historymatters Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Is Geometry or Algebra II more prevalent on the PSAT and SAT? Also, I'm trying to decide about my son's order of math courses. He's midway through Alg. I. and 10th gr. He is going to take a foundational Algebra class in May, and SAT math prep in spring 2019, but other than that, I'm stumped. He'll be taking Chemistry next year. My options: #1: Take Geometry in the summer w/Mr. D while finishing Alg. I. Then Alg. II w/myhomeschoolmathclass 2018/19 as a junior PSAT in October 2018 Take SAT spring '19 Maybe Pre-calc or other math as senior 2019/20 #2: Take Geometry 2018/19 w/myhomeschoolmathclass as a Junior PSAT in fall '18 SAT in spring '19 Take Alg. II in 12th grade, 2019/20 #3: Take Alg. II in 2018/19 w/myhomeschoolmathclass as a Junior PSAT fall '18 SAT spring '19 Take Geometry in 12th 2019/20 Can someone provide some guidance? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Geometry is on Sat and psat. Postponing until 12th is not an option. Is your student strong enough to have a shot at national merit? If not, there is no point in bothering with the psat. Edited February 16, 2018 by regentrude 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) So, option #1 or #2? #1 if taking the PSAT? He's very strong in the English/Reading and Writing Portion (91%). My hope is to strengthen him in math sufficient to be in the running for National Merit. I've looked all over the websites of Collegboard and NMS to find the scores which he needs to qualify, amd the pinned posts under PSAT, to no avail. Anyone know the score needed? Is it 98 or 99% in one or both? Edited February 16, 2018 by historymatters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Geometry is on Sat and psat. Postponing until 12th is not an option. Is your student strong enough to have a shot at national merit? If not, there is no point in bothering with the psat. Unless the student qualifies as Hispanic/Latino and can participate for the National Hispanic Recognition Program. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/scholarships-and-recognition/national-hispanic-recognition-program My DD only studied for the exam for one or two days, but she was in the top 2.5% for her Region. That recognition, for a student who is Hispanic/Latino might result in Merit Aid from universities that are looking for Diversity students. I believe the PSAT is much more important than the PreACT exam which DD hasn't taken. That's for 10th graders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJosMom Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 National Merit cutoffs are set at approximately the top 1% in each state using the Selection Index. Compass Prep has a good explanation of the process. They also have a good track record of estimating the cutoffs. Have you had your student take a practice test yet? It might be a good idea to do that, calculate his Selection Index, and then decide if he's in the ballpark. If so, Khan Academy has free prep material, including instructional videos. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) I would go with option #1 so that he can finish high school with precalc, and accordingly, be ready for college-level math when he gets to college. I think this is a much more important consideration than the testing.NM is based on the Selection Index (reading, writhing and math test scores each out of total possible 38, added and doubled). Here is this year's PSAT score document (Understanding Scores) with percentiles, if that helps (pay attention to "user" percentiles rather than "national"). It also explains the Selection Index. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/psat-nmsqt-understanding-scores.pdf Even though the SI is weighted two-thirds reading and writing, and even though perhaps the PSAT doesn't include very much algebra 2, I think it would be pretty challenging to attain a PSAT math score high enough for NM without the completion of algebra 2 (guessing wildly based on my junior's change in math score from fall sophomore to fall junior year; she took alg 2 as a sophomore). Here are Sawyer's guesses for this year's NM cutoffs https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/ Edited February 16, 2018 by wapiti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Algebra II has more questions than Geometry for both PSAT and SAT. Don’t forget to revise Problem Solving and Data Analysis as well. Link to comparison table by CollegeBoard https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/about/alignment/math/psat-nmsqt-sat There is only two practice tests released by CollegeBoard for PSAT but it would still give you a good idea. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/practice/full-length-practice-tests The score for NMS is the selection index and is state dependent. “NMSC uses PSAT/NMSQT Selection Index scores (calculated by doubling the sum of the Reading, Writing and Language, and Math Test scores) to determine 50,000 high-scoring participants who qualify for program recognition.†https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/student_guide.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61&sessionid=b2da4dcc-db2e-486f-9ad1-1a5bac176626&cc=1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Unless the student qualifies as Hispanic/Latino and can participate for the National Hispanic Recognition Program. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/scholarships-and-recognition/national-hispanic-recognition-program I believe the PSAT is much more important than the PreACT exam which DD hasn't taken. That's for 10th graders. No, he's not Hispanic or Latino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Have you had your student take a practice test yet? It might be a good idea to do that, calculate his Selection Index, and then decide if he's in the ballpark. If so, Khan Academy has free prep material, including instructional videos. Thanks. He took the PSAT last October, 2017. He's not in the ballpark. His English skills just need some improving, but he really struggled in the math section. He struggles with depression and in 2015, had a really bad bout, so that's why he's behind. We need him to qualify for as many scholarships as is feasible, so he needs to get his math up-to-snuff. Edited February 16, 2018 by historymatters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 I would go with option #1 so that he can finish high school with precalc, and accordingly, be ready for college-level math when he gets to college. I think this is a much more important consideration than the testing. NM is based on the Selection Index (reading, writhing and math test scores each out of total possible 38, added and doubled). Here is this year's PSAT score document (Understanding Scores) with percentiles, if that helps (pay attention to "user" percentiles rather than "national"). It also explains the Selection Index. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/psat-nmsqt-understanding-scores.pdf Even though the SI is weighted two-thirds reading and writing, and even though perhaps the PSAT doesn't include very much algebra 2, I think it would be pretty challenging to attain a PSAT math score high enough for NM without the completion of algebra 2 (guessing wildly based on my junior's change in math score from fall sophomore to fall junior year; she took alg 2 as a sophomore). Here are Sawyer's guesses for this year's NM cutoffs https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/ Algebra II has more questions than Geometry for both PSAT and SAT. Don’t forget to revise Problem Solving and Data Analysis as well. Link to comparison table by CollegeBoard https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/about/alignment/math/psat-nmsqt-sat There is only two practice tests released by CollegeBoard for PSAT but it would still give you a good idea. https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/psat-nmsqt-psat-10/practice/full-length-practice-tests The score for NMS is the selection index and is state dependent. “NMSC uses PSAT/NMSQT Selection Index scores (calculated by doubling the sum of the Reading, Writing and Language, and Math Test scores) to determine 50,000 high-scoring participants who qualify for program recognition.†https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/student_guide.pdf?gid=2&pgid=61&sessionid=b2da4dcc-db2e-486f-9ad1-1a5bac176626&cc=1 Thanks to both of you. So, if he takes the summer Geometry, then Alg. II in the fall/spring, he'll see most of his improvement on the SAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Ds is in 10th this year, taking Algebra II, and also took the PSAT this past October. My thoughts are along the lines of others, but I also wonder, what Chemistry is he taking? Ds is planning on doing BJUP chemistry this fall, and IMO, Algebra II should be a pre-requisite (not just Algebra I). Is your ds doing a math based chemistry or not? I'd be inclined to do #1, and to really look at the math involved for the chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historymatters Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Ds is in 10th this year, taking Algebra II, and also took the PSAT this past October. My thoughts are along the lines of others, but I also wonder, what Chemistry is he taking? Ds is planning on doing BJUP chemistry this fall, and IMO, Algebra II should be a pre-requisite (not just Algebra I). Is your ds doing a math based chemistry or not? I'd be inclined to do #1, and to really look at the math involved for the chemistry. The Chemistry will probably be Apologia. It's through our co-op and the schedule for next year isn't up, yet. On the class description, the prerequisite is only Alg. 1. If he takes Geometry in the summer, he'll be taking Alg. II concurrently with Chemistry. I'll double-check before committing. He can take Anatomy and Physiology instead, if that would be a better idea. Then, take Chemistry in 12th. But, due to his age, I'd rather not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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