A question about what you would consider being "advanced" in high school

[NCMom]

A friend has a daughter who is in 8th grade by age but makes a big deal that she is advanced and is doing 9th grade work. (Not in a mean way, just making sure my kids know, lol)

 

However, she is doing Alg I and Physical Science, no foreign language, etc. In my book she is doing a normal 9th grade and one that could put her at a disadvantage math-wise at the very least. The high schools around here have an advanced track that would have you do Alg in 7th or 8th and Bio in 8th or 9th so that you get in 4 maths easily and 4 sciences ~not~ including Physical Sci.

 

So the point to this blabbing is this - it's none of my beeswax, but her mom is worried that she will graduate too early for her maturity level but apparently can't think of anyway to tell the child she needs to take the max amount of time to graduate. :) Should I mention to the mom that while maybe the child is doing advanced work for some 9th graders (and maybe for her age) she is probably not doing a very rigorous college prep track.

 

If I'm not totally crazy then this might sway the child since she wants to be a doctor or some such and attend a fairly prestigious school and is so pleased to be "advanced".

 

What do you think?

tia,

Georgia

[Kissy]

Personally I would not consider that rigorous either. It does sound for those subjects she is average for a 8th or 9th grader. I was college prep in high school and not in advanced classes and I took algebra in 8th and physical science in 8th too. That was over a decade ago. That being said I am not sure I would say anything if it were my friend. I would tell her if she says she is worried her child will graduate early maybe suggest that she could always take more math and science before graduating.

[Rhondabee]

curiousity is killing me.....

 

Is the girl in 8th grade, but taking a few 9th grade classes

 

or

 

is she in 9th grade?

 

Also, it's hard to tell if the mom is just bragging without try to *sound* like she's bragging, or if she's genuinely concerned. If she is genuinely concerned, she should talk to the guidance counselor.

[MelodyInTx]

I would just tell mom to take her daughter and go talk to the guidance counselor. Tell her to let the counselor know that she is interested in becoming a doctor. No need for you to share the bad news.

 

But I do see that around here as well. Some of the schools are calling regular classes advanced and honors. It makes me very afraid when I think about the students who are in the 'regular' classes.

[Susan in IL]

Definitely not advanced IMHO. Around here, Physical Science is not even offered at the high school, it is an 8th grade class. About half of the 8th graders take alg. 1.

 

Both of mine did alg. 1 and phyiscal science in 8th. For 9th it was (is)geometry and Honors Biology. The oldest then took Honors Chem, Physics, AP Chem and AP Bio at the local high school. He also did Alg. II at home, then Pre-Calc and AP Calc at the high school. He is now in college at a more selective school in a medical field.

 

You might suggest to her that she should check out some of those prestigeous school web sites and look at the rigor and requirements. Some even say 4 credits of math including alg. 1, geo., alg. II and one other higher math. At the rate she is going, she wouldn't graduate early. She might also look to see how they view rigor, meaning AP or CC classes. Then she should work backwards to see where her dd really is, and it might show she is not as advanced as she thinks she is.

 

Good luck!!

[NCMom]

I thought it seemed a little wierd.

 

I did screw up the post though - the girl is homeschooled and her mother does consider her to be on track to graduate one year early age wise.

 

But to my way of thinking the argument could be made that she will be graduating 1 year early without having done as rigorous a college prep as she could have and for her career aspirations, should have. So really she wouldn't be gaining anything as far as I can see and possibly, if her mom is right about the maturity level, she might actually come out on the short end of the stick...

 

thanks again,

georgia

[Pamela H in Texas]

I would assure the mom that she could easily have her kiddo go another 4 years, especially depending on her plans for college. Also, I would encourage her to consider a more rigorous curriculum in enable a BROADNESS of education rather than just a linear education.

 

JMO, her daughter isn't advanced. Algebra I and Physical Science sometimes are 9th grade classes in some locations (almost every that I've lived in). However, LOTS of kids take them early and there is PLENTY of math and science beyond them. Many of our kids double up on sciences in order to take the advanced sciences in high school.

[Stirsmommy]

Well I don't know that I would say anything to her because that isn't me. I will say that those classes are what my sixth grader is doing now. That said, she won't be graduating early. I figured out that when she is sixteen she will take college math/science classes through dual enrollment. It is what I did with my son for this "senior" year. Well all of his classes are there because he was completely done!

Melissa

[Tokyomarie]

JMO, her daughter isn't advanced. Algebra I and Physical Science sometimes are 9th grade classes in some locations (almost every that I've lived in). However, LOTS of kids take them early and there is PLENTY of math and science beyond them. Many of our kids double up on sciences in order to take the advanced sciences in high school.

 

When I was in high school back in the early '70s, Algebra I in 8th grade WAS considered to be accelerated in many, many school districts that served communities with high numbers of college bound students. Biology in 9th grade was only offered to a select group of honors students. I would venture that even today, this is still the case in a majority of districts around the country. While I don't have statistics, my personal observations are that the majority of *college bound* students still take their first Algebra course in 9th grade. It is still split as to whether students will take a physical science or biology as their 9th grade science course. This is based on listening in on discussion lists for 10 years, looking at curriculum offerings in our local schools and the international schools where we used to live, and talking with friends and family members around the country. My personal observation is that very often it is the uber-large public high school in wealthier districts with highly educated parents or the private prep school that will offer Alg. I as accelerated for 6th or 7th graders. I don't think the typical district has a critical mass of students who are ready to take the class at that age.

 

I do know that changes in some states' mandated curriculum are beginning to change this. California is one state that comes to mind. Michigan fairlly recently established state mandated graduation requirements and it will be interesting to see where the typical school district is 5 years from now.

 

Given my observations, I think it's perfectly reasonable for the mom to have assumed and given her daughter the idea that Alg. I and Physical Science at 8th grade age is "advanced"- by one year anyway. However, I also think it's perfectly reasonable for a *close* friend of such a mom to gently, over several conversations, help the mom to consider that graduating her daughter a year early probably isn't in the girl's best interest. She should take, while remaining a high school student, those courses which will help her be an attractive candidate for any college that is even mildly competitive.

[Kareni]

You might recommend a few books for your friend to read especially since her daughter would like to attend a prestigious school. Here are a few:

 

What High Schools Don't Tell You - 300+ Secrets to Make Your Kid Irresistible to Colleges by Senior Year by Elizabeth Wissner-Gross

 

and her other book: What Colleges Don’t Tell You by Elizabeth Wissner-Gross

 

Another I'd recommend is How to Get Into the Top Colleges by Krista Klein and Richard Montauk.

 

The Wissner-Gross books have a tone that I don't always care for, but they would certainly inform your friend as to what competition her daughter is up against. The Klein/Montauk book is a great overview for any parent whether their child is looking for an elite college or not.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[mcconnellboys]

I've had this happen to me several times. I have said nothing and will continue to say nothing. My state has graduation requirements, including college tracks posted on numerous websites. I feel certain that other states have this, as well, or that the info is available online from colleges themselves regarding what they want to see, as well as from other sources. If someone is deluded in this regard, I think it is because they choose to be deluded and thus would not appreciate my bursting their bubble.....

 

Just smile and wave, boys, just smile and wave (as my children would say)......

 

Regena

[Michelle in MO]

I have a dear friend whose daughter is considered to be doing advanced work, and yet my daughter, who is the same age, is doing way more than the other girl. It's irritating, but I don't say anything. I figure that eventually real life will settle in and eventually the discrepancy will be figured out. And, I may find out I have some rude awakenings in some areas, too (although I hope not! :rolleyes:)

 

When I was in high school, the advanced math students took Algebra in 8th grade. I took it in 9th, although I was on a college-prep. track with everything else. My two girls have done Algebra in 8th grade and also Physical Science. Our high school has both options for Algebra (8th and 9th grades) but does Physical Science in 9th grade. If we enroll our middle daughter at the high school next year, I'm hoping they won't make her repeat either class and will allow her to have high school credit for these courses.

[ereks mom]

...she will be graduating 1 year early without having done as rigorous a college prep as she could have and for her career aspirations, should have. So really she wouldn't be gaining anything as far as I can see and possibly, if her mom is right about the maturity level, she might actually come out on the short end of the stick...

 

I think you're right. And as another poster said, there are PLENTY of math & science courses that could be taken in high school beyond those "usual" courses. ER, my science-oriented ds, did Physical Science in 7th grade & Algebra 1 in 8th, and for the next few years (he's a senior this year), he took all the "usual" science & math courses in sequence, plus some additional ones (space science, advanced chemistry, college algebra). IMO, the mom needs to broaden as well as deepen her daughter's curriculum so that it will meet the rigor needed for the career she has in mind.

 

Like you, I know a woman whose dd is "advanced" -- 6th grader taking 8th & 9th grade courses. I think it has been detrimental for this particular child to have been pushed ahead -- yes, her mom pushed her; she's not really that bright -- because although she is "ahead" academically, she is socially WAY behind. The child has almost no social life (almost NO same-age friends, spends almost ALL of her spare time reading fantasy fiction & doing anime on the computer) and doesn't know how to behave in a social setting. She alienates most of her peers because she is continuously pointing out to them how "sdvanced" she is compared to them.

[Only me]

While I don't think this particular girl is necessarily advanced I do think some kids are pushed too fast. I depends so much on the school or area what is considered advanced. For instance a daughter of a friend of ours was always in "average" math classes K-6th and probably would have been in line to start algebra in 9th grade. They moved to a different state for 7th grade and all of a sudden she was put into algebra 1 for 7th grade. She essentially skipped two years of math. She is an intelligent girl and has done pretty well in math. I still think that just by moving to a different state she didn't magically become gifted. For one thing I've noticed that their grading scale for math is very low. At my dd's high school she has to get a 93% for an A 71% or less is a D. I can't remember her grading scale exactly but I know that to get an A all she needs is an 85 a 71 would be considered a B- or C. I feel it is giving her parents a false sense of how much she is truly learning the material. This isn't to say that some 7th graders (or younger) and many 8th graders aren't ready for algebra. I just think this girl shouldn't have skipped 2 years. I'm sure she missed out on some topics that are usually covered.

 

As far as science I think it really is different from school to school too. The public school around here has physical science for 9th grade and biology for 10th grade. The school where my dd goes this year as a sophomore has biology for 9th grade and physical science for 10th grade. Both schools have chemistry junior year. I don't think it is even an option for a student to skip either of those. Even some of the top large schools around here have physical science during the high school year.

 

As far as this girl is concerned I think it would be detrimental for her to graduate early. If she is a year "ahead" she can just spend time her senior year doing more advanced classes.

[mcconnellboys]

I think this is what you see all over our country. We simply don't have any sort of standardized system of education at any level, for any track. Practically every school in the country is doing something different with their students in every single subject. What one school considers "advanced" may be standard fare at another school. Kids enroll in college with a huge array of differences in preparation. I wouldn't really expect it to be any different with homeschoolers. What one person thinks is difficult is too easy for another.

 

While sound preparation is good, I think teaching kids to think for themselves, think outside the box, ANALYZE, etc. is the most important skill for insuring that they'll be able to succeed in college. And, hey, even if they don't get the prep at home, if they're smart kids, they'll pick up quickly on what they need to do to succeed once they get to college.

 

I'm not exactly happy about the academic level of the school my older son's attending now, as I happen to think that I provide more rigorous academics (and now, so does he, LOL). But I also think that there are other important life lessons that can be gleaned from this time that might end up being just as important in later life as pure academic knowledge, so I'm trying to just grin and 'bear' it (and I *am* a bear).....

 

So I try not to let it bother me when folks (hs or otherwise) talk about doing 'advanced' work, even if I feel that, in my book, it's not what *I* would consider advanced. Perspective is the only reality that really counts. If what they're doing seems challenging and fulfilling for them and their students, then who am I to question that? Some folks become Olympic athletes; some folks run marathons; some folks just walk for health and enjoyment, stopping often along the way. They all may think they're doing worthwhile work; they all may feel they're challenging themselves; they all may feel they're reaping rewards from their activities which will benefit their future lives - how do I rate one over the other? They must choose for themselves.....

 

Regena