Some basic high school questions, please?

[madteaparty]

I have been reading, and I saw a post to the effect that to award a full foreign language credit for high school the student needs to spend 50 min/day minimum. Is this correct? If my student spends instead 150 min/week on one of his languages, can I award half credit?

Second, a 3 or more credit course at a 4 yr college would count for a full "yearly" high school credit, correct? So (theoretically), if DS takes English 101 as DE for the fall semester, he is done with the English requirement for that year? (we wouldn't, obviously, just curious for purposes of my record keeping).

Thank you

[The Girls' Mom]

I can't answer the FL question, but generally, yes a 3 credit course at college counts as 1 HS credit.  I have let their DE credit classes in english count as their year of English.  

[teachermom2834]

Technically I think you can award the half credit but I think it is really unusual to have a half credit of FL. If you are continuing the language I would wait and award a whole credit at completion.

 

I guess if it is a second FL or something unusual a half credit as an elective might make sense but I wouldn't put .5 credits of Spanish on a transcript. Same as I wouldn't award a half credit of biology. I would either do it to completion or scrap it. I just think it looks really odd on a transcript. I could see myself getting creative and rolling it in with something else and renaming it. I could be totally wrong though! I am interested in other opinions.

 

Yes, a three credit hour college class can count as a whole year. I really didn't think the comp classes mine took were enough for a full year of high school English so one took a business communications class in addition and the other took a literature class. But each was listed as a full credit on the transcript. They just had an extra English.

Edited March 12, 2017 by teachermom2834

[madteaparty]

Technically I think you can award the half credit but I think it is really unusual to have a half credit of FL. If you are continuing the language I would wait and award a whole credit at completion.

 

I guess if it is a second FL or something unusual a half credit as an elective might make sense but I wouldn't put .5 credits of Spanish on a transcript. Same as I wouldn't award a half credit of biology. I would either do it to completion or scrap it. I just think it looks really odd on a transcript. I could see myself getting creative and rolling it in with something else and renaming it. I could be totally wrong though! I am interested in other opinions.

 

Yes, a three credit hour college class can count as a whole year. I really didn't think the comp classes mine took were enough for a full year of high school English so one took a business communications class in addition and the other took a literature class. But each was listed as a full credit on the transcript. They just had an extra English.

Yes I agree it would look odd and totally unnecessary as he has other foreign language credits in there. These are languages we have been studying for a few years and will continue (so it will be intermediate Arabic 1 or 2, for example) but it's with a tutor and we are not spending 50min a day everyday...

I agree on English, we'd take the same approach. It's just I hope to travel second semester of 9th grade and go to a "all kindle and museums" approach ;)

[Lori D.]

On 3/12/2017 at 1:48 PM, madteaparty said:

I have been reading, and I saw a post to the effect that to award a full foreign language credit for high school the student needs to spend 50 min/day minimum. Is this correct? If my student spends instead 150 min/week on one of his languages, can I award half credit?

Second, a 3 or more credit course at a 4 yr college would count for a full "yearly" high school credit, correct? So (theoretically), if DS takes English 101 as DE for the fall semester, he is done with the English requirement for that year? (we wouldn't, obviously, just curious for purposes of my record keeping).

Thank you

Regarding DE and counting credits -- you will get a wide variety of answers and reasons why people awarded what they did. ? Some people follow what their local public school policies are. Some just go with a straight 1:1 credit policy (1 semester college class = 1 year high school credit). Some base it on a class-by-class basis.

My personal policy for awarding credit on our homeschool transcript is to try and shoot for roughly equivalent credits -- so I look at:

- volume of work
- rigor or level of material (i.e. is it typically used in middle school, high school, advanced high school, or college)
- hours spent on the material (see chart)

. . . . . . . . . . . .min. . . .avg. . . max.
1.00 credit = 120 . . 150 . . 180  hours
0.75 credit =   90 . . 110 . . 135  hours
0.66 credit =   80 . . 100 . . 120  hours
0.50 credit =   60 . . . 75 . . . 90  hours
0.33 credit =   40 . . . 50 . . . 60  hours
0.25 credit =   30 . . . 35 . . . 45  hours

Here's an excerpt from my homeschool high school sessions and hand-outs for families new to transcripts and record-keeping:

Tips for counting credits:
- be consistent
- exceptions are acceptable
- be fair to your student
- beware of padding
- credit hours can accumulate over more than 1 year
- awarding credit for dual enrollment:

college units = high school credit
3-unit course = 0.5 credit (lower rigor, time less than 100 hr.)
3-unit course = 1.0 credit (high rigor, time more than 100 hr.)
4-unit course = 1.0 credit (higher rigor, time more than100 hr.)
5-unit course = 1.0 credit (average rigor, time more than100 hr.)
5-unit course = 1.25-1.50 credit (high rigor, time more than150 hr.) 

Just my experience, as neither our school district nor our CC have a policy/standard about awarding credit for dual enrollment.

For example: 4-unit Foreign Language courses clearly covered enough volume of material and took enough hours (class time + homework + study) to equal 1 credit for 1 semester.

On the other hand, the 1-semester 3-unit Writing 101 and 102 courses they took at the CC (not as DE), had not even as much material and assignments as what we covered in 1 semester of our homeschool high school -- and the material was not really any harder than what we did in high school. So, I would have only awarded 0.5 credit for those. In contrast a 200-level 3-unit Sociology class required a lot of reading, outside research, 8 tests, and 8 papers -- I would have awarded that course 1.0 credit.

With all of that explanation as preface ?, my short answer to your 2 questions:

1. On my transcript: 150 min/week x 36 weeks = 0.5 credit up to 0.66 credit (depending on the volume of work and the rigor/level of the material).

2. On my transcript: a 3-unit DE English 101 class = 0.5 credit, unless it was a rigorous course with a lot of writing, reading, and outside-of-class work.

BEST of luck in wearing the administrator hat for YOUR homeschool high school transcript and record-keeping!  :hat:  Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Lori D.

[Guest]

Seat time rules in NY. Here English 101 is a half high school credit, since it is taught in one semester. Students that DE must take both 101 and 102 to satisfy the 12th grade english requirement.

 

Calc 1 has options. If its taken in one semester (at the high school, or the CC or online), its a half high school credit. If its taken over two semesters ( at the high school or online), its a full high school credit.

[madteaparty]

Seat time rules in NY. Here English 101 is a half high school credit, since it is taught in one semester. Students that DE must take both 101 and 102 to satisfy the 12th grade english requirement.

 

Calc 1 has options. If its taken in one semester (at the high school, or the CC or online), its a half high school credit. If its taken over two semesters ( at the high school or online), its a full high school credit.

So glad I asked, thank you!

Is the seat time rule the same with 200 level and above classes? I'm trying hard to envision how (say) a French lit class, taught in French, is worth only one semester of high school French.

Edited March 13, 2017 by madteaparty

[katilac]

Yes, you can award half credits in foreign language.  

 

You can also award a full credit if they meet a standard skill level for one year of study. To define this, you can look at what various publishers cover in the year of study, or you can google stuff like "high school French year one," "high school Spanish 2 syllabus," and so on. There will be differences but you can get a good feel for what is generally acceptable. 

[Guest]

So glad I asked, thank you!

Is the seat time rule the same with 200 level and above classes? I'm trying hard to envision how (say) a French lit class, taught in French, is worth only one semester of high school French.

Think of it as Differential Equations is worth the same as half of Algebra 1a...both one semester. One semester seat time is one half high school credit. With language, we found our district had done a dumb down...FL2 and 3 cover only FL2, for 2 credits, and the real FL2 in two semesters for one credit option was eliminated. My takeaway was just list it and let the course description speak for itself.

[madteaparty]

Think of it as Differential Equations is worth the same as half of Algebra 1a...both one semester. One semester seat time is one half high school credit. With language, we found our district had done a dumb down...FL2 and 3 cover only FL2, for 2 credits, and the real FL2 in two semesters for one credit option was eliminated. My takeaway was just list it and let the course description speak for itself.

This is really interesting. Theoretically speaking, a NY kid that makes heavy use of DE seems to graduate with double the high school credits than a kid somewhere else in the country who counts a DE class for a full hs credit. Which brings me back to the thought that transcripts seem matter very little and one needs test scores for everything.

[8filltheheart]

This is really interesting. Theoretically speaking, a NY kid that makes heavy use of DE seems to graduate with double the high school credits than a kid somewhere else in the country who counts a DE class for a full hs credit. Which brings me back to the thought that transcripts seem matter very little and one needs test scores for everything.

Are you a NY resident? If not, I would not worry about how NY schools label DE. Different schools handle DE different ways and I personally would not replicate NY policy if I didn't live there. It doesn't just seem ridiculous. It is ridiculous to label diffEQ as 1/2 a credit alongside 1/2 of alg 1 when the full course of diffEQ has been completed and only 1/2 of alg 1 has been.

 

In terms of the bolded, that has not been our experience. I had Dd apply regular decision to university ranked around 30 nationally. I wanted to see how her non-traditional, no APs, no DE, only 2 subject tests (math 2 and Latin), and only Russian with outside verification via awards transcript and course descriptions would be received. She was admitted in the first round release of regular decisions. I think there is far more flexibly in how students are evaluated than is often put forth as conventional wisdom. Her acceptance letter stated that the admission committee was impressed by her obvious love of independent learning, languages, and cultures.

 

I think her transcripts with the course descriptions are what made the difference. Her languages were not just textbook based; they were learning from movies and books she knew in English and using those to improve her French. Her 11th grade English credit was a fairy tale study that crossed English, French, and Russian. Her sr English credit is an independent research project on Shakespeare. Test scores for French? Zero. Test scores for English? Her single sitting SAT score (not the subject test). Russian had LOR from her outside tutor and multiple high level awards. Maybe her Russian awards made up for everything else. I don't honestly know. But if so, Russian compensated for "lack of verification" across all other subjects.

Edited March 13, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[madteaparty]

Are you a NY resident? If not, I would not worry about how NY schools label DE. Different schools handle DE different ways and I personally would not replicate NY policy if I didn't live there. It doesn't just seem ridiculous. It is ridiculous to label multivariable calculus as 1/2 a credit alongside 1/2 of alg 1 when the full course of multivariable has been completed and only 1/2 of alg 1 has been.

 

In terms of the bolded, that has not been our experience. I had Dd apply regular decision to university ranked around 30 nationally. I wanted to see how her non-traditional, no APs, no DE, only 2 subject tests (math 2 and Latin), and only Russian with outside verification via awards transcript and course descriptions would be received. She was admitted in the first round release of regular decisions. I think there is far more flexibly in how students are evaluated than is often put forth as conventional wisdom. Her acceptance letter stated that the admission committee was impressed by her obvious love of independent learning, languages, and cultures.

 

I think her transcripts with the course descriptions are what made the difference. Her languages were not just textbook based; they were learning from movies and books she knew in English and using those to improve her French. Her 11th grade English credit was a fairy tale study that crossed English, French, and Russian. Her sr English credit is an independent research project on Shakespeare. Test scores for French? Zero. Test scores for English? Her single sitting SAT score (not the subject test). Russian had LOR from her outside tutor and multiple high level awards. Maybe her Russian awards made up for everything else. I don't honestly know. But if so, Russian compensated for "lack of verification" across all other subjects.

Eight, I do live in NY, in a neighboring district to Heigh Ho.

DS is interested in European schools, and so we need a minimum number of APs with a score of 5 on them. Otherwise, we have such great DE options that it seems a waste not to utilize them. My DS really thrives in a classroom situation, what can I say.

I'm more stunned at myself for not knowing this seat rule. Ds's friend skipped high school entirely and enrolled in college so I guess I never had the chance to learn. Glad I asked!

PS I do think the international awards in Russian make a difference, especially for a non legacy learner.

Edited March 13, 2017 by madteaparty

[8filltheheart]

DS is interested in European schools, and so we need a minimum number of APs with a score of 5 on them. Otherwise, we have such great DE options that it seems a waste not to utilize them.

 

If European schools are the main goal, I wouldn't think any of your credit questions matter. I wouldn't think the credits matter, only the test scores. In terms of DE vs. APs, have you contacted individual schools to ask?

[madteaparty]

If European schools are the main goal, I wouldn't think any of your credit questions matter. I wouldn't think the credits matter, only the test scores. In terms of DE vs. APs, have you contacted individual schools to ask?

European schools are part of the main goal. Another one is getting optimally educated. Here, that looks like all DE, all the time, with the exception of the AP hoop jumping. He may yet change his mind, he's 12.

 

I haven't contacted individual schools but one distinct advantage of these schools is that they state specific admission requirements on their website. So I'm not at all confused about what they want.

[8filltheheart]

European schools are part of the main goal. Another one is getting optimally educated. Here, that looks like all DE, all the time, with the exception of the AP hoop jumping. He may yet change his mind, he's 12.

 

I haven't contacted individual schools but one distinct advantage of these schools is that they state specific admission requirements on their website. So I'm not at all confused about what they want.

Well, there a homeschooler whose unschooled ds took no standardized tests except the STEPS and was accepted to Cambridge unconditionally. (IIRC, his ds didn't study much of anything but math. Definitely not an approach I would ever take with my children, but it worked out for his ds.)

 

That is not a path that should be recommended in general to anyone. Reading his son's academic journey is absolutely not the norm at all. But it does show that sometimes cut and dry might actually be a bit wet. It might be that DE credits, especially 200/300 level classes, might be acceptable. If they are that much of a better fit for your child, it might be worth asking.

[madteaparty]

Well, there a homeschooler whose unschooled ds took no standardized tests except the STEPS and was accepted to Cambridge unconditionally. (IIRC, his ds didn't study much of anything but math. Definitely not an approach I would ever take with my children, but it worked out for his ds.)

 

That is not a path that should be recommended in general to anyone. Reading his son's academic journey is absolutely not the norm at all. But it does show that sometimes cut and dry might actually be a bit wet. It might be that DE credits, especially 200/300 level classes, might be acceptable. If they are that much of a better fit for your child, it might be worth asking.

Wow. Even Malala got a conditional offer (at Oxford).

I will attend an open house this year and ask. Thanks for the data point :)

Edited March 13, 2017 by madteaparty