So what is up with Saxon Math?

[mrscopterdoc]

I am mostly a lurker here, and I have searched and searched on this subject. In WTM book it says to go with Saxon math. Well, in elementary school DD did not care for it so we went with Rod and Staff and I felt like such a rebel not following the guideline! *gasp* But you go with what works for your kiddo, right? Well, we have now entered the realm of high school and algebra I and I did lots and lots of lurking yet again. I fell in love with Teaching Textbooks and most of the debate on here was 50/50. Either you loved it or hated it. The first 10 lessons we loved it and then DD started getting confused. They would answer a problem one way and another one another way with *no* explantion as to *why*. :confused:

 

So...time to change. Since WTM says to use Saxon and it has the teacher CD's that we are familiar with from TT AND our umbrella school recommended it AND DD looked at samples and liked it....I have ordered it.

 

My question is....if WTM says to use it.....why do so few use it?? I know, I know lots of us veer away from WTM [me included]. Am I just searching wrong? The only things I can find about it are it uses the spiral method and either it will or it won't work with your kids. Just like everything else I guess.:001_unsure:

 

Okay thanks for letting me ramble.

[Ria]

I think Saxon is a very solid high school math program. From what I've gathered from my homeschooling friends around here, they are intimidated by higher-level math. They don't feel comfortable helping their kids if needed once the kids are in algebra, alg 2, pre-calc, and calc. So, more and more seem to be turning towards the computer-based programs because the "teacher" explains it on the screen. This is a trend I've experienced here in our local homeschool community.

 

My personal feeling is that Saxon is a better choice than computer-based programs. In addition, there are some other fantastic textbooks out there (Foerster, for example). The NEM series from Singapore is excellent and, in my personal experience, much more challenging than Saxon. It's downside is that it needs a math-saavy teacher to go along with it, lol.

 

JMHO,

Ria

[Jane in NC]

Adding on to Ria's comments:

 

The spiraling approach of Saxon is great for some kids but problematic for others.

 

Also, Saxon lacks a separate geometry component which some desire.

 

Jane

[mrscopterdoc]

Also, Saxon lacks a separate geometry component which some desire.

 

Jane

 

Do you think that there is enough Geometry in their other books combined to not be worried about this?

[Jane in NC]

Do you think that there is enough Geometry in their other books combined to not be worried about this?

 

I have not scrutinized the entire series so I really cannot make that call, but I do know of one problem that surfaced for my son's friend. In order to receive a geometry credit through Saxon, a student must go through Advanced Math. This young lady decided to take precalculus at the CC, so she had to jump ship from Saxon to complete another geometry program. You might want to take the long term view and consider whether your student might want to do something like this.

 

Jane

[mrscopterdoc]

*sigh* Okay thanks....more things to think about. :o

[Nan in Mass]

There are plenty of people for whom it works fine. It just didn't for us. It chops things up into little pieces and my two older children were incapable of putting the little pieces back together again, so they were unable to apply any of the math they had learned with Saxon. I think that is what happened, anyway. The scary part for me was that it appeared to be working fine. My children did fine on the Saxon problem sets. It turned out, though, that they were just memorizing the algorithms, not really understanding the way math works, so when they went to solve problems in real life requiring math, they couldn't do it. My advice is this: if you have a child who needs a textbook that tells them the whole picture and teaches how to apply the information in real life (either for understanding or practice), don't use Saxon. And if you do use Saxon, make sure you check periodically that they are able to do the math in some form other than it appears in Saxon. For example, Saxon is careful about the wording of word problems, so it is easy for a child to figure out that when the word "and" appears, you add, etc. If the child comes to rely on this, rather than on thinking about what really needs to be done to solve the problem, they may not be able to solve a problem that isn't worded as consistently, or solve one from real life that is never put into words at all. Saxon has had lots of successful users; I just think you need to look carefully to determine whether you are or are not one of them. Just looking at whether the child does well on the problem set isn't enough.

HTH

-Nan

[langfam]

For us, Saxon killed the love for Math. After 11 years of Saxon, this year, 4 dc are using Chalkdust and are loving it. Often they'll tell me that they get it now and that math is no longer the dreaded subject. A big plus for us this year with dc doing precalculus and calculus is Dana Mosely showing how to use the graphing calculator. He shows the graphing calcuator screen and shows exactly how to use it. When dc did Saxon Advanced Math they didn't use the graphing calculator.

 

 

I'm not saying that Saxon is necessarily bad, it's just the way it's set-up jumping from topic to topic. Some of my dc could never connect the concepts or see how one related to the other....so it was frustrating. They said they often had to refer back to previous lessons because they were never given enough practice problems in each problem set to get it down before moving on. Chalkdust's approach makes more sense to them. They practice one concept until they get it. and they can see the sequence of how one concept is related to the one before.

 

 

At first, I was concerned that there would not be enough review, but the section reviews, end of chapter reviews and cumulative reviews are definitely sufficient.

And because there are so many probelms to choose from I need only assign odds. With Saxon you had to do all the problems. Assigning odds would mean you'd miss some concepts.

 

 

Lastly, 2 dc had done average on the SAT after using Saxon, but improved their scores alot after using Chalkdust's SAT review. I guess that sold me on Dana Mosely.

[Quiver0f10]

I think alot of why not more people are using it is because more popular products have come out. Back when I first started home schooling, eveyone was using saxon. It was the in thing LOL. Now there is VT, TT, CD etc so people have more options.

[Storm Bay]

I suspect that the newest WTM may have more options than just Saxon as SWB had a thread asking us about what we used, etc. Saxon was not the best fit here, and while many use it happily, I think there are other fine programs out there. You may wish to check the algebra tag for posts on this subjects, or do a search for algebra posts on the high school forum to find what works for people who follow WTM--you'll find some variation, but certain methods come up quite often.

[Kris]

There are plenty of people for whom it works fine. It just didn't for us. It chops things up into little pieces and my two older children were incapable of putting the little pieces back together again, so they were unable to apply any of the math they had learned with Saxon. I think that is what happened, anyway.

 

Same here. He did fine with Saxon Pre-Algebra, but when it came to Algebra I, he made it to lesson 40, which was mostly review anyway, and hit a wall he couldn't budge. I have to admire his determination. I offered to switch his program many times, but he wanted to keep trying. So after, basically, wasting a year trying to "make it work" we've switched to Lial's and he's much happier.

 

I don't know what the problem was -- I have guesses only -- and at this point I don't care. Saxon definitely works for some, but not for us.

[yslek]

Do you think that there is enough Geometry in their other books combined to not be worried about this?

 

My high school used Saxon; I took Algebra 2 & Advanced Math. The amount of Geometry should be fine if the concern is doing well on standardized tests.

 

My Jr. High used the standard American progression, so I took "regular" Algebra 1 and Geometry before switching to Saxon. Even after Saxon Adv. Math, the amount of Geometry covered didn't quite measure up to my 8th grade Geometry course. Proofs were only introduced in Saxon, while in 8th grade it seemed we spent the entire year on proofs; they got more complicated, too.

 

That being said, Saxon was a lifesaver for me. I barely passed Algebra 1 & Geometry, and really didn't understand the concepts. When I changed school districts, I was bummed at first to be stuck with Saxon (some friends had warned me against it) especially since I was losing at least a semester of math this way. As it turned out, that extra bit of review and the spiral format were just what I needed! I finally "got" math, and by the time I took Advanced Math, scored a 100% in my class (the first and only time that's happened. :D) I also did much better on standardized tests after Saxon.

[mrscopterdoc]

Thank you so much everyone! You have really given me a lot to think about. Since I have already ordered it :( and we have already given up on TT we are going to stick with Algebra I at least and see how that goes.

 

DD is good with math and seems to *get it* very easily and enjoys math, but has no desire to major in math in college. I just want something that will challenge her, help with SAT, and get her into and through college. I hope that doesn't sound bad.

[coopers5]

Christina,

 

Hi - I know you got lots of replies but I just wanted to add - there's no need for your sad face on the last post, at having already ordered the Saxon.

I am one of the folks who's used it for all of my homeschooling.

Here's my take:

 

Saxon is challenging and covers everything. It prepares kids WELL for standardized and college entrance testing.

It doesn't have lots of "bells and whistles" and as new products came around in recent years I think that there were many who, instead of just plugging along with what was already working, began sort of following the crowd and jumping on other bandwagons.

I think this is a mistake - to make lots of switches once you get into secondary math.

Sometimes you have to "plug your ears," so to speak, when others begin talking about this curriculum or that curriculum when you know that what you have is working.

 

Also, (I didn't thoroughly read every post, so it might've been mentioned) but, the DIVE cds to go with the Saxon are great, too, if you need help with it.

 

God bless,

Jo

[Ellie]

I don't think you can say "so few" use it. You're talking to a small subset of homeschoolers here, and I can tell you that MANY homeschoolers use Saxon.

 

I think you should use what you like. I prefer R&S for elementary math--Saxon's primary levels make me crazy--but my first choice for math after that would be Saxon, especially now that Saxon has its own teaching DVDs/CDs (I don't know which they are).

[mrscopterdoc]

I think you should use what you like. I prefer R&S for elementary math--Saxon's primary levels make me crazy--but my first choice for math after that would be Saxon, especially now that Saxon has its own teaching DVDs/CDs (I don't know which they are).

 

I liked R&S for elementary levels too so thanks!

 

Christina,

 

Hi - I know you got lots of replies but I just wanted to add - there's no need for your sad face on the last post, at having already ordered the Saxon.

I am one of the folks who's used it for all of my homeschooling.

Here's my take:

 

Saxon is challenging and covers everything. It prepares kids WELL for standardized and college entrance testing.

It doesn't have lots of "bells and whistles" and as new products came around in recent years I think that there were many who, instead of just plugging along with what was already working, began sort of following the crowd and jumping on other bandwagons.

I think this is a mistake - to make lots of switches once you get into secondary math.

Sometimes you have to "plug your ears," so to speak, when others begin talking about this curriculum or that curriculum when you know that what you have is working.

 

Also, (I didn't thoroughly read every post, so it might've been mentioned) but, the DIVE cds to go with the Saxon are great, too, if you need help with it.

 

God bless,

Jo

 

Thanks Jo! I really appreciate this. A lot of posts I read everyone was raving about Lials and Foresters and Chalkdust but I saw very little on Saxon and I think I panicked. I just need to *relax* and give it a try and go with what works for DD. :001_smile:

[theodwyn]

I saw that they are coming out with a new geometry book in the future so asked some questions, specifically if I should supplement with a different geometry book or would we have enough just using Saxon. This was my response:

"Saxon does integrate geometry from kindergarten through calculus. I strongly recommend you continue in the current text series. After your son completes the Advanced Math text he should receive a credit in Geometry and a credit in Trigonometry. This is an excellent preparation for ACT, SAT as well as geometry needed for calculus. The new series in high school will not be available for homeschoolers anytime in the near future. The adjustments made in the newest texts are designed to satisfy public schools, but don't contain any content not found in the current series. I don't recommend supplimenting (sic), as it will lead to confusion."

Best wishes,

Dr. B Phillips

Saxon Math Help Desk

[AngieW in Texas]

Saxon is widely used, but it never would have worked with any of my kids or with me.

 

All of us need to see the big picture, not teeny-tiny little pieces of the puzzle doled out a little bit at a time.

 

My two younger kids would not have been able to deal with the wordiness of Saxon (even though that wordiness is exactly what makes Saxon a perfect fit for the dd of a friend of mine).

 

You've already bought Saxon, so try it out. If it works, that's great. If it doesn't work, try something else. It may be the perfect program for you.

[Moni]

I n order to receive a geometry credit through Saxon, a student must go through Advanced Math.

 

But only to Lesson 60 of Advanced math, which is Half the book. :)

 

Geometry

credit is granted after completion of

Lsn 60 of Advanced Math (and Alg-1, Alg-2)

 

 

Trigonometry

credit is granted after completion of

Lsn 60-127 in Saxon Advanced Math (and Alg-1, Alg-2)

 

:seeya:

[anissarobert]

Moni-Thanks for posting this. My dd is about to start Algebra 2 and I was wondering how to list it on the transcript.

[Moni]

http://saxonhomeschool.harcourtachieve.com/en-US/saxonteacher_demo

 

just to link to a new product called Saxon Teacher

It's TT-like in that CD works every book problem, every test problem, every Practice problem, and gives a lecture, for each lesson.

 

:seeya:

Edited October 7, 2008 by Moni