Resources for aspiring composers?

[eternallytired]

DS8 has been passionate about the guitar since well before we finally got him lessons.  Ever since he started lessons (age 6.5), he's tried to write his own music.  He realizes, though, that he's missing information about what makes a good song.

 

Last summer we enrolled DS in a week-long guitar camp (run by the teachers from the studio where he takes lessons) which promised ensemble work, recording sessions, improvisation, and composition.  Unfortunately, we were told that he was put in a group with age peers because they were afraid he would be out of place with ability peers.  (He has progressed very quickly.)  His group spent most of their time working on a very simple ensemble song, and each kid was given the chance to record a song of their choice.  The group above his did a little more: they were given several possible parts and were told to work together to arrange a song using those different parts.  He might have enjoyed that, but I'm still not sure that would be what he's looking for. 

 

He was lamenting again today that he wishes he could learn about composing music, so I promised that I'd try to find either a) resources/camps that would help him or b) information on how old he'd be before he could access appropriate resources.  So far the only local option for his age is something like $400 for a one-week, half-day camp--and that's beyond our means.  Otherwise he has to wait until college.

 

Does anyone know of any resources on composition that would be accessible to a bright 8yo?  I'm not a music person and neither is DH, so we're clueless.

[Lori D.]

JMO: this is the type of subject area best taught by a knowledge teacher, so I think you are looking at additional lessons in composing. Since the teachers at DSs' studio teach a music camp on composing, see if you can add 2 private or semi-private lessons a month (1 every 2 weeks) at the studio that focus on composing. Also ask them to point you towards some independent resources that would work for an 8yo.

 

If that is out of your range, look at your local university's music department and see if you can hire a student to give private lessons, who has a focus on composing or does a lot of composing.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Lori D.

[Jackie]

JMO: this is the type of subject area best taught by a knowledge teacher, so I think you are looking at additional lessons in composing. Since the teachers at DSs' studio teach a music camp on composing, see if you can add 2 private or semi-private lessons a month (1 every 2 weeks) at the studio that focus on composing. Also ask them to point you towards some independent resources that would work for an 8yo.

 

If that is out of your range, look at your local university's music department and see if you can hire a student who has a focus on composing or does a lot of composing for private lessons.

Assuming his lessons are weekly, you could ask about going to every other week for guitar lessons, and every other for composing. This might make it come out even on cost.

[wintermom]

My boys are studying classical guitar (in their 4th year now), and their teacher has a component of improvisation right in their private lessons. Often it looks like a chord progression of 4 chords that the teacher plays, and the student improvises a melody in an appropriate key (they go through and play the scale of that key first so the student knows what notes are going to probably sound "good"). Then they switch so the student plays the chords while the teacher improvises. They love doing this. My ds 10 will also bring songs he's made up to the lesson and play them for the teacher. The teacher will learn it, play along, and they'll improvise together. The teacher may give suggestions about where ds could possibly go with the song.

 

Other forms of composition they've done in their group class are the teacher gives them a couple bars of the start of the song. Each student works on their own and composes a continuation of the song. Then they share their songs with each other. It's really fun for the students.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by wintermom

[idnib]

If you're in the SF Bay area, check out Crowden's John Adams Young Composers Program. Even if you're not, I would call them and ask if they know of similar programs in your area. 

 

Also check with your local symphony for programs or resources.

Edited January 7, 2017 by idnib

[eternallytired]

His instructor is doing some of what wintermom described above--pointing out chords on which a song is based, showing DS how you can play the chords along with the song or how you can improvise a song using the notes of a chord.  The problem is that lessons are only 30 minutes, and the instructor is already taking us back 5 minutes early (we're the first lesson of the day--perk of being homeschoolers!) and giving us 5 extra minutes at the end.  DS wants/needs to learn a new song every week (thrives on challenge and has almost never had trouble becoming proficient--not masterful, but decent--at a song in a week's time), so every week the teacher needs to have him play the previous week's song to check fingerings, dynamics, etc. and also introduce all the intricacies of a new song (only 2 pages, but still).  I always feel bad emailing him about anything because I hate to be a bother, but perhaps that is the best course of action.

 

We're in that awkward place where DS been pulled from his group class (about 3 mos after starting, so more than a year ago) but can't be put in with another group because his pace is apparently unusually fast.  He loved the group lessons because he delighted in playing pieces in parts as an ensemble--but he chafed at the pace of the group class.  All the ensembles offered by the studio (as well as the actual composition part of guitar camp) are for middle and high school students, so we have quite a ways to wait, and I'm not sure how to help him fill those missing pieces of his music passion--the composition and the ensemble aspect--in the mean time.  At the same time, individual lessons are 150% of the cost of group lessons and funding that is a bit of a stretch, so it's not like we can add another large, ongoing expense.

 

Off to email his instructor and check the link above.  We're not in the Bay area, sadly (well, maybe not--I couldn't afford to live there!), but I'm always open to trying to find connections.  Thanks, all!

[eternallytired]

If you're in the SF Bay area, check out Crowden's John Adams Young Composers Program. Even if you're not, I would call them and ask if they know of similar programs in your area. 

 

Also check with your local symphony for programs or resources.

 

Whoa!  That program is pretty pricey, but it looks AMAZING!  (And considering that I was looking at some summer camps this week that were $500 for five half-days, that price is really quite reasonable.)  He would absolutely be in heaven in a program like that one!  Somehow I doubt we have anything that cool around here, but it's worth a try.

[idnib]

Whoa!  That program is pretty pricey, but it looks AMAZING!  (And considering that I was looking at some summer camps this week that were $500 for five half-days, that price is really quite reasonable.)  He would absolutely be in heaven in a program like that one!  Somehow I doubt we have anything that cool around here, but it's worth a try.

 

Yes, it's pricey although they have financial aid. I don't know anyone in it, but we went to some performances there and that's how I found out they have it. I was hoping to give you an idea of what might be out there, or at least ideas to look for.

[JennSnow]

Following..I'm non music mom of a four year old who started playing piano earlier this year and loves to "compose" songs..I think I might need to provide him with more than paper, markers, and a ruler someday in the future, lol. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by JennSnow

[Jackie]

Following..I'm non music mom of a four year old who started playing piano earlier this year and loves to "compose" songs..I think I might need to provide him with more than paper, markers, and a ruler someday in the future, lol.

 

Oh, something I can actually help with in a music thread! You might find this useful: http://people.virginia.edu/~pdr4h/musicpaper/ I keep some printed out for DD to play around with.

[JennSnow]

Oh, something I can actually help with in a music thread! You might find this useful: http://people.virginia.edu/~pdr4h/musicpaper/ I keep some printed out for DD to play around with.

Thank you!  I've bookmarked this for future use :). Right now part of the fun is making the lines and music symbols on his own but I'm sure someday this will come in very useful!

[wintermom]

His instructor is doing some of what wintermom described above--pointing out chords on which a song is based, showing DS how you can play the chords along with the song or how you can improvise a song using the notes of a chord.  The problem is that lessons are only 30 minutes, and the instructor is already taking us back 5 minutes early (we're the first lesson of the day--perk of being homeschoolers!) and giving us 5 extra minutes at the end.  DS wants/needs to learn a new song every week (thrives on challenge and has almost never had trouble becoming proficient--not masterful, but decent--at a song in a week's time), so every week the teacher needs to have him play the previous week's song to check fingerings, dynamics, etc. and also introduce all the intricacies of a new song (only 2 pages, but still).  I always feel bad emailing him about anything because I hate to be a bother, but perhaps that is the best course of action.

 

We're in that awkward place where DS been pulled from his group class (about 3 mos after starting, so more than a year ago) but can't be put in with another group because his pace is apparently unusually fast.  He loved the group lessons because he delighted in playing pieces in parts as an ensemble--but he chafed at the pace of the group class.  All the ensembles offered by the studio (as well as the actual composition part of guitar camp) are for middle and high school students, so we have quite a ways to wait, and I'm not sure how to help him fill those missing pieces of his music passion--the composition and the ensemble aspect--in the mean time.  At the same time, individual lessons are 150% of the cost of group lessons and funding that is a bit of a stretch, so it's not like we can add another large, ongoing expense.

 

Off to email his instructor and check the link above.  We're not in the Bay area, sadly (well, maybe not--I couldn't afford to live there!), but I'm always open to trying to find connections.  Thanks, all!

 

That's really too bad that the school can't find some kind of group class for your son, even if he's at the top or bottom end. What about a group music theory class? He'll learn many important aspects of playing and composing music in a theory class.

 

Another option is to put the money you'd pay for a group class and invest it in extending your son's private lesson 15 min/week. Sounds like this would be really appreciated by him. 30 min goes by really fast. Sounds like he's more than ready for a longer lesson, and the teacher seems to be meeting his composing interests right in the lesson.

Edited January 7, 2017 by wintermom

[klmama]

Free resources he might find helpful:

 

 

http://www.finalemusic.com/products/finale-notepad/resources/ - Finale Notepad is free and works for writing guitar tablature; it can play back to you what you've written.  You can upgrade from Finale Notepad to Finale for $$.

 

http://www.musictheory.net/ - for learning standard musical notation and general music theory - understanding this is extremely useful for composition. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[eternallytired]

Free resources he might find helpful:

 

 

http://www.finalemusic.com/products/finale-notepad/resources/ - Finale Notepad is free and works for writing guitar tablature; it can play back to you what you've written.  You can upgrade from Finale Notepad to Finale for $$.

 

http://www.musictheory.net/ - for learning standard musical notation and general music theory - understanding this is extremely useful for composition. 

 

Very cool!  I'll let him check this out tomorrow!  Thanks!

 

[Shifra]

Composition for Young Musicians by Jennifer Wilson was partially published by the National Guitar Workshop, so it may be best for a guitar player. A similar series is Music by Me, but it is meant for piano players.

 

Schools that teach music composition use: A Young Musician's Guide to Composing by Charles W. Lauterbach & Cathy Blair, Outside the Lines by Mark Burrows, and Kids Can Compose by Nicole Legrand. All of these books may be better in a classroom situation.

[Moonhawk]

My DH is a composer.  I didn't ask for his advice on this yet, but this is generally what I've picked up with how he approaches our kids.

 

At this age, wanting to create is great! The hardest part of writing music down for this age is usually the literal writing down of it.  Little details like lining up top and bottom notes of chords, having the note stem on the correct side, how to draw the rests, are basic rules.  It's kind of like teaching handwriting again -- you want them to learn the correct way at the beginning, but know it will take time before it actually happens. So, I'd make sure he is referencing the proper rules often, knowing that it won't be correct at first but also that he is aware there is a right/wrong way. 

 

Ask your teacher -- or find books since it seems like your lesson time is used up -- to go over what the different keys are, what time signatures are, note values, etc. I am not familiar with guitar teaching/learning methods, though, so I don't know how much emphasis is put on scales, chords, key relations.  General music theory at this age usually has activities for composition so that they can directly apply the lesson to a piece.   

 

If you are more interested in just giving him an outlet, maybe let him write the music own without a meter at first, that way he doesn't have to count beats and figure out how to fit whatever he is making into tidy measures (this is something he should be working towards, though, it can become a bad habit to just ignore). Same with writing without a key signature, so long as he flats/sharps each note each time he wants it flat/sharp.  Lots of lined paper and a pencil, everything else can wait for after he writes down his tune, then he can go over it and make it match common writing.

 

Personally, while we use Sibelius/Finale on a daily basis here as adults, we haven't let the kids use any music notation software because we want them to learn how to form the notes on paper first.  This is helpful for them to learn the basic rules, instead of trusting the computer to choose the right form for them (which it can still mess up). We've seen a lot of kids entering college for composition that can't draw a treble clef or continually put the stems on the wrong side. (ETA: though, after a kid finishes a composition, we do put it into the computer so they have a finished copy.  And as an above poster said, the playback feature can be really useful for them to get immediate feedback on how their writing sounds; I can see how this would be encouraging and fun.)

 

I'm sorry all my advice is general, I hadn't realized how little actual resources (books, programs) we use for this. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by Moonhawk

[Incognito]

We have a budding composer around here too.  For now, it seems that getting a good foundation in music theory helps (for instance, if the child has their scales, triads, etc. etc. down pat, they can more easily just build a song that works).

 

Elementary Music Rudiments by Mark Sarnecki is what our teacher recommended to us (not guitar, so perhaps not a perfect fit, but it is basic theory).

 

 

[wintermom]

We have a budding composer around here too.  For now, it seems that getting a good foundation in music theory helps (for instance, if the child has their scales, triads, etc. etc. down pat, they can more easily just build a song that works).

 

Elementary Music Rudiments by Mark Sarnecki is what our teacher recommended to us (not guitar, so perhaps not a perfect fit, but it is basic theory).

 

:iagree:   We use Sarnecki here, too. All music theory is the same, no matter what instrument. The keyboard is the easiest visual foundation, as all the notes are found in the same location and only one location. And it's very easy to see the sharps and flats. 

 

There are different guitar notations that are commonly used (TAB), so if this is part of the student's leaning situation it may be an easier way to write down compositions. It's also possible to just make recordings of the compositions and skip the formal writing down altogether at this age and stage.

[Moonhawk]

:iagree:   We use Sarnecki here, too. All music theory is the same, no matter what instrument. The keyboard is the easiest visual foundation, as all the notes are found in the same location and only one location. And it's very easy to see the sharps and flats. 

 

There are different guitar notations that are commonly used (TAB), so if this is part of the student's leaning situation it may be an easier way to write down compositions. It's also possible to just make recordings of the compositions and skip the formal writing down altogether at this age and stage.

 

Oh, right!  Okay, so just recording the piece, without writing it totally a good approach at this age, too.  We actually run a transcription business, a lot of musicians never really learn how to write their own music. So at this age it is probably okay waiting on the writing (or at least it being secondary), and focus on the composing.  

[Duke Sharp]

Hi,

 

Garage Band Theory is a great resource for learning and teaching the basics of music theory. 

 

The original intent was to explain a process of playing by ear, but the only way to sensibly discuss it is to use the existing vocabulary, which is music theory.

 

Another goal was to make the information relevant and useful for all instruments. Major publishers want a parent to buy a different set of books for each instrument and when there are 3 or 4 kids the cost can be prohibitive.

 

The print edition is 595 pages, with over 400 examples, most of which are shown in standard notation as well as tablature for guitar and mandolin.

 

The eBook and Kindle contain hundreds of Wikipedia links to every one mentioned in the book, from Bach & Beethoven to Duke Ellington and the Beatles.

 

There are free supplemental downloads that will allow you to print any of the musical examples, both in Finale format and an open source notation software, as well as mp3's for nearly every musical example. http://garagebandtheory.com/

 

Rather than write a lengthy post extolling the virtues of GBT, here's a link to the customer reviews at Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Garage-Band-Theory-Tools-Pros/product-reviews/097664200X/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=avp_only_reviews&sortBy=recent

 

If you're interested in having a look, I'll make 10 copies available for a free download of either a Kindle or eBook, as well as the PDF edition.

 

Send an email via the GBT Contact page ( http://garagebandtheory.com/contact/ ) say you're from Well Trained Mind, I'll send a DropBox link.

 

Duke Sharp

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Duke Sharp