If you have a student headed for engineering, my son has a message for you...

[Nan in Mass]

My youngest is a senior in engineering school this year. He has a message about writing for other students headed for engineering school.

 

He was homeschooled (with help from our community college) grades 1-12.

 

He says the 5 paragraph essay is a major part of his life. Sometimes he expands it into a lengthy researcg paper and sometimes he contracts it. He is required to write at least one a week, sometimes more like one a day, especially when it is part of a major project. This started the first week of freshman year. He is managing a large group project this semester and since he has to assignthe various writing tasks, he has been asking everyone how long it takes them to write a 5 paragraph paper. He has noticed that those students who say it takes them more than an hour (two is a common answer) are the ones who are struggling to get through the work load.

 

So - he says that you have to make sure your student can do this before college, that if you have to spend a week doing nothing but working on cranking out a 5 paragraph paper, it is well worth it, and that they need to be able to do it in under an hour.

 

Of course, this is going to vary by university, but my son is at a polytechnic. They know that writing is not their average student's strong point.

 

Just in case this helps someone... : )

 

Nan

 

Eta - He also said he hasn't needed to do much else writing-wise.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Nan in Mass

[JoJosMom]

Thank you for this information, Nan; this is very good to know.  Please also thank your son for thinking to share this.  My congratulations to him as he nears graduation!

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh good.  That's the one thing we've been focusing a lot on this year.

 

 

[Kassia]

This is interesting because my three sons are/were all engineering majors (all went to the same university) and had to do very little writing of papers.  Still, I think being able to write is one of the most important skills needed and I agree all students need to be able to produce well-written papers.  

 

 

[Nan in Mass]

My son says his professors are always making him write papers that prove something or explain something - why he chose to use this formula instead of that one, or why he chose to use this type of plastic. Or he has to explain how something works. They are always telling him that in the work place, he will have to be able to prove his design is a good one or that he needs this much of the budget or the time or this many people. He says that is all done via that 5 paragraph formula, or bits of it.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

Oh good. That's the one thing we've been focusing a lot on this year.

I had SO much trouble teaching that sort of writing to my youngest. We spent massive amounts of time on it. He hated that 5 paragraph formula passionately. I was pretty staggered when he came home half way through his first semester freshman year saying that had saved him. He,s thanked me regularly ever since, and at Thanksgiving, with the due date for the 300 page minimum documentation packet for his group's project looming and his struggles getting others in his group to write up their parts of the project, he said to tell the board that this has been crucial.

 

We are an engineering family, so I knew to ignore all the advice floating around about how the 5 paragraph formula is too artificial to be useful and we worked hard on it, but I was still surprised by the request to post about it.

 

Nan

[SparklyUnicorn]

This is interesting because my three sons are/were all engineering majors (all went to the same university) and had to do very little writing of papers.  Still, I think being able to write is one of the most important skills needed and I agree all students need to be able to produce well-written papers.  

 

I wonder if it depends on the area of engineering?  My husband has a degree in electrical engineering and he didn't do a whole ton of writing in school.  His thesis was "the" big paper he did. 

[mirabillis]

Very helpful! We can always use more advice on what to do!

[Guest]

My engineering student son would agree. He was very very happy to find that AP Physics 1 had prepared him well for writing lab reports. He is always writing something...a proposal, a summary, a lab report, a note to a prof, a wrap up of a meeting, a poster, a presentation and essays or papers in his nonengineering classes. The only thing we missed was Roberts Rules of Order...he learned by observation, and its very handy to adapt to project meetings. When I was a student, I had a separate class called Technical Writing...he doesnt as its all embedded throughout the curriculum. Communication is very very important, and that includes written skills.

[Kassia]

I wonder if it depends on the area of engineering?  My husband has a degree in electrical engineering and he didn't do a whole ton of writing in school.  His thesis was "the" big paper he did. 

 

Maybe.  I have one electrical engineer and two computer engineers.  They all do a lot of writing, but not the standard five-paragraph essay.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe.  I have one electrical engineer and two computer engineers.  They all do a lot of writing, but not the standard five-paragraph essay.  

 

Hopefully not too much of a hijack here, but what citation style do they use? 

[Nan in Mass]

I wonder if it depends on the area of engineering? My husband has a degree in electrical engineering and he didn't do a whole ton of writing in school. His thesis was "the" big paper he did.

It is across the board at this school. My son is mechanical. I did almost none for my computer degree. I think this might be something that has changed? Maybe? Or it could be this school's hands-on/project emphasis.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

My engineering student son would agree. He was very very happy to find that AP Physics 1 had prepared him well for writing lab reports. He is always writing something...a proposal, a summary, a lab report, a note to a prof, a wrap up of a meeting, a poster, a presentation and essays or papers in his nonengineering classes. The only thing we missed was Roberts Rules of Order...he learned by observation, and its very handy to adapt to project meetings. When I was a student, I had a separate class called Technical Writing...he doesnt as its all embedded throughout the curriculum. Communication is very very important, and that includes written skills.

I thought of doing Robert's. I never got around to it and I,ve been a bit worried about it since. Youngest got a few family members to explain how to run a meeting when he started this project, and I think they covered it. I shd check. : )

[Nan in Mass]

Hopefully not too much of a hijack here, but what citation style do they use?

Hijack away. : )

I asked. Will get back to you when he answers. I suspect MLA because I think I would have heard complaints otherwise. I think he does it via his word processor and it isn,t much of a bother. He makes liberal use of the reference librarian at his library, too.

 

Nan

[SparklyUnicorn]

Hijack away. : )

I asked. Will get back to you when he answers. I suspect MLA because I think I would have heard complaints otherwise. I think he does it via his word processor and it isn,t much of a bother. He makes liberal use of the reference librarian at his library, too.

 

Nan

 

I'm placing my bets on APA.

 

LOL

 

I have a book that touches upon them all.  Would be nice to know what is typical in that field though. 

[creekland]

Maybe.  I have one electrical engineer and two computer engineers.  They all do a lot of writing, but not the standard five-paragraph essay.  

 

I only have an engineering hubby.  He writes a ton for his job (Civil), but doesn't use the standard five paragraph essay at all.  He mainly writes reports - longer stuff.

 

I think what matters is that they know how to write - quickly and effectively.  They'll learn on the job the style needed for the job.

 

My non-engineers need to know how to write too, essays to lab reports to longer papers.  Being comfortable with writing quickly helps in more ways than one.

 

And since I'm not really a lover of formal writing, I'll admit I outsourced a couple of high school years of English to our neighbor who is a 4 year college English prof and a CC DE class.   :coolgleamA:   No regrets.

[Arcadia]

I'm placing my bets on APA.

 

LOL

 

I have a book that touches upon them all.  Would be nice to know what is typical in that field though. 

 

IEEE style :lol:

 

I had Technical Writing as a compulsory class for first three years of Engineering.  The 4th/final year was the dissertation anyway. We were taught MLA style as well.

 

 

The only thing we missed was Roberts Rules of Order...he learned by observation, and its very handy to adapt to project meetings. When I was a student, I had a separate class called Technical Writing...he doesnt as its all embedded throughout the curriculum. Communication is very very important, and that includes written skills.

 

Any book recommendation on how to write minutes of meetings?  I am not proficient at minutes writing and neither are my husband and his colleagues. It was more painful than writing a stack of tender documents. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Arcadia

[Nan in Mass]

I'm placing my bets on APA.

 

LOL

 

I have a book that touches upon them all. Would be nice to know what is typical in that field though.

He says - it depends on the source and the audience. Typically I try to compress "how to find the same source I did" into the fewest lines possible, unless mla or apa is specified. MLA for work.

 

Nan

[Nan in Mass]

IEEE style :lol:

 

I had Technical Writing as a compulsory class for first three years of Engineering. The 4th/final year was the dissertation anyway. We were taught MLA style as well.

 

 

 

Any book recommendation on how to write minutes of meetings? I am not proficient at minutes writing and neither are my husband and his colleagues. It was more painful than writing a stack of tender documents.

Ok,that is very funny. Here we are, spending years trying to convince our young engineers that they won,t die if they have to write a paragraph, and then they grow up and invent a citation style. Haha.

 

(Although that is actually pretty typical. "This is so illogical. Why don't you do it like this. There. See? Much more efficient." I bet it is a better system lol.

 

Nan

[Grantmom]

Ok,that is very funny. Here we are, spending years trying to convince our young engineers that they won,t die if they have to write a paragraph, and then they grow up and invent a citation style. Haha.

 

(Although that is actually pretty typical. "This is so illogical. Why don't you do it like this. There. See? Much more efficient." I bet it is a better system lol.

 

Nan

 

LOL!  So funny!!

[SparklyUnicorn]

IEEE style :lol:

 

I had Technical Writing as a compulsory class for first three years of Engineering.  The 4th/final year was the dissertation anyway. We were taught MLA style as well.

 

 

 

Well then my son might just be on his own for that one!

I told him there are various styles.  I showed him a few.  I said in the end they aren't crazy different really.  AND they change their rules from time to time.  Just get a guide and follow it.

[creekland]

Well then my son might just be on his own for that one!

I told him there are various styles.  I showed him a few.  I said in the end they aren't crazy different really.  AND they change their rules from time to time.  Just get a guide and follow it.

 

My guys tell me their profs have their own preferences for which style they like.  

 

Middle son specifically told me (when my school asked) that it doesn't matter which style a student learns as long as they learn how to do it officially and learn to go by the style a particular prof wants (rather than insisting one way is correct).  If writing outside of college, most organizations also have their preferred style.

[Guest]

Any book recommendation on how to write minutes of meetings? I am not proficient at minutes writing and neither are my husband and his colleagues. It was more painful than writing a stack of tender documents.

I learned in 4H myself, and probably had some instruction in a workshop when I was first in the workforce. These tips are helpful:

http://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/2006/01/tips_for_writin.html

 

http://www.businesswritingblog.com/business_writing/meeting-notes-and-minutes/

Edited December 7, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[Mrs.W]

Interesting! When my daughter, who loves reading and writing, looked at engineering schools one her questions to students was did they get to do any writing and the response was always a gleeful NO. It wasn't the deciding factor but was one of the reasons she decided not to go into engineering. It all worked out for the best (she decided on architecture and loves it), but I guess we shouldn't have assumed all engineering programs are the same.

[Nan in Mass]

Interesting! When my daughter, who loves reading and writing, looked at engineering schools one her questions to students was did they get to do any writing and the response was always a gleeful NO. It wasn't the deciding factor but was one of the reasons she decided not to go into engineering. It all worked out for the best (she decided on architecture and loves it), but I guess we shouldn't have assumed all engineering programs are the same.

They aren't. : ) Among other things, the amount of theory versus hands on varies, and the amount of equipment the students get to play with. But that answer might also have been because simple technical writing when they had something to say didn,t feel like Writing with a capital W to the students.

 

Nan

Edited December 8, 2016 by Nan in Mass

[aprilleigh]

I wonder if it depends on the area of engineering?  My husband has a degree in electrical engineering and he didn't do a whole ton of writing in school.  His thesis was "the" big paper he did. 

 

Same here - as a BSEE he did very little writing outside the required English classes.

[Nan in Mass]

Same here - as a BSEE he did very little writing outside the required English classes.

 

All the writing might be part of this particular school's emphasis on preparing students for the workplace. The school appears to have a number of policies in place to do that.  It also is a small school.  That probably allows the prof's and TA's to assign more writing.  My son says he has to justify everything he does, not just submit the answer to the problem.  That requires a fair amount of writing and explains why the 5 paragraph formula, contracted or expanded to fit the purpose, works for most of the writing.  The writing doesn't need to be interesting or entertainin - it just needs to explain clearly. (He also says that many of his assignments are open book, which also might help explain the amount of writing required.)

 

Nan 

[Heathermomster]

DH and I are both BSEEs and we cranked out one formal lab weekly for each engineering junior/senior class that we took plus our senior design. There was a title page, toc, abstract, report, diagrams, citations, and extras in the back of the reports. As an engineering manager in the defense/aerospace industry, DS writes all the time for reports and ppt presentations. I did the same when I worked prior to coming home.

[Mom22ns]

Hopefully not too much of a hijack here, but what citation style do they use? 

 

I tutor college writing on tutor.com. I will tell you that 80% of the papers I read are APA, <20% MLA, and about 1-2% Chicago. This isn't specific to engineering majors, but I get every major, including computers and engineering. Typically I only get MLA from English classes. All others use APA.  I recommend all kids learn APA, and at least do one paper in MLA just so they are prepared.

[Kassia]

I tutor college writing on tutor.com. I will tell you that 80% of the papers I read are APA, <20% MLA, and about 1-2% Chicago. This isn't specific to engineering majors, but I get every major, including computers and engineering. Typically I only get MLA from English classes. All others use APA.  I recommend all kids learn APA, and at least do one paper in MLA just so they are prepared.

 

Thank you!  We always use MLA and I will make sure my dd is exposed to APA as well.