Does Bill Ayers have an agenda for the public schools?

[fractalgal]

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html

 

This article is disturbing if it is accurate.

[abreakfromlife]

Rush Limbaugh was just reading something very similar to that - talking about things Ayers had said 2 years ago in Venezuala, praising Chavez and the socialist, revolutionary type of education system they have there.

[Jugglin'5]

I don't know, but here is another article from City Journal about one of Ayers' intended victims, Bill Murtagh (who was 9 at the time).

 

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0430jm.html

[Michelle in MO]

(which I believe it is), it clearly shows that Ayers is completely unrepentent regarding his former terrorist activities. Now he's just using the public schools and other organizations as his political platform.

 

My only disagreement with the article is that it's hard to believe that Obama was not aware of Mr. Ayers' background.

[Kelli in TN]

I had never heard of him until recently.

 

What is wrong with our country when someone like him gets to have a say in anything of importance? Why would ANYONE be listening to him or taking him seriously?

 

See, we need to say to him "Shoo, get back over there." Wherever there is.

 

I just never understand when nutcases like Ayers get close enough to people in power to whisper in their ears.

[fractalgal]

(which I believe it is), it clearly shows that Ayers is completely unrepentent regarding his former terrorist activities. Now he's just using the public schools and other organizations as his political platform.

 

My only disagreement with the article is that it's hard to believe that Obama was not aware of Mr. Ayers' background.

 

Public schools should be places to go to learn reading, mathematics, writing, etc, not avenues for political indoctrination by a former (and proud, unrepentent) terrorist.

 

Also, how many of Ayers philosophies does Obama share?

 

This is a legitimate question to be asking of someone who wants to lead this country and who will hold enormous power.

[LisaKinVA]

Forgive me for being overly dramatic here -- but I have this picture in my head playing with Obama and his associations -- raising his hands and waving them wildly repeadedly saying, "I didn't know Ayers was like that, even though I funnelled money to his school initiatives, and the description of what was going to be done with the money was available for anyone who was interested -- I didn't know Rezko was dirty -- I didn't know the pastor I loved for 20 years preached against the country and the constitution/governemnt I've sworn to serve. I didn't know, when I was working with them, that ACORN was faking voter registrations."

 

Makes one wonder, if these things were never pointed out, WHEN he would have realized it?:confused:

 

My teeth hurt. I'm hungry, hormonal and not sleeping.

[Jugglin'5]

One question I have is - what would people say if McCain or Palin had started their political career with, served on boards with, and generally been friendly with, say, Timothy McVeigh? This truly mystifies me. And I'm not voting for them - (the bailout thing soured me on McCain).

[Jugglin'5]

I didn't know, when I was working with them, that ACORN was faking voter registrations."

 

Community organizing, dontcha know.;)

[Gailmegan]

This connection with Ayers is killing me. The board on which both Ayers and Obama served was an educational foundation run by Annenberg. You know, the right-wing Republican whose daughter now runs the Annenberg foundation and is a major contributor of McCain's. If Obama is guilty by association then Annenberg is even more so.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Gailmegan
typo

[lovemyboys]

This connection with Ayers is killing me. The board on which both Ayers and Obama served was an educational foundation run by Annenberg. You know, the right-wing Republican whose daughter now runs the Annenberg foundation and is a major contributor of McCain's. If Obama is guilty by association then Annenberg is even more so.

 

The grant was made by the Annenberg foundation to the Ayers organization. I don't believe they had any control or direction of the money or how it was distributed after it was granted. Isn't Annenberg deceased?

[elizabeth]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2008/10/mccain_link_to_private_group_i.php

[Mama Lynx]

One question I have is - what would people say if McCain or Palin had started their political career with' date=' served on boards with, and generally been friendly with, say, Timothy McVeigh? This truly mystifies me. And I'm not voting for them - (the bailout thing soured me on McCain).[/quote']

 

Timothy McVeigh is not really a good example, mainly because he's dead. One past association I could write off as the misjudgment of youth, or just circumstance. In other words, a "Yes, I was friends with McVeigh, but had no idea about what he was going to do, do not condone it, and now he's dead ..." I could swallow it. If further proof came to light that in fact McCain or Palin had been best buds with McVeigh and had attended Terrorist Anonymous meetings together, well, no, that would be a deal-breaker.

 

But continued association with a series of individuals who have a particular mindset, well, yes, that's a problem. If John McCain or Sarah Palin prove to have a history of repeated friendships with people whose dearly-held views are those that I consider harmful and not what I want for America, then you bet, they'd never have my vote. Ever. EVER. I'd consider them to be potentially dangerous; at the very least, it would be clear that we did not share ideologies, and it makes sense for me to vote with people who share my ideologies, at least to some degree, yes?

 

As for an agenda... you can look at Mr. Ayers' own site (at least, as far as I can tell, it's legit). This link is to downloads of the syllabi he uses in his classes for teaching teachers. You can read and judge for yourself.

[lovemyboys]

Forgive me for being overly dramatic here -- but I have this picture in my head playing with Obama and his associations -- raising his hands and waving them wildly repeadedly saying, "I didn't know Ayers was like that, even though I funnelled money to his school initiatives, and the description of what was going to be done with the money was available for anyone who was interested -- I didn't know Rezko was dirty -- I didn't know the pastor I loved for 20 years preached against the country and the constitution/governemnt I've sworn to serve. I didn't know, when I was working with them, that ACORN was faking voter registrations."

 

Makes one wonder, if these things were never pointed out, WHEN he would have realized it?:confused:

 

My teeth hurt. I'm hungry, hormonal and not sleeping.

 

Don't depress me.

 

I know alot of this was raised during the primaries with a full field of candidates so it didn't get a lot of scrutiny (real scrutiny). But isn't anyone curious or concerned about any of these character issues? That's what it seems to go to. People raise Keating5 as a counterattack on McCain, but his response was to work on reform. In these cases, Obama seems to be pleading ignorance or innocence or dissociation and figure no one will follow it. Voter fraud, don't get me started.

 

The ends don't justify the means.

[elizabeth]

Lest anyone think I did not read the article attached I have read it. It stands to reason that guilt by association is not a particularly enlightened approach if one wants to find the truth...at least the article I posted was fom the AP and not some neoconservative think tank posing as a news organization.

[Sandy in Indy]

I think Bill Ayers has an agenda for our country, not just public education. I think he put things in motion a long time ago when he gave Obama's political coming out party. There's alot more there than a casual connection (or so it seems to me).

[Sandy in Indy]

Why was Ayers never charged with a crime? Why did the local, state, and federal gov't choose to ignore him? Why has no one tried to indict him on anything in all these years?

 

The charges were dropped because of illegal wiretapping and something else (that I don't remember--prosecutor problem, I think).

[lovemyboys]

But continued association with a series of individuals who have a particular mindset, well, yes, that's a problem. If John McCain or Sarah Palin prove to have a history of repeated friendships with people whose dearly-held views are those that I consider harmful and not what I want for America, then you bet, they'd never have my vote. Ever. EVER. I'd consider them to be potentially dangerous; at the very least, it would be clear that we did not share ideologies, and it makes sense for me to vote with people who share my ideologies, at least to some degree, yes?

 

As for an agenda... you can look at Mr. Ayers' own site (at least, as far as I can tell, it's legit). This link is to downloads of the syllabi he uses in his classes for teaching teachers. You can read and judge for yourself.

 

:iagree: That's what I don't understand. There is a history of close association with people who denounce our country, our ideologies, our government. Why doesn't that concern people? Why does everyone give that a pass because he reads a good speech and has a disarming smile?

[Jugglin'5]

Well, you're right. I should've picked someone who had already blown things up, gotten away with it, and likes to crow about it.:001_huh: What if Sarah P. liked to pal around with Mr. Rudolph of abortion clinic bombing fame, after he had done the deed, not before. And had a schmoozy party at his house for a political fund-raiser. And continued to do little projects and serve on boards with him. I think there would be some serious screeching going on.

 

Timothy McVeigh is not really a good example, mainly because he's dead. One past association I could write off as the misjudgment of youth, or just circumstance. In other words, a "Yes, I was friends with McVeigh, but had no idea about what he was going to do, do not condone it, and now he's dead ..." I could swallow it. If further proof came to light that in fact McCain or Palin had been best buds with McVeigh and had attended Terrorist Anonymous meetings together, well, no, that would be a deal-breaker.

 

But continued association with a series of individuals who have a particular mindset, well, yes, that's a problem. If John McCain or Sarah Palin prove to have a history of repeated friendships with people whose dearly-held views are those that I consider harmful and not what I want for America, then you bet, they'd never have my vote. Ever. EVER. I'd consider them to be potentially dangerous; at the very least, it would be clear that we did not share ideologies, and it makes sense for me to vote with people who share my ideologies, at least to some degree, yes?

 

As for an agenda... you can look at Mr. Ayers' own site (at least, as far as I can tell, it's legit). This link is to downloads of the syllabi he uses in his classes for teaching teachers. You can read and judge for yourself.

[Jugglin'5]

People are free to denounce our country, etc., but they are not free to try to kill people to make a political statement and intimidate courts of law. I agree that it would concern me, and the Wright thing certainly concerns me; but the Ayers and Dohrn "Let's blow up this judge and his family, and the only thing I regret is that we didn't do more" friendship really angers and sickens me.

 

:iagree: That's what I don't understand. There is a history of close association with people who denounce our country, our ideologies, our government. Why doesn't that concern people? Why does everyone give that a pass because he reads a good speech and has a disarming smile?

[Gailmegan]

The grant was made by the Annenberg foundation to the Ayers organization. I don't believe they had any control or direction of the money or how it was distributed after it was granted. Isn't Annenberg deceased?

 

Sorry, I just woke up from a nap and my wording was fuzzy. I will try to find the link, but I read on MSNBC.com that it was a school reform organization that was "established and funded" by the Annenberg Foundation. Yes, Annenberg is now deceased, which is why I mentioned his Republican daughter rund the foundation currently. My point is that since this organization was established by Annenberg, who clearly had a say in board members, that his association with Ayers is even more than Obama's.

[RebeccaC]

This connection with Ayers is killing me. The board on which both Ayers and Obama served was an educational foundation run by Annenberg. You know, the right-wing Republican whose daughter now runs the Annenberg foundation and is a major contributor of McCain's. If Obama is guilty by association then Annenberg is even more so.

 

It was not run by Annenberg it got a grant from the Annenberg foundation of 50 million big difference. Once the grant was awarded, Annenberg had no part of it.

[RebeccaC]

It is not just his association with Ayers and his program but it is where Obama, who was in control of the money, put that 50 million and it was to left wing groups who were in line with Ayers philosophy. In my opinion it is not just guilt by association but also what Obama did with the money that is telling.

 

I know that the Dems are trying to spin this as Annenberg was part of this but he was not. His foundation gave out grants, Ayers applied for the grant, it would be nice to see those application papers :eek: and how they were worded by Ayers, the money was granted and that was the end of the involvement with the Annenberg foundation. I would imagine that if Annenberg himself knew how the money was used he would be rolling in his grave.

[kokotg]

:iagree: That's what I don't understand. There is a history of close association with people who denounce our country, our ideologies, our government. Why doesn't that concern people? Why does everyone give that a pass because he reads a good speech and has a disarming smile?

 

So suppose Michelle Obama or Jill Biden had been a longtime member of a group that advocated secession from the US and whose founder said things like, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their **** flag." ...that would be a problem for you?

Edited October 8, 2008 by kokotg

[Jugglin'5]

Now, you don't really want to get me started on Michelle do you? :D

 

So suppose Michelle Obama or Jill Biden had been a longtime member of a group that advocated secession from the US and whose founder said things like, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their **** flag." ...that would be a problem for you?

[Mama Lynx]

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/21/inside-the-obama-ayers-chicago-annenberg-challenge-records/

[kokotg]

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/08/21/inside-the-obama-ayers-chicago-annenberg-challenge-records/

 

No Quarter? That's the dude that promised us video of Michelle Obama railing against "whitey" months ago. He assured us his sources were impeccable, as I recall.

[Mama Lynx]

No Quarter? That's the dude that promised us video of Michelle Obama railing against "whitey" months ago. He assured us his sources were impeccable, as I recall.

 

I posted that article because it contains links to the CAC documents. One does not need to read a word of the web page, merely to click on the pdf links. In this particular instance, it makes little (any?) sense to rail against trustworthiness, when the documents themselves are *right there*. This is just the first site that came up in my search.

 

But we all need a little fun in life, so if it makes you feel better ... denounce away :D

[Mama Lynx]

So suppose Michelle Obama or Jill Biden had been a longtime member of a group that advocated secession from the US and whose founder said things like, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government. And I won't be buried under their **** flag." ...that would be a problem for you?

 

Not necessarily. The devil would be in the details. I'd need more info, and to ask more questions, to look for a pattern of behavior, self-expressed views, and to see how independent the spouse is WRT to political views. Spouses can hold very differing views. And I'd need weigh my judgment. As I indicated re: McVeigh, above.

 

Is it a problem for you, as the media has laid it out?

Edited October 8, 2008 by Mama Lynx
completeness

[kokotg]

I posted that article because it contains links to the CAC documents. One does not need to read a word of the web page, merely to click on the pdf links. In this particular instance, it makes little (any?) sense to rail against trustworthiness, when the documents themselves are *right there*. This is just the first site that came up in my search.

 

But we all need a little fun in life, so if it makes you feel better ... denounce away :D

 

I know. I just like to make fun of the No Quarter guy. Although I do think source matters. While I might read them, I wouldn't post a link from Huffington Post or the Nation here to support a position.

[Mama Lynx]

Better still, go look for your own documents, from a source you prefer.

 

I doubt these are going to be particularly incriminating, anyway. There's much more entertaining reading in his syllabi.

[Mama Lynx]

I know. I just like to make fun of the No Quarter guy. Although I do think source matters. While I might read them, I wouldn't post a link from Huffington Post or the Nation here to support a position.

 

With an opinion piece, or a piece of journalism, I'd agree with you. But for the links - eh.

[kokotg]

 

Is it a problem for you, as the media has laid it out?

 

Nope. I have a long list of reasons why I wouldn't vote for Palin, and that one's not on it. I do think this election would have been over before it started if it came out that Michelle Obama had an association with a similar group, though.

[kokotg]

With an opinion piece, or a piece of journalism, I'd agree with you. But for the links - eh.

 

yeah, mostly I was just being snarky. I apologize.

[Gailmegan]

From The New York Times, Oct 4, 2008

 

That project was part of a national school reform effort financed with $500 million from Walter H. Annenberg, the billionaire publisher and philanthropist and President Richard M. Nixon’s ambassador to the United Kingdom. Many cities applied for the Annenberg money, and Mr. Ayers joined two other local education activists to lead a broad, citywide effort that won nearly $50 million for Chicago.

 

 

and

 

Archives of the Chicago Annenberg project, which funneled the money to networks of schools from 1995 to 2000, show both men attended six board meetings early in the project — Mr. Obama as chairman, Mr. Ayers to brief members on school issues.

 

 

Link to full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=2&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

 

So these men met once a year for six years to manage distribution of educational funds set up by a Republican foundation, and people are more concerned about Obama's connection with Ayers than they are with Todd Palin being a MEMBER of the Alaska secessionist party. It's "Country First" right??