Eye problem? Normal? LD?

[Aubrey]

Ds7 is having trouble w/ his addition facts. Not so much that I'm worried, just frustrated, but dh mentioned an eye disorder he heard about recently, so now I'm wondering.

 

First, he has no trouble w/ memorization in general. He memorizes scripture quickly & well; he's learned his chants & vocab for Latin w/ enthusiasm; etc. And there's been nothing fancy about either of those. W/ scripture or poetry or whatever, I just read it to him, he says it w/ me, & then he can say it on his own. And I'm not talking about short sections, either. W/ Latin, he reads thr his vocab cards on his own. If I forget, he reminds me--he seems to enjoy it.

 

Ds7 is great at math. Conceptually, he flies. He taught himself to add when he was about 2 & to multiply when he was 4. He's on Singapore 4A mainly because we don't bother w/ math every day; I tend to try to get "caught up" in other areas because he's far enough ahead in math that I'm not too worried, kwim?

 

But we've finally hit a brick wall w/ 4A because he doesn't have his mult facts memorized. In working on that, I discovered that he doesn't know his add. facts as well as I thought he did. :glare: So I've been giving him timed quizzes several times a week to try to increase his speed. I figured he'd master the add & we'd move on to mult. I expected to have reasonable times in 6-12 weeks for all of the add/mult facts up to 10 +/x 10.

 

We're about 8 wks into it, though, & a test that he's supposed to be able to complete in 5 min is still taking 10-12 min if he tries REALLY hard. Addition. We haven't even moved on to mult yet.

 

So the other day I took the test from him & read it out loud. He called out answers, & I wrote them down. When he started to space, I was right there in it & could call him back to earth. When he got stuck, I could remind him, "Rule of 9" or "It's +1 for goodness sake!!!" He finished the test in under 8 min. Much better, but still too slow. Still *obviously* not memorized.

 

Dh said this could suggest that ds is auditory in his learning style, but he does so many other things that are visual--for ex, he can merely *look* at a logic puzzle & solve it effortlessly--that we both tend to think that's not it. Instead, dh suggested that there's an eye problem that involves info slowing down on its way to the brain. Kids w/ this problem are often misdx'd w/ ADD but the problem is solved/addressed w/ glasses. I've never heard of it but figured some of you might have.

 

My main frustration is that while we've tried a VARIETY of approaches to learning the tables, I see very little progress. I can tell he knows it, though. I'm not sure how, exactly, but it's like it's not quite worth it to him to access the info as fast as I want him to be able to. On a subconcious level. Some of his slowness is lack of strategy. I've tried to help him w/ this, but I'm afraid it's just a maturity issue.

 

It's like he likes the numbers themselves & wants to complete the tests in the right amt of time but gets distracted by their...numberness? LOL

 

I've tried marching, singing, computer games, handheld games, timed tests, flash cards, straight drill, etc. Help. me. :lol:

[JFSinIL]

Well, he is only 7.....

[Tammyla]

An eye exam wouldn't hurt, but he's young yet. Tying the visual skills and writing skills together along with math can slow a kid down especially when a timer is ticking. I know you are trying a number of way. I'd keep plugging along on.

[Parrothead]

Dd sounds just like your ds. Poetry is memorized within three readings, song lyrics are solidly in the memory banks fairly soon.

 

I thought she had the addition and subtraction facts down cold. Not! Someone here told me that it happens and to just keep working forward. Some kids don't get them memorized until they are about 12 even though they know how to use them.

[Perry]

My son has had great difficulty with math facts and we've tried many, many different approaches. We are finally making really good progress with ALEKS quick tables. Nothing else has worked. It's expensive though.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I actually went to a professional who deals with kids like mine about this because I was so worried. I was told to keep going in math. Dd7 would get her facts down when she was good and ready. Sooner or later, the problems would get more and more complex and it would be her idea to get those facts down. I was advised to give her a multiplication table to keep at her desk so she could refer to it. I thought that was NUTS but dd has improved a great deal since we started this. You hit the nail on the head when you said it doesn't seem worth it to your ds. It's getting more worth it to dd now that she's dealing with long division, fractions, and really is wanting to work hard to start pre-algebra, and I notice she remembers more of her facts.

 

I still make her practice her facts, but I don't make a big production out of it. I pretty much just give her a sheet of problems but don't time her, or I have her go on multiplication.com. I also put a few multiplication songs on her mp3 player.

 

So could it be an LD? Well, yeah it could, but if you don't have any other signs of an LD, it sounds like your ds is just being the kid he is. ;)

Edited October 22, 2008 by Academy of Jedi Arts

[Chris in VA]

My son needs to connect his learning to something that is like a story or is word-oriented. Math facts weren't too tough, but math itself is hard for him (sounds opposite yours!) Anyway, what we found is that math facts/processes were left-brain activity, and ds is right-brained. Although there is huge overlap, and some of the left side/right side stuff has been debunked, we've just found he needs some sort of context for the stuff he learns.

 

Have you tried Addition Tales? I think the Times Tales folks have that one, too. It puts a visual and a story to the facts. For me, I avoid it because I don't want the extra steps (like SWB says about giving extra steps when learning letter sounds--same principle, I would think, when learning mfacts). But your son may need something to hook the very abstract "numberness" to.

 

Maybe using tons of manipulatives, and leading him to memorization that way?

 

And actually, I would give him a year or so--he is only 7.

[dangermom]

If you've never taken him for an eye exam, it's a good idea to do that anyway.

[Aubrey]

I actually went to a professional who deals with kids like mine about this because I was so worried. I was told to keep going in math. Dd7 would get her facts down when she was good and ready. Sooner or later, the problems would get more and more complex and it would be her idea to get those facts down. I was advised to give her a multiplication table to keep at her desk so she could refer to it. I thought that was NUTS but dd has improved a great deal since we started this. You hit the nail on the head when you said it doesn't seem worth it to your ds. It's getting more worth it to dd now that she's dealing with long division, fractions, and really is wanting to work hard to start pre-algebra, and I notice she remembers more of her facts.

 

I still make her practice her facts, but I don't make a big production out of it. I pretty much just give her a sheet of problems but don't time her, or I have her go on multiplication.com. I also put a few multiplication songs on her mp3 player.

 

So could it be an LD? Well, yeah it could, but if you don't have any other signs of an LD, it sounds like your ds is just being the kid he is. ;)

 

I was told to just keep going, too, which is why we're on 4A w/out facts, lol. But when we started that this yr, he just...kind-of melted down. But I haven't given him a fact table to refer to. I've heard that suggested & can see the potential merits of that, but...eek. I guess I'm afraid to go *that* off the beaten path. I live across from a hs'ing mom w/ an engineering degree, & she makes the fact tables a BIG. DEAL.

 

I'm going to try it your way, though. I noticed yesterday he was getting pretty burned out on our current approach & was wondering what we'd do today. LOL

[Bambam]

He sounds a lot like my oldest. She can memorize poems or songs with no problem whatsoever. She has always been a whiz at logic puzzles. I didn't understand why she had problems memorizing math facts??? We tried Flashmaster, flashcards, Times Tables the Fun Way, songs, and skip counting - all over a long period of time. We finally stopped and I just waited - wondering "Will she EVER memorize the multiplication tables?"

I had her make her own set of multiplication tables to use as reference for her math. Once we hit fractions, it really became an issue that she did not have these memorized. I talked with a friend who teaches math in a private LD school. She said I should only use 7 flashcards at a time. Do them no more than 5 minutes per day, and try to do them daily (or twice a day - more than 2 hours apart though.) We've started this and it is working. We review the "known" facts each day, and then concentrate on the "learning" facts for a short time. I asked her why she thinks it is working. She replied "Maybe because I want to learn them now." Anyway, we only have about 15 fact left to memorize!

[Tabrett]

My dd was similar at that age. She has a very odd eye problem. She has 20/20 vision, but.... Her eyes work very hard. My recent eye doc gave her a prescription to help her eyes relax, but if they relax too much it can interfere with her vision KWIM? She is extremely aural. Can memorize song and scripture easily, but has never been good at memorizing math facts and her mind drifts...........

I truly believe it has something to do with her vision. The first eye doc had a prism in one lens to help her eyes focus. She had vision therapy at 7 with a specialist. The vision therapy specialist didn't think her glasses were very necessary, but told her to wear them if she felt they helped. I'm not sure vision therapy did any good. It seemed very simple for her. I don't think she needed therapy, but I didn't know what to do. That make 3 different eye docs with 3 different diagnoses?

My thoughts are-Could your dc's eyes be working very hard to see "fast" on times quizzes and then when his eyes get tired, he drifts........?

My dd at 14, in public high school, still has problems on timed tests and takes longer to do work than most kids. She is diligent, but will work, drift for a while, then focus. I'm wondering if her drifting is a natural way to let her eyes take a break?