Info from Killgallons on how to use their materials **Update, more info post #4

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I decided to write directly to Don Killgallon to try to learn a bit more about how to use the Sentence Composing, Paragraph Composing, Non-fiction for x-schoolers, etc books.  Here are his responses, in case it may be helpful to others!

 

 

 

Hi, Monica, and thanks for writing. We are so happy that home-schoolers use our books.

 

Please see our responses to your questions in blue below.

 

Best wishes for a rest of summer to all the home-schoolers.

 

Don and Jenny Killgallon

 

____________________________

On Aug 2, 2016, at 12:42 PM, Monica Borel <[email protected]<script data-cfhash='f9e31' type="text/javascript">/* */</script>> wrote:

Dear Mr. And Mrs. Killgallon,

I hope you don’t mind me writing to you directly; I was unable to find this information online!

 

We don't mind at all, Monica.  We love hearing from users of our books, and respond to every inquiry as soon as possible.

I am a homeschooler, and am interested in using your materials.  I have already used Story Grammar with good results.  

My questions are:  How would you recommend moving through the other books in your series?

 

After Story Grammar, next is Paragraphs for Elementary School, then Nonfiction for Elementary School.  

 

 

  Are some of them redundant?  

 

Although there is some overlap, it's not excessive, but actually beneficial in reinforcing skills previously learned.

 

 

Could these be used as a full composition course, or do you see them more as working on a specific skill set to enhance another composition program?

 

The paragraph and nonfiction books could be complete composition programs , as they apply the sentence tools to longer pieces of writing while addressing the stages of the writing process Longer writing assignments are found in the applications at the end of major sections, called in the work texts "YOUR TURN." There, students demonstrate independent mastery of earlier sentence-building skills by using them in a piece of writing, taken through pre-writing, drafting, writing, revisions, publishing--all or some of those stages of the writing process.

There are a number of homeschoolers interested in answers to these questions, so if you don’t mind and have the time to respond, I will post your answer in the Well-Trained Mind forum.

 

We would love you to post them there.  We're familiar with the "Well-Trained Mind" website, a wonderful coalition of dedicated parent-teachers providing excellence in education for their children through sharing--and especially through caring.  

 

You might want to post our website for those who want more information about our approach, including how it began in 1963 when I was a struggling first-year English teacher, looking desperately for something that "worked."  Nothing I did seemed to.

 

Experimenting with how good writers build their sentences, l discovered what I was looking for: the sentence-composing approach to writing improvement, now in classrooms (schools and homes) all over.

 

HERE'S THE WEBSITE: http://userpages.umbc.edu/~killgall/

 

Don (and Jenny) Killgallon

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Monica_in_Switzerland

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Weird, not all of the blue formatting came through.... anyway, it should be obvious what is written by me and what is written by Don.  

[silver]

Thanks for sharing!

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have one more question:  For all three levels (elementary, middle, and high school), do you recommend proceeding in the same way - grammar —> sentence —> paragraph —> non fiction? 

 

ALMOST, BUT THIS IS SLIGHTLY BETTTER: sentence then grammar than paragraph than nonfiction. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

One last update because I can't help myself.  LOL.  

 

I enjoyed Barry’s story.  I think we spend a significant portion of time trying to figure out the best way to present math concepts to students, but assume good writing is an innate skill that a student either has or doesn’t.  I think your sentence composing through imitation is a sort of distillation of classic education methods like copywork and narration into a more concentrated and less time-consuming form.  As a mom of four, I appreciate the efficiency!  

 

I meant to say this last time, but didn't.  Your following comment is so insightful about how and why our sentence-composing approach works: 

 

"I think your sentence composing through imitation is a sort of distillation of classic education methods like copywork and narration into a more concentrated and less time-consuming form."

 

Your comment is brilliantly, succinctly stated--an accurate distillation of the sentence-composing approach.

 

Thanks for sharing it, Monica. 

 

Don Killgallon

 

 

Sorry, but when a sentence-professor tells you that you wrote a good sentence... well... you've gotta pass that along.  :-D

[domestic_engineer]

One last update because I can't help myself.  LOL.  

 

Sorry, but when a sentence-professor tells you that you wrote a good sentence... well... you've gotta pass that along.  :-D

AWESOME!!!  Well done for creating such a wonderful sentence!!!  :D

Thanks for writing them and for sharing your information; it's quite helpful!

[Tiramisu]

I was just thinking I needed clarification on the order. Thanks, Monica! Great sentence, too!

[domestic_engineer]

 

I have one more question: For all three levels (elementary, middle, and high school), do you recommend proceeding in the same way - grammar —> sentence —> paragraph —> non fiction?

ALMOST, BUT THIS IS SLIGHTLY BETTTER: sentence then grammar than paragraph than nonfiction.

 

Is there a Nonfiction book for elementary? If so, can you help me find it please?

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Is there a Nonfiction book for elementary? If so, can you help me find it please?

No, I think that was an error on both our parts as we moved from speaking generally to speaking specifically. If you go to the website he links in my first post, you can then click on materials and see a full list of the books in the series.

[domestic_engineer]

No, I think that was an error on both our parts as we moved from speaking generally to speaking specifically. If you go to the website he links in my first post, you can then click on materials and see a full list of the books in the series.

Ok. I understand. I haven't investigated the higher levels yet, so I was excited to learn that there was a nonfiction book at the higher levels.

[luuknam]

Is there a Nonfiction book for elementary? If so, can you help me find it please?

 

 

Now there is:

 

http://www.heinemann.com/products/E08112.aspx

 

(I know this thread is a little old, but I figured bumping it wouldn't hurt, as the order in which to do the books is a little confusing)

[domestic_engineer]

Now there is:

 

http://www.heinemann.com/products/E08112.aspx

 

(I know this thread is a little old, but I figured bumping it wouldn't hurt, as the order in which to do the books is a little confusing)

Thanks for the update!  I wouldn't have thought to check the website again.

[underthebridge]

Thank you for posting this! I am currently reading Judith Hochman’s Writing Revolution, and her emphasis on sentence composition seems very much aligned with the Killgallon materials. I would love to hear more about anyone’s experience with Killgallon.

The Writing Revolution instructs you to include writing in every area of study. Although it provides examples, it is up to you to construct the exercises. As an afterschooler, we have limited time, so I have assigned just one sentence composition activity every day that rotates among DD9’s subjects. Even composing just one daily activity is time consuming! It would be wonderful to have a ready to go resource. 

[underthebridge]

In case anyone else is interested, I found this thread of old that discusses Killlgallon.

 

[LauraBeth475]

I’m tempted to do Killgallon with my fifth grader next year, but I also want to do a fair amount of outlining and writing across the curriculum.  ? 

How many lessons are in the sentence composing book?  And would you use Elementary or Middle School level for a fifth grader who likes to write but hasn’t had formal instruction beyond narrating?

[Miss Tick]

I would compare Sentence Composing for Elementary with Grammar for Middle because those two books use the grammatical terminology (adverbs, adjectives, clauses, phrases). The Sentence Composing for Middle School book relies more heavily on immigration and intuitive sentence chunking.

Sentence Composing for Elementary has 7 lesson topics with 7 practice exercises and 2 summary exercises each. We spent about three "days" on each lesson doing the vast majority orally.

Grammar for Middle School introduces 14 "sentence composing tools" (almost the same as the Sent Comp for Elem book covers) with a few practices and a creative writing assignment for each.

I went with elementary because I was comfortable handing over the books if anybody wanted more of the story. The Middle School book(s) ate for slightly more mature audiences and I didn't need that complication at the time. 

[LauraBeth475]

47 minutes ago, SusanC said:

I would compare Sentence Composing for Elementary with Grammar for Middle because those two books use the grammatical terminology (adverbs, adjectives, clauses, phrases). The Sentence Composing for Middle School book relies more heavily on immigration and intuitive sentence chunking.

Sentence Composing for Elementary has 7 lesson topics with 7 practice exercises and 2 summary exercises each. We spent about three "days" on each lesson doing the vast majority orally.

Grammar for Middle School introduces 14 "sentence composing tools" (almost the same as the Sent Comp for Elem book covers) with a few practices and a creative writing assignment for each.

I went with elementary because I was comfortable handing over the books if anybody wanted more of the story. The Middle School book(s) ate for slightly more mature audiences and I didn't need that complication at the time. 

That sounds like a reasonable time commitment.

 

Okay, so would you do Sentence Composing for Elementary and then skip to the Grammar for Middle School book without doing Sentence Composing for Middle School?

[Carrie12345]

Just wanted to say thanks for reviving this thread.  I've been using Sentence and Paragraph titles for years, and somehow had no clue about Story and Non-fiction titles!  :::off to Amazon:::, lol.

[Miss Tick]

10 hours ago, LauraBeth475 said:

 

Okay, so would you do Sentence Composing for Elementary and then skip to the Grammar for Middle School book without doing Sentence Composing for Middle School?

I would do Sentence Composing for Elementary and see how it goes. It was a nice reinforcement for Grammar we did elsewhere. I feel like it packs more teaching into the book by including brief discussion of grammar topics. However, if you find yourselves really wanting to focus on sentence variety, the grammar might be a distraction. Also, doing it orally like we do, the books move quickly, so going through all three over a couple of years (mostly just on Fridays here) ed easily done. Lastly, I will say that seeing the grammar topics again in another book was not too repetitive for us.