschooled students from the United States, which does seem more stringent since they say the diploma has to be "accredited" whatever that means. Anyway, you're right, Dm's dd would not necessarily fall into that category. She would more likely fit into the "international transfer student" category. This link has info for American students who have done some community college, as well as those who have a diploma from a community collage. Sounds like a much easier process!

Guelph also has open online courses that are a guaranteed pathway to admission that are another option for homeschool students (they can do them while in high school, I don't think there is a minimum age). They are pricey though, and my own dd has balked at the idea of her first university experience being online, so I've not looked deeply into them.

Good luck to your dd, dmmetler! I love hearing about her exploits!

[Dmmetler]

One thing I’ve noticed on the various Canadian schools (York, U Toronto, McGill, and now Guleph)is the numerical averages. Does anyone know if they are able to convert from the more common US scale from 0-4?? I know for York, there is a difference in support for international students with an average over 95 vs one with an average of 90. DD currently has a 4.0 college average-but I don’t think there is any way to get that she had 107 in psychology and 93 in Spanish last term short of going through her binder and averaging her grades manually (DD knows only because the psych final was optional if you had an average above 90, and the Spanish teacher did the final early (since it was half a state-wide competency exam and half an oral exam) and gave them their final grade at the final exam, which ended up being eating and spending the hour practicing conversational skills).  

[katilac]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

One thing I’ve noticed on the various Canadian schools (York, U Toronto, McGill, and now Guleph)is the numerical averages. Does anyone know if they are able to convert from the more common US scale from 0-4?? I know for York, there is a difference in support for international students with an average over 95 vs one with an average of 90. DD currently has a 4.0 college average-but I don’t think there is any way to get that she had 107 in psychology and 93 in Spanish last term short of going through her binder and averaging her grades manually (DD knows only because the psych final was optional if you had an average above 90, and the Spanish teacher did the final early (since it was half a state-wide competency exam and half an oral exam) and gave them their final grade at the final exam, which ended up being eating and spending the hour practicing conversational skills).  

 

Some American schools do this, too, or they use the A+, A, A- system. If you had a 99 but your high school or college only uses an A, it seemed to put you at a disadvantage. I never delved too deeply, though, bc dds wound up not applying at those schools. 

Your dd is early on, so maybe you could try to document as you go? I'd ask each professor to provide a numerical grade, either in writing or in an email. Then you could provide an unofficial document to go along with her transcript and have backup for it. If some professors decline, just put "no numerical grade provided" for those classes. You would at least have something, and it's easier to do as you go along. 

[wagingpeace]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

One thing I’ve noticed on the various Canadian schools (York, U Toronto, McGill, and now Guleph)is the numerical averages. Does anyone know if they are able to convert from the more common US scale from 0-4?? I know for York, there is a difference in support for international students with an average over 95 vs one with an average of 90. DD currently has a 4.0 college average-but I don’t think there is any way to get that she had 107 in psychology and 93 in Spanish last term short of going through her binder and averaging her grades manually (DD knows only because the psych final was optional if you had an average above 90, and the Spanish teacher did the final early (since it was half a state-wide competency exam and half an oral exam) and gave them their final grade at the final exam, which ended up being eating and spending the hour practicing conversational skills).  

My understanding is that for American students, they will be evaluated on a U.S. system grading scale, namely the 4.0 system. You just report whatever system is used including the grading scale (the college transcript probably has the grading scale in a sort of legend somewhere on it). This is from the Guelph site: "Senior level courses should include specific subjects that are required for admission to your degree program of choice. Particular attention is paid to performance in program prerequisites. Your school profile with grading scale should be included with documents, and all sent through Parchment/Naviance whenever possible." And further down on the page:  "Out-of-Country Canadians in U.S. schools are evaluated for admission and scholarships using both the U.S. GPA and the SAT or ACT, not grade percentages alone."

This is what the York U page says for high school graduates from the United States: Grade 12 graduation with a minimum overall average of "B" on Grade 11 and Grade 12 academic courses. "High School Diploma; SAT score of 1170 (SAT submission code: 0894) or ACT score of 24 (ACT submission code: 5250). SATs/ACTs are considered in combination with academic record and are only required of students studying in the United States, Puerto Rico and Guam. Transfer credit granted for final scores of 4 or 5 on the Advanced Placement (AP) exams, depending on the program (maximum 30 credits)." Each program has specific courses that you would have to have. Presumably the "B" would be the cut-off. And they would interpret "B" however the school you are coming from interprets "B."

For a transfer student, requirements depend on the program. For example, this is what it says for cognitive science for a community college transfer: "Completion of a diploma program or at least two full semesters or one year of full-time academic study at an accredited college. Overall average of 3.0 or better on a 4-point scale (or equivalent)."