Grounding a dyslexic 12 yo

[Citrusheights5]

Yeah he's decided to puff up and excersice that 12 snotiness and have had to take away sunlight for 2 weeks, but that leaves me in a difficult position. Because of the severity of his issues that limits what he can do, even productively.

 

So. Do you think that modifying his kindle to only allow audiobooks, and deleting all the apps except for the one that displays technic/Lego building instructions, would be giving in? He cannot leave the house or use the game systems, computer, other kids electronics or television for two weeks.

Having a hard time deciding where to draw the line and still be realistic about what he can do.

[OneStepAtATime]

I need clarification. Are you saying he was acting "snotty" and you grounded him from playing outside in sunlight for 2 weeks?  

[Daria]

I would choose a shorter duration, and find other productive things he can do during that time -- like scrubbing bathrooms. 

[PeterPan]

If you turn on the kindle parental controls, you'll be able to turn off the apps without deleting them.  That would make a lot more sense, since deleting them creates a lot of hassle (losing accounts, settings, etc.).  It also gives you control to be able to earn/dispense/lose them.  

[Citrusheights5]

I have turned off the apps, but since he must remain in his room, I wanted to give him access to one app. The only to do that was delete the others, as so only one is there.

His "problem" is that he is proving a point that we cannot make him do anything. So cleaning and gardening are out. He know that doing work will get him out of his room, but he is digging in.

 

Grounded from sunlight is an expression meaning he has lost everything. For all my other kids, that means they only have access to books and one "toy". With this guy, that leaves audio books and technic legos instuctions (it's an app).

Having access to a Kindle undermines the grounding, I feel(parental controls are on and he has access to nothing else) , but at the same time it is the same as the other kids too.

[PeterPan]

Does he have a social learning disability or other complicating factors?  My ds does similar things, and, honestly, fighting with him and power plays aren't very effective.  Not trying to get in the middle of your parenting, just saying.  My dd (no social learning disability) was never non-compliant on that extreme a level.  I'm not denying what you're seeing and dealing with, because I can totally imagine my ds doing that in a few years given how challenging he is now!  I'm just thinking if there's more to the story, maybe more than common parenting techniques would help.  

 

I think, having begun, you have to follow through.  Maybe you have some options to refab the parameters on follow through?  Like maybe it's MORE sunlight (instead of NO sunlight), because a favorite uncle comes in and takes him to shadow for the week? It might take our kids a long time to realize how brilliant and wise we are.  It would be good enough if they recognized SOMEONE as wise and worth listening to.   :)

Edited May 8, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[PeterPan]

And, depending on how he is, a week in his room with a kindle and option to do legos might actually be reinforcing!!  I mean, think what he got.  He defied you, and bam, no need to go places you don't like, no need to obey outside the home, no need to compromise with siblings and be flexible, just sit in your room and play legos!  In our house, that would actually backfire and result in MORE withdrawal, because it's reinforcing something he likes.  

 

So yes, I think it's screwy to give him back the app.  Me, I would do a 180.  I'm flexible like that.  I'd go wow I was just realizing maybe I had been overkill.  Every day when you're properly compliant you earn apps on after school work is done.  Not compliant, no apps.  That's a natural consequence.  So tell him that he loses apps COMPLETELY for a day for his non-compliance and that from now on that's the policy, that apps are EARNED.  

 

Anything that is a reinforcer, something that he LIKES or goes to for calming or pleasure, is something you can use that way.  But it has to be defined ahead, kwim?  Not capricious.  And I would set it up as an earned situation, where he does his work and he EARNS the thing. Right now his life is good (lego, kindle, blah blah) irrespective of how he treats you.  That's what you have to change.  It doesn't sound like lack of sunlight actually matters to him, so it's not reinforcing to lose it.  If he were super kinesthetic and really VALUED being outside or going to athletic classes, then they would be a reinforcer you could earn/lose.  But right now they aren't for him, hence the continued defiance.  And on the one thing that IS a reinforcer, you're feeling so bad for him that you're giving it back!!  This makes no sense.  

 

So be dispassionate, move to an earned system, and lose as natural consequences.  And I wouldn't let it go a week because that's suffering, everyone suffering.  One day, natural consequences, new day new start.

[hornblower]

since this isn't a JAWM, I'll say that I think your punishment is way too severe. 

[MomatHWTK]

I am on my third child hitting adolescent angst. I sometimes lose my cool when they are just over the top with bad behavior. But really, those poor kids have so many hormones rushing through them, their brains are growing, they are hungry, confused... There is simply no way to win a battle of wills with someone in that condition. (IMO)

 

I can't even imagine trying to ground a kid for two weeks.

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by MomatHWTK

[Daria]

For a child who isn't doing anything, being left alone with books to read, and unlimited time to build legos, doesn't sound like a punishment.  It sounds like he's getting what he wants.   

 

I don't use a lot  of punishing and power struggling as parenting tools, but if you're going to use them, I'd probably design it differently.  In your room with nothing except 1 piece of work.  When that gets done (after an hour or a day or a week of waiting) then I'd give back 1 thing (app, the opportunity to visit other parts of the house) until the end of the day.  Then the next morning, start with nothing and 2 pieces of work to earn 2 things.  Those 2 things could be academic work, or housekeeping tasks or whatever.  Keep it up until a work then play routine is established, and then keep that structure (e.g. task list in the morning, privileges come after work is completed) for quite a while. 

[Citrusheights5]

I appreciate the responses and perspectives. With Miles being in his room is a punished. He is the kid who is gone until the sun goes down. He's has attempted to leave his room , so I can tell this hurts.

 

He took a swing at his father, and at me this past week. There are alot of thing at play, but we are aware and in touch with his doctor about it, and belive the punishment is worth the crime.

 

He doesn't have any social problems.

[hornblower]

With all due respect, a child this age attempting physical violence at parents would IMO be displaying social problems.

 

I would not be punishing.

 

I would be urgently seeking family counselling through a child development / attachment psychologist. 

[imagine.more]

Yeah, I'd have done the same thing. 

 

Is the technic/lego app thing an educational thing or a fun thing for him? I mean, legos are a very positive toy, but is it something required for his schooling vs just a productive playtime thing? If it's part of his schooling I'd allow it, if it's not then I'd eliminate that. 

 

I don't think allowing audiobooks would be a big concession for a dyslexic tween since he's grounded from other things. Now, my avid reader sometimes I've grounded him for a day or two from reading for fun because it stings but it wasn't in conjunction with other things. I've never grounded my dyslexic kid from any sort of reading just because it's not a strong enough desire for her to read that it keeps her from doing what she needs to do, unlike DS :) 

 

I like Daria's idea of using this time to enforce academic/housework tasks getting done by having him do one, then another, etc. 

[Julie of KY]

I'm with the others in saying that I don't care for the grounding by locking him in his room. What does he actually learn from that?

 

My daughter could lay in bed and listen to books all day so that wouldn't be a punishment.

 

I don't think punishments need to be equal across the board. What IS a punishment for one child might be a reward for another. Take each child individually. I'm all for taking away electronics. If books are listened to, then I'd allow a set amount of time for listening, but would fill the other time with something else (non-electronic). Outside time is too important at my home to take away. I might take away the "fun" of outside such as friends or wandering at the creek, but I'd still send them outside.

 

[PeterPan]

With all due respect, a child this age attempting physical violence at parents would IMO be displaying social problems.

 

I would not be punishing.

 

I would be urgently seeking family counselling through a child development / attachment psychologist. 

 

This.  Look up the stats on the number of people in jail who turn out to have learning disabilities, social learning disabilities, ADHD, etc. etc.  At the Social Thinking workshop I went to they had stats on the number of people in jail with social learning disabilities, and it was HIGH.  You may be missing a chance to get to some root causes and do some intervention here.

 

If it's just being bad, then working on social thinking (with a behaviorist, with a counselor) will just improve his ability to put words to what's going on.  And if he has some challenges there, then you'd be getting at the deeper problems.  It won't *hurt* any child to improve their social thinking, perspective taking, etc.

 

Maybe some articles to get you started?  https://www.socialthinking.com/Resources?id={349DB553-650D-43F1-9642-E0D9939FFD9B}#f:mds=[social%20emotional%20%26%20mental%20health]

 

Has he had pragmatics testing?  You could look through his evals and see.  

Edited May 9, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Citrusheights5]

Ok, I get it you don't ground children I do. Perhaps you didn't spank your children I did. Tween is too old to spank. Tween loves being alowed out to play. If you go back you will see how social outgoing,and outdoorsy he is. He is dealing with anger and fustation issues. He is feeling out of control. He is off his ADD med's because it is pushing up his aggressiion, but that is also leaving him fustrated.

He wanted to go watch captain America in 3d. Because of vision issues we said no, only regular.

He began cuz zing us out.

He was told to go in his room and calm down.

He said no you can't make me.

You can't make me calm down,

You can't make me go in my room

When no one responded he started swinging in order to get a reaction.

He was grounded for two weeks, in his room. No friends, no tv, no electronics.

While he is being kept seperate, for everyone's safety that is no reason to be without anything. Therefore, he is allowed his kindle for audiobooks, and building app. He attends public school *guess where he learned violence is the answer* he is not in his room all day. He is I. His room from 3-5, and 6-8. And the weekends he was allowed out for family obligations.

His doctor recommended his room as punishment until the setrain (zyloft) took affect. That could be weeks to months. There I no tv in his room, there is no computer or video games so the rest is part of the package.

He has no door on his room, as he broke that. So he's not locked in.

I felt weird allowing the Kindle after saying no electronics. I was looking for opinions. 2 weeks may be super harsh. I get that. I don't belive in catering to children and excusing bad behavior, due to a lable. He has dyslexia and add. Nither of thouse would be an excuse to hit your parents. A reactions to meds is understandable. But still does not excuse his behavior. I go in there with him to talk. his brothers have gone in to play board games with him. But this gives them the opportunity to walk away when he becomes aggressive.

[kbutton]

Ok, I get it you don't ground children I do. Perhaps you didn't spank your children I did. Tween is too old to spank. Tween loves being alowed out to play. If you go back you will see how social outgoing,and outdoorsy he is. He is dealing with anger and fustation issues. He is feeling out of control. He is off his ADD med's because it is pushing up his aggressiion, but that is also leaving him fustrated.

He wanted to go watch captain America in 3d. Because of vision issues we said no, only regular.

He began cuz zing us out.

He was told to go in his room and calm down.

He said no you can't make me.

You can't make me calm down,

You can't make me go in my room

When no one responded he started swinging in order to get a reaction.

He was grounded for two weeks, in his room. No friends, no tv, no electronics.

While he is being kept seperate, for everyone's safety that is no reason to be without anything. Therefore, he is allowed his kindle for audiobooks, and building app. He attends public school *guess where he learned violence is the answer* he is not in his room all day. He is I. His room from 3-5, and 6-8. And the weekends he was allowed out for family obligations.

His doctor recommended his room as punishment until the setrain (zyloft) took affect. That could be weeks to months. There I no tv in his room, there is no computer or video games so the rest is part of the package.

He has no door on his room, as he broke that. So he's not locked in.

I felt weird allowing the Kindle after saying no electronics. I was looking for opinions. 2 weeks may be super harsh. I get that. I don't belive in catering to children and excusing bad behavior, due to a lable. He has dyslexia and add. Nither of thouse would be an excuse to hit your parents. A reactions to meds is understandable. But still does not excuse his behavior. I go in there with him to talk. his brothers have gone in to play board games with him. But this gives them the opportunity to walk away when he becomes aggressive.

 

I think it's okay to limit more specifically and would not worry that it's slightly inconsistent unless he'll use the inconsistency to argue with you.

 

I don't think most of the people here are saying that you shouldn't ground him. I think that several are suggesting additional tools because we have kids whose issues create that frustration, and hard kids require a bigger toolbox of strategies. The tools being suggested are behavioral and social, with social being defined broadly as thinking and interacting of any kind and the self-reflection and self-regulation needed to interact successfully. Several of us are using those tools under similar circumstances, and they do help. 

 

It's really, really hard to find effective strategies for some kids, especially if there isn't a lot that motivates them, or they swing between motivated and defeated with no middle ground.

 

You don't at all have to answer my question, but I am asking as kind of way to think through options...Did he respond well to grounding (become more compliant, apologize for bad behavior, work harder to do well, etc.) at previous points in his life for this to become a good tool for parenting him? (Not all kids respond to the same things, so I am asking this reflectively and neutrally, not as a judgment.) I am frustrated on your behalf that you are in the position to have to deal with med changes but have not really been given much advice or many tools for making this a successful experience (it sounds like you're expected to wait it out and just stick him in his room when he's aggressive). 

 

Isolation in his room for safety and grounding are not quite the same. I think it's wise to have him be in his room, and it's great that his siblings can come and go as fits the need at the time. If you feel you need to back off on the long time of being grounded from outdoors, maybe he can earn it back in small increments with clearly defined tasks/attitudes, etc. 

 

Is the outdoors off limits only as punishment for aggression, or is it also off limits because he needs supervision until the meds kick in? Or a bit of both? I think I would structure the outdoor time once the grounding is over if he needs supervision (because of aggression to sibs, etc.). I don't think it's going to be healthy to be stuck inside for months if the meds take months, and you need to put that back on the doctor to give you more strategies. Make him feel some of the discomfort you're stuck feeling because of the problems with the meds. I think we sometimes have to pin professionals down until they make sane and helpful recommendations.  ;) I'm not above saying things like, "If you think that's a great strategy, I'll be glad to set him up in your spare bedroom, doc, but I think I'm going to need more options than that."

 

 

[Citrusheights5]

He does respond well to being grounded from playing outdoors. He is a bike kid, and has been known to wander he neighboorhood. His friends are a bad influence, and when he was being honeschooled, it limited the time he spent and had a better gage then to follow. Now that he is at school it is almost impossible. Limiting hi going out also limits the influence, and it has always in the past brought about compliant behavior. Our other kids do not attend school in our neighborhood, because it is rough, but they had the services. It was not a good decision this year. He has improved behaviorally this weekend, and was allowed to watch TV in the living room for an hour yesterday. But once he got lippy he was sent back to his room.

The meds were given back today (who decided this madness) because he has 2 days left of state testing.

Next year he will be homeschooled, more than likely. We found a school that does Barton but it is more than I think our budget can take.

[kbutton]

He does respond well to being grounded from playing outdoors. He is a bike kid, and has been known to wander he neighboorhood. His friends are a bad influence, and when he was being honeschooled, it limited the time he spent and had a better gage then to follow. Now that he is at school it is almost impossible. Limiting hi going out also limits the influence, and it has always in the past brought about compliant behavior. Our other kids do not attend school in our neighborhood, because it is rough, but they had the services. It was not a good decision this year. He has improved behaviorally this weekend, and was allowed to watch TV in the living room for an hour yesterday. But once he got lippy he was sent back to his room.

The meds were given back today (who decided this madness) because he has 2 days left of state testing.

Next year he will be homeschooled, more than likely. We found a school that does Barton but it is more than I think our budget can take.

 

I'm sorry school has exacerbated things. It's very hard sometimes for our difficult kids to gravitate toward good influences.  :grouphug:

[OneStepAtATime]

Good luck OP.  I don't know of anything useful to say but I do wish you and your family good luck navigating these waters.

[Citrusheights5]

Just a quick update. Miles is off of grounding, and has the right attitude (for the most part). He's testing today to see if he's gained enough good points to act up. Being sent to his room, for 15 minutes has been enough to get him in line.