Recommendations for Mild Dyslexic

[Guest]

My ds will be 8 next month.  We did Logic of English A, and half of All About Reading 1.  He is reading CVC words, and words with blends.  We haven't really got to any long vowels, or vowels teams.  He knows "SH", "CH", and "WH".  At the beginning of this year we have just been working though ETC (almost done with 1), and Bob Books.  I am feeling like I need to add back in AAR for explicit phonics instruction, or something else.  Luckily he has picked up everything easily so far in LOE and AAR.  He has just been a slow reader, sounds everything out, and has some letter/number reversals.

 

Would you recommend us finish AAR 1, and then continue on with AAS?  Or because of his age do you think we could do something like I See Sam readers and All About Spelling?  Or do you think it would be a mistake to not finish AAR?

 

I am open to any other suggestions.  

[PeterPan]

Maybe take out the word mild, which leaves you with just dyslexic, and get Barton.

 

He's WAY behind. I would get Barton. You're spending money after money and valuable time, and most importantly his MORALE, on things that aren't designed for dyslexia and clearly aren't working.

 

You have a guess on his IQ? Discrepancy matters. Even if you're saying well he's rising 2nd, well he's reading on a K5 level. And if he has an above average IQ (which many dyslexics do, many homeschoolers do), then he's EVEN MORE discrepant. So he's 2, maybe 4 grade levels behind where he should be for IQ. 

 

So get serious, get Barton. I don't know why there's this voice, sorta vocal on a blog and at conventions, that keeps on saying AAR is the bees' knees for dyslexia. Whatever. My kid I guess you could label "mildly dyslexic" and he reads GREAT now thanks to Barton. Barton is kinda gold to me. 

 

Adding: While you're waiting, go ahead and do the Barton pre-test. You want to make sure he passes it. He might need a precursor program first.

Edited September 7, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Guest]

Thanks OhElizabeth. I should say that he hasn't officially been diagnosed. His dad has dyslexia though, and he has all the symptoms too. I kind of thought maybe he was just behind because I hadn't got further in his phonics instruction. We started with something else at the beginning of last year before I heard of LOE. Everyone said to start with A so he could learn all the letter sounds. After LOE A I switched to AAR so we could move a little slower and work on fluency. We took a little break over the summer, and just worked on ETC to also help with fluency.

 

Do you still think he needs Barton? Is Barton easy to teach?

Edited September 7, 2017 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Barton is fully scripted. Students | Barton  That's the link for the pre-test.

 

And really, I'm not meaning to be abrupt or grouchy. I just drove 4+ hours for therapy and drank some tea to stay awake, meaning I'm a little wired or edgy. But I'm just saying the truth. I've been where you are, and I know sometimes it helps me to have somebody from the outside come in and say WOW, do you realize what's going on? Like a different perspective.

 

So I'm saying odds are he's got some pretty significant discrepancy at this point. Your little boy is getting noticeably behind. I would just move on, get the big guns, get it going. Barton is VERY easy to use and HIGHLY effective.

 

I put all my ds' Barton work into Quizlet to drill for fluency. How many times a day are you working with him? When my ds was at that stage, we were doing Barton 3-4 times a day in very SHORT sessions. LIke 10 minutes, 3-4 times a day. And some of those would be fluency work with a Quizlet app, yes. And I bookended them with movement games, games to build working memory, things crossing the midline, etc.

Edited September 7, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

I kind of thought maybe he was just behind because I hadn't got further in his phonics instruction. 

 

You had a death in the family or a serious injury that kept you from teaching? The flip side is that if the curriculum had been giving you all the tools you needed and you were seeing SUCCESS, nothing would have kept you from teaching. More likely you weren't teaching because it wasn't going well and you were scrambling, trying to figure out what to do (slow it down, do something magical, whatever). So instead of blaming you, I'm saying blame the real problem, the curriculum. If your curriculum were WORKING, probably nothing would have held you back. You're a person with 4 kids with serious accomplishments as a homeschooler. You've done algebra and everything else. If the curriculum were giving you the tools you needed, you'd be getting it done.

[Guest]

You had a death in the family or a serious injury that kept you from teaching? The flip side is that if the curriculum had been giving you all the tools you needed and you were seeing SUCCESS, nothing would have kept you from teaching. More likely you weren't teaching because it wasn't going well and you were scrambling, trying to figure out what to do (slow it down, do something magical, whatever). So instead of blaming you, I'm saying blame the real problem, the curriculum. If your curriculum were WORKING, probably nothing would have held you back. You're a person with 4 kids with serious accomplishments as a homeschooler. You've done algebra and everything else. If the curriculum were giving you the tools you needed, you'd be getting it done.

I was teaching. I just meant that we didn't get as far last year because I switched from LOE to AAR. We only took off a couple weeks over the summer. He was picking everything up easily in AAR though. He just hasn't got fluent yet, and sounds out most words.

 

I will look into Barton though, and give him the screening. As a side note....he does have two half siblings that have autism, and he was a later talker also. So he has a family history of learning disabilities. He talks and communicates wonderfully now though.

[ElizabethB]

Have you seen my Syllables program? I now have videos, and it works you through how to teach Webster's Speller. My struggling students, including those with dyslexia, have all been helped by Webster's Speller. I would work through it quickly while you are figuring out what to use, it is designed for a remedial elementary student. The fluency tracking it has may help you both see progress, it is hard when it takes a while and tracking WPM with the same type of words over a few months helps you see incremental progress.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/syllablesspellsu.html

 

You definitely want to keep teaching something, whether that is AAR or AAS or Barton.

[hepatica]

I would agree with OhElizabeth on this one. Get Barton. I have been through all of those - AAR, AAS, LOE, ETC, and many more. None of them worked with my dyslexic children ( I have three ). My middle DD did learn to read in first grade using AAR and OPGTTR, so I did not think she was dyslexic. She is now almost 14 and her reading difficulties are apparent, especially in more complex, non fiction texts. I wish I had started on Barton with her from the beginning.

 

My DS 9 was in the same boat as your ds. I tried AAR preK and AAR1, as well as ETC, and he just wasn't making progress. He was stuck just where your DS is stuck. Mid way through second grade we switched to Barton and it made all the difference. If I had it to do over again, I would use Barton with all my children (regrets....). 

 

IMO, there is no point in waiting any longer. Your DS is 8 and is not reading for no apparent reason (as least as far as I can see from your post). That is dyslexia. Barton seems expensive, but it is well worth it.

[City Mouse]

Ill be a third vote for starting Barton now. I knew my DS had issues, and there is a family history of reading issues on both sides. I tried a bunch of other things first and waited until he was 10 or 11 to start Barton. If I could do it all over again I would have started Barton much earlier.

[Zinnia]

I wasted a year in public school, then a year with AAR, before we started Barton.

 

I also wish that we had started from the beginning

[Chanley]

Yup! LOE and AAR were a couple of the curricula that we tried and hit a brick wall. Barton was the answer and I wish I had not wasted so much time and money on the others. All in all, I believe I tried 6 different reading programs before hitting a home run with Barton. 

[Guest]

Thank you all.  I really appreciate your advice.  I am going to give it 1-2 more months, and see how things go.  If at that time we are still at the same place I will be ordering Barton.  

 

Can someone tell me how Barton is different than LOE or AAR?  I haven't researched it yet, and I do not know a lot about it.  What makes Barton successful when the others are not?

Edited September 11, 2017 by Guest

[TheReader]

Another vote for Barton. I wish wish wish wish wish we'd started when my son was only turning 8, when he was first diagnosed. I hadn't heard of it, then, and honestly at that point he would have failed the pretest, and we'd still have had to spend the first year doing what we did, but the 2nd year, when I was plodding through AAS mixed with Bob Books, mixed with IEW's PAL program, mixed with....a lot of "what do I do next? where do we go from here?" 

 

He was making progress, but not fast enough. The amazing thing with Barton is he's gaining so much more in the same amount of time. We spent a year going from letter sounds to Bob Books to leveled readers (that were like torture).....more or less a year's worth of progress, so you think, "Okay, cool, this is working..." Only, with dyslexia and with Barton, you need to (and Barton gets you there) to progress faster, because that year's worth of progress just means you're either not losing ground or maybe even falling further behind. Barton helps the student actually make gains and close the gap. 

 

I wish we'd known about Barton sooner and hadn't wasted time on all the other stuff. My son is 12.5 and finishing Barton Level 3 and able to read "Magic Tree House" books (and do his own reading when he plays video games, follow movie subtitles, read his history and science glossaries to find vocabulary definitions, etc.), and we're ecstatic about that.....because barely a year ago he could just sound out Bob Books and it took us 10 to 15 mins to read one. Now he can read a chapter of a Magic Treehouse book, with inflection, enthusiasm, appropriate pacing & voice effects (being happy on the happy parts, scared on the scared parts, etc.), in 5 minutes per chapter. Still not at all where he needs to be, but he's gaining now instead of holding steady/losing ground.

 

Mostly, though, Barton is worth it because it takes away all of the guess work about "what next?" 

[TheReader]

Thank you all.  I really appreciate your advice.  I am going to give it 1-2 more months, and see how things go.  If at that time we are still at the same place I will be ordering Barton.  

 

Can someone tell me how Barton is different than LOE or AAR?  I haven't researched it yet, and I do not know a lot about it.  What makes Barton successful when the others are not?

 

I was typing while you were writing this...

 

What makes Barton different is that is designed specifically, directly, only, as a curriculum for students with dyslexia. The others "can work" for those with dyslexia, but were designed for a student without learning disabilities, so they simply don't have everything that Barton does. 

 

Also, Barton goes all the way through high school reading level, so it is one program, from letter sounds to the end of instruction. No switching, no 'what next", no "where do we go from here?", no trying to learn one program, then another, then another. Because what will happen with the other programs, is you will get to the end of it.....and no magic lightbulb will click on for your son.

 

He can sound out words...but he isn't reading fluently. When you get to the end of AAR (or one of the others), he will only have made it to being able to do whatever it is those programs are designed to teach, and he won't be doing it fluently...there will still be hang-ups, mistakes, problems, etc. because those programs don't teach to a dyslexic student.  

 

Barton does. Barton moves smoothly through each aspect of teaching to read, teaching phonics, teaching *language* as a whole, so that the student is learning the next thing before the parent/teacher even gets to the point of "oh, he's improved on this, but now he's struggling with that..." -- before even realize there is/could be a next problem, Barton is already teaching it and your son is moving right along. With the others, what happened with my son at least, we'd get to the end of a program or a level of a program, and he was still struggling with some aspect that the program hadn't covered. And so then I had to figure out what to use, what to do, etc. And we'd do that, and he'd make progress, a lot like you're describing, and I'd think, "Oh, it's working..."....until the next time we hit a bump, snag, stumbling block, etc. And so I'd shift again. Because we were perpetually "going slow, taking our time, tweaking it, having to adjust...." 

 

Barton still lets me go at his pace, but yet it still moves more quickly (for us, so far), because it anticipates the problems the dyslexic student is going to likely have, and teaches those things before they become problems. 

 

Seriously. It's worth its weight in gold. 

[PeterPan]

Thank you all.  I really appreciate your advice.  I am going to give it 1-2 more months, and see how things go.  If at that time we are still at the same place I will be ordering Barton.  

 

Can someone tell me how Barton is different than LOE or AAR?  I haven't researched it yet, and I do not know a lot about it.  What makes Barton successful when the others are not?

 

Did we give you the link for the Barton pre-test? You might go ahead and do the pre-test at least. It's not a placement test. It's a test to see if the student has the foundational skills/prereqs to succeed in ANY program. Failing sections there would indicate holes that need to be filled in no matter what program you use.

 

Students | Barton

 

There's the link. Only takes a few minutes to administer the test, and it's free. Definitely do it. That way you aren't bummed a few months from now if you decide to make a move and realize you needed a precursor step first. And you might not, not everyone does. But it's just free information to have now as you make your choice.

 

As far as differences, well I taught my dd with SWR/WRTR. SWR was what the author of LOE trained on before she made her spin-off version. She was trained by Sanseri. Sanseri was trained by Spalding. Spalding was trained by OG. (Or maybe it was only O or G? I forget.)  OG is the GOLD STANDARD in dyslexia instruction. Thing is, Spalding's goal was to streamline OG to bring it to the masses and revolutionize NON-disability instruction. And it's GREAT for that!! But that is why all these programs (AAR, LOE, SWR, WRTR) are so close but not quite. As the others explained, there's still extra stuff, more steps, more care, more little glitches that Barton and OG programs anticipate and catch that programs aimed at non-disability students don't NEED to do. 

 

So LOE, AAR, SWR, WRTR, these are all really good programs. But when things aren't progressing, it's because you need ALL the tools and methodology, not their streamlined versions. My ds is that "mild" borderline, not severe, whatever you want to call it, and Barton was rocket fuel for him. I think that's what you need to catch, that it's the difference between kinda sorta maybe progressing but it's HARD vs. materials that fit so well that the student can be a rock star. My ds, in Barton 3/4 (I forget where exactly) tested with a 3rd grade decoding and 5th/6th grade overall reading at the same age your ds is. There's just no reason to accept such lack of progress, especially when it's "mild". That's what ought to be making you upset. Mild dyslexia with great intervention has GREAT outcomes.

Edited September 11, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Guest]

I hear what everyone is saying, and I appreciate all your advice.  My issue right now is that my son WAS making progress with both LOE and AAR.  He was picking everything up very easily, and remembering it all.  We are not any further right now because *I* switched programs, and it put us further behind.  I got the grass is greener syndrome (I hated teaching LOE...I am not a games person.  I like get it done programs more), and should have just stuck with it.  

 

After LOE A we started with AAR 1 and had got to lesson 16.  Everything with AAR was going great!  He was understanding every lesson, remembering every phonogram sound.  He hasn't shown any real struggles in reading other than he still sounds everything out.  Maybe that is from my switching programs, so he hasn't developed fluency yet.  He honestly was a late talker, and has been late to do everything, so maybe his reading without sounding out will come slower?  I have read a lot of AAR students are still sounding out by the end of 1, and then become fluent in AAR 2.  But as far as phonics instruction goes....he has been picking up everything, and not struggling at all.  

 

I am going to do the Barton screening though.  If he failed........what would we need to do to fill in holes before starting Barton?

Edited September 11, 2017 by Guest

[Pen]

Do the screening asap.

 

If he fails, then report back on that.

[Guest]

Ok....I went ahead and did the screening with my dd (6.5) and my ds (almost 8). I did the screening one at a time. My 6.5 year old is having the exact same issues as my ds. They both failed task A and B, and both barely passed C.

 

They both also have speech issues. They change l's and r's to w's, and thy both have trouble with the /th/ sound.

 

My dd now 14 struggled with reading too. When she was little we used several different programs trying to find one that would help, and CLE's Learn to Read is finally what got her reading. Then her spelling was awful and we went through Apples and Pears, and IEW Phonetic Zoo and it's a lot better now. I guess I just thought my younger two would be similar. I knew we had issues, but I just thought if we kept working at it that things would eventually click.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Guest

[PeterPan]

Screening Results | Barton  Here's her doc on how to score. You might just pick up the phone and give her a call. Barton is a real delight to talk with, and she'll literally just take your call. She's in CA, so you can call now and for a while yet and still get her.

 

My ds has verbal apraxia, and for him it was really helpful to blend his speech therapy methodology (PROMPT) and LIPS and Barton. Normally, like just looking at what the website says, she would say go straight into Barton. It's ok for the 6 yo to be struggling with /th/. The others though they should both have by now. I think one question, given the family history and that they were late talkers, is whether there's praxis of speech involved. You could look into PROMPT. You go to the PROMPT Institute and use their (very horrible) provider locator thing.

 

For us the two were blended. The LIPS methodology where you can see how it's formed, look in the mirror, look at it on the face, move those around, connect how it feels and how it looks, that was really helpful for my ds. My *guess* is that you would be well-served to take the time to do it. I personally wouldn't skip it. The materials will cost you money, yes, but you can resell them and recoup. It will be a REALLY POWERFUL TOOL to get things to click.

 

I would also be wanting a speech eval.

[Chanley]

I have used Foundations In Sound with a kid who could not pass the screening test. It was a lifesaver! It dovetails into Barton beautifully and it made level one so much easier for this kid. I highly recommend starting there if you are not successful with the screening.  

Edited September 15, 2017 by Chanley

[MerryAtHope]

I hear what everyone is saying, and I appreciate all your advice.  My issue right now is that my son WAS making progress with both LOE and AAR.  He was picking everything up very easily, and remembering it all.  We are not any further right now because *I* switched programs, and it put us further behind.  I got the grass is greener syndrome (I hated teaching LOE...I am not a games person.  I like get it done programs more), and should have just stuck with it.  

 

After LOE A we started with AAR 1 and had got to lesson 16.  Everything with AAR was going great!  He was understanding every lesson, remembering every phonogram sound.  He hasn't shown any real struggles in reading other than he still sounds everything out.  Maybe that is from my switching programs, so he hasn't developed fluency yet.  He honestly was a late talker, and has been late to do everything, so maybe his reading without sounding out will come slower?  I have read a lot of AAR students are still sounding out by the end of 1, and then become fluent in AAR 2.  But as far as phonics instruction goes....he has been picking up everything, and not struggling at all.  

 

Honestly, if AAR was working, I think I would pick back up with it. You already invested the money--why not continue with it? The author was told her son had severe dyslexia and would never read or write (see her video)--which led to her creating the program. It has worked for lots of dyslexic students. In the latest edition of The Well-Trained Mind, Susan Wise Bauer calls it "the most age-appropriate and parent-friendly Orton-Gillingham program on the market." If it wasn't working and he wasn't making progress then I'd investigate why, but if he is, why stop? I would get back into it though, and help him progress so that he can get to long vowels and more complex words in his timeframe. AAR takes students up to high school level word-attack skills, so it's a complete "learn to read" program. You may want to visit their Dyslexia Resources page. And, if you are seeing specific trouble spots (like working on fluency), you can always email for support. HTH some!

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

I would try some phonemic awareness activities first.  It sounds like you might have to do something like LiPS before any program will work well.

 

I like the Sounds of Speech app/website for seeing and hearing the sounds, they have a side view of the tongue and throat and mouth for each sound that makes it really clear what you are doing (supposed to be doing!) for each sound. 

 

http://soundsofspeech.uiowa.edu/index.html#english

 

The app is really cheap for what you get.  

 

Here is my blending video, watch it with him, it explains why blending and segmenting are hard.

 

 

For more along those lines and some pictures of sound waveforms of letter sound approximations vs. syllables vs. words, see my dyslexia page, the section on "the atomic nature of syllables," about halfway down the page, pics after a bit of text explanation.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/dyslexia.html

Edited September 17, 2017 by ElizabethB