Dolciani Pre-Algebra question

[cintinative]

I am looking through this and comparing it to Math in Focus Course 2. There is a lot of statistics in Course 2 that is not in here.  Would it be wise for me to add this in? Does this have something to do with my edition year (1982 for Dolciani)?  Anything else that is in "modern" math I should be looking out for? 

[Sneezyone]

Yes, it would be wise to add that in. Common Core has a lot more stats content woven in and students will be expected to know that for PSAT/SAT/ACT. If you’re not planning to test or plan to do stats prior to testing as a discreet topic then there’s no need to add. At DDs school, they have skipped stats content (they don’t get that far in the texts) two years in a row. I teach it over the summer.

[ScoutTN]

My Dolciani PreA book is 1992 and has a chapter on Stats and Probability. (Ch 12)  Does yours not have that or is the Dolciani coverage just less thorough than the MiF? 

Dd is taking PreA with WHA and I noticed today that they are skipping a couple of the sections in that chapter. I was already thinking maybe we would go back and do that material this summer, but now I am sure we will. 

[cintinative]

  

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

My Dolciani PreA book is 1992 and has a chapter on Stats and Probability. (Ch 12)  Does yours not have that or is the Dolciani coverage just less thorough than the MiF? 

 

No, there is no probability or statistics at all. This is something I did not consider when I purchased an older edition.  In my book Chapter 12 is rational numbers.  

ETA: Chapter 10 is "Percentages and Statistics" but it only covers percents, applications of percents, and range, median, mode, etc.  My MIF book covers stem and leaf plots, box and whisker plots, absolute deviation, probability, relative frequency, etc.

I wonder what else I might be missing??  

[cintinative]

The other thing I noticed was that significant digits were covered in Course 2 and not in Dolciani.  I plan to incorporate that as well.  

I'm starting to worry about the Algebra I book I own though--it's old also. 

[ScoutTN]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

  

 

No, there is no probability or statistics at all. This is something I did not consider when I purchased an older edition.  In my book Chapter 12 is rational numbers.  

ETA: Chapter 10 is "Percentages and Statistics" but it only covers percents, applications of percents, and range, median, mode, etc.  My MIF book covers stem and leaf plots, box and whisker plots, absolute deviation, probability, relative frequency, etc.

I wonder what else I might be missing??  

I sent you a PM. My book has a different arrangement of topics. It does not cover stem and leaf plots or box plots, absolute deviation (but does cover standard deviationin an enrichment section) or relative frequency. Sounds like the MiF book goes deeper/broader. 

 

[cintinative]

Bumping to see if anyone has an opinion on the 1992 versus 1982. I am wondering if I should order the 1992 now. 

[ondreeuh]

I'm really happy with MIF. My son is doing Course 2 now, and we will probably finish Course 3 before doing Algebra. The S&S is much broader than an old-school pre-algebra program, for sure. I have a few Algebra 1 books on my shelf (Dolciani '86, Foerster, Burger '07, and Lial) and I'm leaning towards Foerster with MWB, or Holt (which I used for my older son and liked)

[cintinative]

13 hours ago, ondreeuh said:

I'm really happy with MIF. My son is doing Course 2 now, and we will probably finish Course 3 before doing Algebra. The S&S is much broader than an old-school pre-algebra program, for sure. I have a few Algebra 1 books on my shelf (Dolciani '86, Foerster, Burger '07, and Lial) and I'm leaning towards Foerster with MWB, or Holt (which I used for my older son and liked)

 My original plan was to continue through Course 2 and accelerate it so we can do Algebra I in 8th. Unfortunately I don't think we'll be able to pull that off. We spent the whole year doing Course 1 and it seems unlikely we would need less than another two to finish Courses 2 and 3.  

Which Holt do you own? Also which Foerster?

[ondreeuh]

4 hours ago, cintinative said:

 My original plan was to continue through Course 2 and accelerate it so we can do Algebra I in 8th. Unfortunately I don't think we'll be able to pull that off. We spent the whole year doing Course 1 and it seems unlikely we would need less than another two to finish Courses 2 and 3.  

Which Holt do you own? Also which Foerster?

 

Sorry, I wrote that post in fragments and didn’t stay consistent. The Holt 2007 series has Burger as the main author. His videos are used in Thinkwell. You can access the videos for free on the web (for now) if you google site:my.hrw.com homework help. He used that series for courses 1-3, Algebra and Algebra 2. I have the teacher one-stop planner CDs with all of the worksheets & assessments. My only concern using it again is that it is pre-CC and will likely repeat a lot of mIF course 3 (which is ok; my kid is young.

The Foerster I have is the reprinted Prentice Hall Classics version. 

[Lecka]

I have a 7th grader in public school and the changes of Common Core have taken me by surprise.

I would suggest looking at a list of topics on Khan Academy or the Common Core website.

For me I have revised my expectation of Algebra in 8th grade.  It is not comparable to when I was a student.  If it were, I would expect him to take Algebra in 8th grade.  With how it is now, I am satisfied with him waiting, since the regular sequence is more challenging, and the advanced sequence would be very fast.  

Definitely there are still kids who take he advanced sequence, and it is appropriate, but it really surprised me to see just how much content from higher classes has been spread to lower grades, since I had not been aware.  

Keep in mind too, my understanding of CC 8th grade is it is going to cover about half of what I covered in high school Geometry.  So if you are doing a middle school math sequence with Common Core and then an older Geometry course, half the material might have already been covered. 

And if you use a CC middle school sequence then about half of an older Algebra course might be covered, too.

I am a little clueless on this but it’s how it seems to be.  

Edit:  I am less clear on Geometry, but as a 7th grader in 7th grade CC math, my son has covered half of what I covered in 8th grade Algebra I.  Then next year it looks like he will be doing a lot of Geometry.  Then what is listed for Algebra looks like it starts about half- way through “my” Algebra I and covers part of “my” Algebra II.  

Edit again: I think now where we are, Algebra in 8th grade is for very strong and motivated math students, not just for good students headed to college, which is more how it was when I was in school, and why I had expected it for my son.  And then there are a handful of kids who are more advanced than that, and they are very, very strong in math.  But it’s just different than what I expected.  

[ondreeuh]

52 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I have a 7th grader in public school and the changes of Common Core have taken me by surprise.

I would suggest looking at a list of topics on Khan Academy or the Common Core website.

For me I have revised my expectation of Algebra in 8th grade.  It is not comparable to when I was a student.  If it were, I would expect him to take Algebra in 8th grade.  With how it is now, I am satisfied with him waiting, since the regular sequence is more challenging, and the advanced sequence would be very fast.  

Definitely there are still kids who take he advanced sequence, and it is appropriate, but it really surprised me to see just how much content from higher classes has been spread to lower grades, since I had not been aware.  

Keep in mind too, my understanding of CC 8th grade is it is going to cover about half of what I covered in high school Geometry.  So if you are doing a middle school math sequence with Common Core and then an older Geometry course, half the material might have already been covered. 

And if you use a CC middle school sequence then about half of an older Algebra course might be covered, too.

I am a little clueless on this but it’s how it seems to be.  

Edit:  I am less clear on Geometry, but as a 7th grader in 7th grade CC math, my son has covered half of what I covered in 8th grade Algebra I.  Then next year it looks like he will be doing a lot of Geometry.  Then what is listed for Algebra looks like it starts about half- way through “my” Algebra I and covers part of “my” Algebra II.  

Edit again: I think now where we are, Algebra in 8th grade is for very strong and motivated math students, not just for good students headed to college, which is more how it was when I was in school, and why I had expected it for my son.  And then there are a handful of kids who are more advanced than that, and they are very, very strong in math.  But it’s just different than what I expected.  

 

This is my impression too - that CC algebra+ is more advanced than pre-CC courses, because the CC foundation is stronger. My son just finished 4th grade (yay!) and he is already into Course 2 (7th grade). We will keep working over the summer, and I wouldn't be surprised if he finished Courses 2 and 3 next year in 5th grade (math comes naturally to him, and MIF is a perfect fit). BUT I feel like I have two paths to take - do MIF C3 and then a CC-aligned algebra in 6th, or finish MIF C2 and move straight to a pre-CC-aligned algebra midway though 5th. He is smart but young, and one of the reasons MIF works so well for him is that they have workbooks he can work straight out of. He greatly prefers that to copying problems out of a book. He has done MIF from the beginning, so I am inclined to finish out the series and then see what is on the market then. Hopefully something with a usable workbook!

[Lecka]

Now I don’t know what the higher levels are like...... but for 7th grade Engage NY/Eureka is like that, the problems are written out and there is workspace.  I don’t know really how it compares but it is much better than a textbook for my son..... except I have gotten a supplementary textbook for him because all he has is this all-in-one packet with some explanations and then problems.  There is no index and he does not have anyway to look at things from earlier in the year (in practice — maybe the more organized kids manage better than he does). 

[Sneezyone]

5 hours ago, Lecka said:

I have a 7th grader in public school and the changes of Common Core have taken me by surprise.

I would suggest looking at a list of topics on Khan Academy or the Common Core website.

For me I have revised my expectation of Algebra in 8th grade.  It is not comparable to when I was a student.  If it were, I would expect him to take Algebra in 8th grade.  With how it is now, I am satisfied with him waiting, since the regular sequence is more challenging, and the advanced sequence would be very fast.  

Definitely there are still kids who take he advanced sequence, and it is appropriate, but it really surprised me to see just how much content from higher classes has been spread to lower grades, since I had not been aware.  

Keep in mind too, my understanding of CC 8th grade is it is going to cover about half of what I covered in high school Geometry.  So if you are doing a middle school math sequence with Common Core and then an older Geometry course, half the material might have already been covered. 

And if you use a CC middle school sequence then about half of an older Algebra course might be covered, too.

I am a little clueless on this but it’s how it seems to be.  

Edit:  I am less clear on Geometry, but as a 7th grader in 7th grade CC math, my son has covered half of what I covered in 8th grade Algebra I.  Then next year it looks like he will be doing a lot of Geometry.  Then what is listed for Algebra looks like it starts about half- way through “my” Algebra I and covers part of “my” Algebra II.  

Edit again: I think now where we are, Algebra in 8th grade is for very strong and motivated math students, not just for good students headed to college, which is more how it was when I was in school, and why I had expected it for my son.  And then there are a handful of kids who are more advanced than that, and they are very, very strong in math.  But it’s just different than what I expected.  

 

Yep, exactly so. DDs school uses Engage NY too. I’m having her do Derek Owens honors Algebra 1 next year but will pace it such that she gets partway through his Geometry class as well.

[mirabillis]

We have used Dolciani Pre-A for 3 kids now. Ours is a 1992 version and does have the ch 12 stats/probability. We just completed ch 12 last week for my 6th grader, and I had my 8th grader who finished Pre-A last year tag along, as she didn't have time for ch 12 last year. It was a really, brutally light intro into statistics/probability. I was able to go over main topics briefly in 2 days. So you can easily add that in on your own. Biggest new material is factorial (!), but otherwise nothing terribly new. So don't sweat not having this chapter in your version is not a big deal. Here is how Dolciani Pre-A prepared us:

DS Rising 11th grader: Dolciani Alg 1 at home,  Wilson Hill Geometry (Jurgenson), Wilson Hill Alg 2 (Dolciani), Wilson Hill Precalculus (Larson), next year AP Calc AB
--super strong mathy kid - A's in all

DD Rising 9th grader: Alg 1 (Jann in TX), next year Geometry (Jann in TX)
--not as strong at math, but gpt A's in Alg 1 this year under Jann in TX's nurturing tutelage

DS Rising 7th grader: just completed Dolciani Pre-A - will plan to follow DS1's path. 

[cintinative]

4 hours ago, mirabillis said:

We have used Dolciani Pre-A for 3 kids now. Ours is a 1992 version and does have the ch 12 stats/probability. We just completed ch 12 last week for my 6th grader, and I had my 8th grader who finished Pre-A last year tag along, as she didn't have time for ch 12 last year. It was a really, brutally light intro into statistics/probability. I was able to go over main topics briefly in 2 days. So you can easily add that in on your own. Biggest new material is factorial (!), but otherwise nothing terribly new. So don't sweat not having this chapter in your version is not a big deal. Here is how Dolciani Pre-A prepared us:

DS Rising 11th grader: Dolciani Alg 1 at home,  Wilson Hill Geometry (Jurgenson), Wilson Hill Precalculus (Larson), next year AP Calc AB
--super strong mathy kid - A's in all

DD Rising 9th grader: Alg 1 (Jann in TX), next year Geometry (Jann in TX)
--not as strong at math, but gpt A's in Alg 1 this year under Jann in TX's nurturing tutelage

DS Rising 7th grader: just completed Dolciani Pre-A - will plan to follow DS1's path. 

 

What did you use for Algebra II? Dolciani?

[mirabillis]

oops i forgot his alg 2 class... added it! dolciani for alg 2