New Yorkers...What does your district allow for integration?

[sweetpea3829]

Cross-posting...

 

I'm meeting with our superintendent next week to discuss homeschooler integration within our distinct.

 

I'm hoping to advocate for our district to allow as much integration as is allowable under state regulations. So for example, AP classes, art, music, band, etc. But not sports, as that's not allowed per the State's Interscholastic rules.

 

So before I head in with him, I'd like to know what other districts in NY allow or don't allow.

 

Please comment with your district (or other ones that you know of), and what they allow/don't allow.

 

Thanks!

[madteaparty]

It varies quite a bit. My local district did not permit my child to participate in a current extracurricular, even though the person running it was enthusiastic about having DS participate. I could have spent some energy fighting this, but I am moving instead.

The district i am moving to apparently permits HS to participate in strictly extracurricular events. That was a nice surprise but I've yet to test it.

[Hilltopmom]

Some here allow AP classes, DE classes, and extracurriculars after school (like drama club).

 

Art, music, band they don't allow as those are "classes" not extracurriculars.

 

No interscholastic sports, but intramural are ok, if your school has those (ours do not).

 

We are invited to attend county wide spelling bees, poetry competitions, science fairs, & things like that (not run by districts).

 

Lots of things take place at the public schools but are not run by the schools, so those are all open to us too (scouts, sports clubs such as elementary school wrestling or basketball)

 

We are North Country upstate (North of the Adirondacks, south of Canada)- lots of small rural districts here, but they mostly all follow the same pattern of above.

Edited July 5, 2016 by Hilltopmom

[sweetpea3829]

It varies quite a bit. My local district did not permit my child to participate in a current extracurricular, even though the person running it was enthusiastic about having DS participate. I could have spent some energy fighting this, but I am moving instead.

The district i am moving to apparently permits HS to participate in strictly extracurricular events. That was a nice surprise but I've yet to test it.

Would you mind giving some examples of what they allow in terms of extracurriculars, and which district?

 

When I present to our school board, I'd like to have specific examples of who's allowing what and under what terms to show our Board that it can be done successfully and is being done successfully in xyz districts.

[Hilltopmom]

Oh, wanted to add, if your child is in elementary school, sports should be open to them. It's high school "interscholastic" league sports that are not.

 

Intramural or rec league sports are allowed, often held at elementary schools, sometimes run by the town or the school.

[sweetpea3829]

Some here allow AP classes, DE classes, and extracurriculars after school (like drama club).

 

Art, music, band they don't allow as those are "classes" not extracurriculars.

 

No interscholastic sports, but intramural are ok, if your school has those (ours do not).

 

We are invited to attend county wide spelling bees, poetry competitions, science fairs, & things like that (not run by districts).

 

Lots of things take place at the public schools but are not run by the schools, so those are all open to us too (scouts, sports clubs such as elementary school wrestling or basketball)

 

We are North Country upstate (North of the Adirondacks, south of Canada)- lots of small rural districts here, but they mostly all follow the same pattern of above.

 

I would be THRILLED if they would allow us to do AP classes. If that's all I get from this, than I would consider that a win. My eldest boy is on track for Trig in 9th grade. AP calc is a very real probability for him.

 

Music/band/art would be nice. We are Fingerlakes...too far from any of the cities to have any kind of opportunities.

 

But AP, yeah...that would make my day.

[luuknam]

I would be THRILLED if they would allow us to do AP classes. If that's all I get from this, than I would consider that a win. My eldest boy is on track for Trig in 9th grade. AP calc is a very real probability for him.

 

Any specific reason? I thought there was some way you could take the AP exam as a homeschooler without actually attending an AP class at school, but I could be wrong. However, you definitely can take the Calculus CLEP exam without taking a class:

 

https://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/calculus

 

(I don't have a clue what my district allows or doesn't allow, but taking my kid to therapy at the local public school twice a week (at least three times a week this coming year) is annoying enough to my schedule - I don't want to take him to other things/classes on their schedule)

[sweetpea3829]

Any specific reason? I thought there was some way you could take the AP exam as a homeschooler without actually attending an AP class at school, but I could be wrong. However, you definitely can take the Calculus CLEP exam without taking a class:

 

https://clep.collegeboard.org/exam/calculus

 

(I don't have a clue what my district allows or doesn't allow, but taking my kid to therapy at the local public school twice a week (at least three times a week this coming year) is annoying enough to my schedule - I don't want to take him to other things/classes on their schedule)

I'd like him to have the classroom experience, too. Before he leaves home for college and/or other endeavors.

[redsquirrel]

I would be THRILLED if they would allow us to do AP classes. If that's all I get from this, than I would consider that a win. My eldest boy is on track for Trig in 9th grade. AP calc is a very real probability for him.

 

Music/band/art would be nice. We are Fingerlakes...too far from any of the cities to have any kind of opportunities.

 

But AP, yeah...that would make my day.

 

I'm in the finger lakes, but I already posted to the other thread. My district does not permit it and has taken explicit steps to prevent it.

 

There are ways to take an AP class that doesn't involve going to the public school for the class. Pennsylvania homeschoolers does online AP classes.

Edited July 5, 2016 by redsquirrel

[mschickie]

I do not know of any districts in my area allow homeschoolers to participate in extracurricular.  On district does allow homeschoolers to take some AP course I think via skype but that is about it.  I did not realize that any districts in the state let kids participate in some of the extracurricular activities.  I know that per state regs to participate in interscholastic sports kids have to be enrolled in the district.  Not sure how they would get around this with homeschoolers.

[Hilltopmom]

Our actual district does not even offer APs, just DE at the high school, but my child is just going to DE at the CC instead.

 

The parents I know who have had a kiddo do AP or DE at the high school have had mixed experiences. Block scheduling & other issues have been the biggest logistical problem.

 

If your child is likely to be advanced, there are other options for upper level classes (CC, 4 yr state school, online, etc)

 

Private high schools also may be more open to you paying to take just one class there.

[redsquirrel]

I do not know of any districts in my area allow homeschoolers to participate in extracurricular.  On district does allow homeschoolers to take some AP course I think via skype but that is about it.  I did not realize that any districts in the state let kids participate in some of the extracurricular activities.  I know that per state regs to participate in interscholastic sports kids have to be enrolled in the district.  Not sure how they would get around this with homeschoolers.

 

A lot of this has to do with insurance.  I ran into this when my son needed speech therapy, among other therapies, from our district.  Some therapy groups are 'inclusive' meaning that the therapist can pull kids who don't need therapy into the group.  It includes kids who don't have IEPs. That is often done for kids, like my son, who are academically on or above level. The therapist might pull a group of kids who are of similar academic abilities, some who need therapy and some who don't and run an activity. It is generally coordinated with the classroom teacher to make the activity academically relevant to the students.  

 

And 'exclusive' group is a therapy group that is only students who have IEPs.  It is generally made of students with higher needs, and occasionally with behavior problems. That group excludes anyone without an IEP. Those groups generally meet outside the classroom in a dedicated space.

 

When my son got his first IEP the therapist said he should be in an inclusive group. She would bring him into the classroom (this was kindergarten) and let him participate in an activity while providing speech therapy.  I should add that our elementary schools have SLPs incorporated into the K-2 grades. They are in the classrooms for all the kids.  They work with the teachers.

 

I was called by someone from the district and told that because my son wasn't enrolled in the school he was not permitted to go into a classroom. Their insurance didn't permit his presence with other enrolled children in a classroom space. So, he had to be switched to an exclusive therapy group.  That group had to meet outside the classroom in the office of the speech therapist. That went sort of ok until my son had an emotional breakdown in front of the therapist because he just couldn't stand being in a group of kids with behaviour problems. She was very, very supportive and amended his IEP and put him in private therapy. He went from three group sessions a week to two private, but it was so much better for him.

 

And I know that there is some confusion because the exclusive group does include enrolled kids. It doesn't make perfect sense. But, OTOH, the law says the school must offer services to homeschool students. OTOH, their insurance says they can't be in the classrooms. So, they allow the therapy to happen because they must, but not in a classroom.

 

So, I know this is largely not relevant but it is why a lot of districts don't allow non-enrolled kids in the classroom. Or, at least it is the answer they can fall back on.  It is my understanding that when it comes to activities such as band and sports it is up to the principal of the individual school. 

[sweetpea3829]

A lot of this has to do with insurance. I ran into this when my son needed speech therapy, among other therapies, from our district. Some therapy groups are 'inclusive' meaning that the therapist can pull kids who don't need therapy into the group. It includes kids who don't have IEPs. That is often done for kids, like my son, who are academically on or above level. The therapist might pull a group of kids who are of similar academic abilities, some who need therapy and some who don't and run an activity. It is generally coordinated with the classroom teacher to make the activity academically relevant to the students.

 

And 'exclusive' group is a therapy group that is only students who have IEPs. It is generally made of students with higher needs, and occasionally with behavior problems. That group excludes anyone without an IEP. Those groups generally meet outside the classroom in a dedicated space.

 

When my son got his first IEP the therapist said he should be in an inclusive group. She would bring him into the classroom (this was kindergarten) and let him participate in an activity while providing speech therapy. I should add that our elementary schools have SLPs incorporated into the K-2 grades. They are in the classrooms for all the kids. They work with the teachers.

 

I was called by someone from the district and told that because my son wasn't enrolled in the school he was not permitted to go into a classroom. Their insurance didn't permit his presence with other enrolled children in a classroom space. So, he had to be switched to an exclusive therapy group. That group had to meet outside the classroom in the office of the speech therapist. That went sort of ok until my son had an emotional breakdown in front of the therapist because he just couldn't stand being in a group of kids with behaviour problems. She was very, very supportive and amended his IEP and put him in private therapy. He went from three group sessions a week to two private, but it was so much better for him.

 

And I know that there is some confusion because the exclusive group does include enrolled kids. It doesn't make perfect sense. But, OTOH, the law says the school must offer services to homeschool students. OTOH, their insurance says they can't be in the classrooms. So, they allow the therapy to happen because they must, but not in a classroom.

 

So, I know this is largely not relevant but it is why a lot of districts don't allow non-enrolled kids in the classroom. Or, at least it is the answer they can fall back on. It is my understanding that when it comes to activities such as band and sports it is up to the principal of the individual school.

 

I thought about this...the insurance issue. That's one of the things I'm wondering how other districts handle. Marcus Whitman, for example, supposedly allows homeschoolers on their swim team. How does that work?

 

They are a neighboring district...the temptation to move is strong.

[sweetpea3829]

When I go before the Board (assuming it's feasible to do so), I would like to have answers and solutions for any and all problems they present.

 

Evidence of those solutions working well bolster my argument, lol.

[sweetpea3829]

When I go before the Board (assuming it's feasible to do so), I would like to have answers and solutions for any and all problems they present.

 

Evidence of those solutions working well bolster my argument, lol.

[Alessandra]

Does your district have a good website? If so, you may find a section with Board policies. It can be tedious to go through these, but you may find some answers there that could bolster your arguments.

[redsquirrel]

I thought about this...the insurance issue. That's one of the things I'm wondering how other districts handle. Marcus Whitman, for example, supposedly allows homeschoolers on their swim team. How does that work?

 

They are a neighboring district...the temptation to move is strong.

 

Sports are different than classroom time. Plus, sports don't earn academic credit. In my school district classes like art, music, band, theater, etc are integrated into the school day and earn credit. I am pretty sure than NYS ed law prevents non-public school students from participating in classes that earn credit. It's too close to part time enrollment. However, I think if  you ask they have to give you the text books...if you can prove they have 'extras' to spare, so good luck with that lol. But you don't get the teacher's book or access to assignments etc. It's literally just the textbooks.

 

However, some districts allow private, charter, and by extension homeschool kids to participate in extra curricular activities. Homeschool kids are in the same category as private school students in the eyes of NY state ed law. That was actually hammered out in a court case about 6 years ago.

 

So, the state law says that private and charter and homeschool kids MUST receive special ed services so they do.  The school district pays for a SLP to be stationed at the private Montessori school three mornings a week. She sees all the kids there with SLT on their IEP. There is a private catholic school right next door to my neighborhood public elementary school. The private school has an aid whose entire job is to gather kids for their speech therapy or OT and walk them next door to the public school for therapy. Then she hustles back to get the next group.

 

But it is different with sports. Then it is up to the principal or district.  So, up until about... 8? years ago... our local school district allowed kids enrolled in the alternative school (it's technically a public school but enrollment is by lottery, it has it's own rules etc) to participate on the public high school sports teams. The alternative school doesn't field its own teams and is very small. It doesn't have the budget for sports teams. So, the handful of students at the alternative school who wanted to play soccer etc could play with the high school team. We didn't have any private or charter high schools at the time. I am told that there might have been one or two homeschool kids who played on a team, but I can't find out for sure.

 

But then, about 8 years ago, we got a charter school. There was a big blowback against it. One of the ways the district could punish the students who attend the charter school is that they created a policy stating that no students who attend private or charter or alternative schools could play on the high school sports teams or participate any extra curricular activities. They had that power and they made that decision.  The goal was to keep kids who left the public high school for the charter school from playing on the high school sports teams, but because NY state ed law explicitly folds private, charter and homeschool kids into the same category it effected all of them.

 

So find out if the district is allowing private school kids to play on the sports teams. Even in small districts there are often very small, usually religious, private schools. Every now and then one of their kids will want to play on a sports team. If the district has allowed it, then they cannot exclude homeschool kids as a catagory. However, be prepared to hear that the district decides on a 'case by case' basis...meaning they want to give themselves leeway based on how well the kid plays.

Edited July 5, 2016 by redsquirrel

[Hilltopmom]

It may be in intramural swim team, not interscholastic. Intramural is allowed for homeschoolers.

 

Or it may be a town swim team that just meets at the school.

 

I would not move just for that, as a new super can come in any time (frequent turnover rate around here) & change all the policies.

[kirstenhill]

Not from New York, but the insurance thing sounds like such a "convenient excuse". Plenty of other states allow partial enrollment or participation in individual classes or extracurriculars and have found ways to work that into whatever insurance coverage they need. Probably the same large insurance companies are insuring districts around the country and they just get policies written for whatever the situation is in each state.

 

Good luck, OP. Sounds like a tough but worthwhile battle to fight.