AOPS and pacing

[happypamama]

We're going to try AOPS Geometry next year for ninth grade.  I gather from reading here that AOPS can really vary in how long it takes to complete problems, that some of them can be quite complex and may take a long time to solve.  Okay, I get that.  How does that work with pacing and completing the book in a year?  If my student spends a solid hour a day on it but only completes part of a section, 180 days of the year, that's 180 hours and should easily be one credit -- but what if she hasn't finished the book?

 

Also, while I'm on the topic, what does using AOPS look like at your house for a ninth grader?  It's a little different from any of the math programs we've used, so I'm not sure what my level of involvement should be.  Typically, I teach a lesson, guide the student through practice problems, and then have them do problem sets on their own, but it looks like AOPS may work differently, and it looks like it's written to the student more.  Do I just hand the book to the student and have her read it on her own and work as many problems as she can in 45-60 minutes, with me just on hand for help as needed, or should I plan to do some direct teaching first, or what?

[Targhee]

My DD is finishing 8th, but in her use of AOPS I went through the layout of the book with her, gave her a suggested pace, and let her go. Every so often I would check in with her on how she was doing. Sometimes I would ask her to do the challenge problems but let me grade them. That was just to validate her progress.

 

The books are truly self-teaching. There are no videos for geometry, sadly, but the book leads you to discovery and learning

 

We did switch to AOPS online classes because I wanted her to have a chance to interact with other mathy kids, and to be responsible to someone besides me. It also gives her a pace to stay on, and a challenging one at that. Geometry in the online class is 24 weeks - that's book work, 1.5 hour class, challenge problems, and Alcumus topics. I would estimate your dc is probably going to spend 60-90 minutes a day more realistically, depending on the problems and on your student.

 

I think with geometry, 180 days is realistic but I would set pace markers (like 1/4 of the book every 9 weeks) to keep you on track rather than only doing an amount of time a day.

[regentrude]

For math, I assign the credit after the material is completed. Time spent is irrelevant.

DD worked in larger chunks, but DS could only focus on one hour of math before concentration waned. So he worked one hour each day, until we were done.

If something is not done by the end of the school year it gets finished over the summer.

 

This said: finishing AoPS geometry in a year is no problem. Ch 13 and 19 contain material not typically covered

in high school and I would have no qualms about skipping those and still giving a full geometry credit.

 

In 9th grade, my kids worked independently through the book; I was available when they had questions.

Edited May 7, 2016 by regentrude

[Luckymama]

Dd prefered that I stay in the same room while she worked on AoPS. When she was younger I'd sit next to her (she likes to think out loud while doing math), by 8th/Intermediate Algebra book I could sit across the table, and in 9th/Precalc I could be anywhere doing anything in the same room. This year, 10th, we actually worked through calculus together :)

 

As to pacing, she just worked as long as she felt like it without being tired or frustrated. I know that doesn't help :lol: For some books or chapters she could do a section per day, two days on the review, and one-two days on the challenge problems. For other books or chapters she'd take two days per section.

[wapiti]

Ch 13 and 19 contain material not typically covered

 

FWIW, AoPS ch 13's topics are covered in both Jurgensen and Glencoe McGraw Hill Common Core Geometry (horrid text my ds13 is using at school).  These texts do not use the term "Power of a Point" but simply refer to lengths in circles.  Since ch 13 is short, I would do it.  

 

Like the others, I don't foresee difficulty getting through the text in a year.  How long it takes depends also on how many end-of-chapter challenge problems the student completes and whether you also assign Alcumus (I liked to use Alcumus for occasional review).  As far as helping and working through together, if possible I'd rather help with the lesson problems than the exercises, as the former are intended for learning and the latter for practice.

Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[daijobu]

My kids were younger (7th and 8th grade when they worked through geometry), so I would work through the problems together and they would do the exercises on their own.  Even now with my older dd in 9th grade and just starting precalculus, she prefers that we work through the problems together.  Certainly, if your student is a more independent learner, you can leave him to read and learn on his own.  If they have trouble interpreting the solutions, we'd review the solutions together.  

 

We spend one day per section, and then 2-3 days on review problems and another 2-3 days on challenge problems.  Some sections are short and my kids get a break, sometimes they are long.  If the section is really long, we divide it up over 2 days.  

 

Because the online classes are too fast paced for my kids, they would mainly take the fun "extra" classes like MathCounts and AMC prep, counting, or whatever their friends were taking.  

[happypamama]

Thank you all!  This is helpful.

 

Another question: in reading some past threads, people said that the earlier chapters tend to take longer.  Is that true of the Geometry also?  But at the same time, wouldn't they also be easier?  So maybe a student can do more problems in a day earlier?  Or no?  Just wondering what I should be thinking as far as keeping tabs on where we are at a given point.

[Arcadia]

If you run out of time, skip the challenge problems until Summer break.

For pacing, you could look at WTMA syllabus using the same text as a guide

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ws7N0rrt8LlAxB4le4ADX-bUlIc6l24W5bmwhVsmpAM/mobilebasic?pli=1

[happypamama]

If you run out of time, skip the challenge problems until Summer break.

For pacing, you could look at WTMA syllabus using the same text as a guide

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ws7N0rrt8LlAxB4le4ADX-bUlIc6l24W5bmwhVsmpAM/mobilebasic?pli=1

I didn't know about that -- many thanks!!

[regentrude]

 

Another question: in reading some past threads, people said that the earlier chapters tend to take longer.  Is that true of the Geometry also?  But at the same time, wouldn't they also be easier?  So maybe a student can do more problems in a day earlier?  Or no?  Just wondering what I should be thinking as far as keeping tabs on where we are at a given point.

 

I found that the difficulty varies tremendously from problem to problem. There were geometry proofs that took me (with advanced math background) 2 hours with DD, and then three years later it took me again 2 hours when I worked with DS. And others take a few minutes.

really, I would not go by number of chapters or sections but simply put in time on task and be done when done.

 

Some students are great at algebra and are very systematic linear thinkers but struggle with spatial reasoning and have a harder time with 3d geometry. Time spent on algebra may have nothing to do with time spent on geo.