OCD behaviours in children

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My daughter (just turned 10) is showing some OCD-ish behaviours. I haven't yet headed for professional help, but that is certainly on my radar.

 

I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with managing OCD in a child. What's worked? What hasn't? Any good book recommendations?

 

To give a little context, my main concern is her need to repeat the same question over and over, knowing the answer. It's about seeking reassurance and she'll even tell me that she just needs reassurance. So, she's aware of what she's doing.

 

I realise that I've been part of this 'brain loop' as I'm calling it. Each time I re-answer the same question, it's like I'm strengthening the loop.

 

So, at the moment, I'm working on gradually cutting this back. I don't want her to have to go cold-turkey on reassurance, but I'm openly talking to her about how I'm trying to help her 'break the brain loop'. I also say things like 'I don't want to highlight that same loop in your brain. If it's highlighted, you'll just keep coming back to it. Let's turn the page and use your brain connections for other things.' I do all this with smiles and hugs, hoping to help her transition away from the loop but still knowing that I care.

 

I really don't know if I'm going about this the right way and I'd welcome any suggestions.

[quark]

Lots of patience and hugs (for the both of you). And breaking the loop like you said. I have noticed that he used to get particularly anxious and questioning like you described when he had too little for his brain to focus on. Each time we upped the challenge the OCD would go away, almost the very next day or 2. It has happened too often now for it to be a coincidence.

 

I will go as far as to say that we have accelerated as much as we have to keep his mind constantly well fed, not always because he asked for it kwim? Thankfully, he has always been open to more intellectual challenge and welcomes it eagerly. It's almost as if he needs that brain food or his mind spirals into unhealthy thinking.

 

I also double check each time that he is getting a healthy dose of exercise (it's the first thing we tend to skip when we get busy) and actual food plus recommended nutrients. Fish oil, vitamins, whole fruit like bananas, and adding extra snacks to his day have helped (like nuts, stuff with healthy fats). In his case, the OCD has coincided with growth spurts too.

 

It has happened often enough that I don't worry as much as I used to anymore. BUT it is the clearest indication that he is ready for a lot more to think about at a higher level. At least for this boy. Different kids, different needs.

[Arcadia]

Have you look at anxiety? Is she able to repeat your answer back to you? My DS10 asked the same questions a few times because he love hearing himself talk and he was not paying attention to the other person's answer. A few times he was anxious he heard our answer wrongly so he asked again and again.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Quark, I love it when you chime in on my discussions. You always have something really worth thinking about and I really appreciate it.

I think we might lead quite parallel experiences. Thanks so much.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Arcadia, thanks for your input too in all my ramblings on various things. Please know that I appreciate your thoughts.

 

Yes, I really do think anxiety is playing a part. I've kind of assumed that anxiety and OCD-ish behaviours probably go hand-in-hand.

 

And no, I don't think it has anything to do with not paying attention to the answer. It's the same couple of questions day after day after day, and repeatedly until she either reaches her point of reassurance or I've put an end to it by saying something like 'I've turned the page on that now. You should too.'

[quark]

deleted...TMI

Edited April 13, 2016 by quark

[Arcadia]

My MIL and my mom are OCD about cleanliness that doesn't have an anxiety trigger but could be a culture issue in my MIL's case and occupational hazard (OT/NICU nurse) in my mom's case.

 

My DS10 would ask the same questions day in day out because he can't believe our answer. For example, when we promise to buy him a Yamaha flute that cost over $500, he couldn't believe it until my "only buy sales items" hubby paid up at the store. Same for summer camps and any event that is not free.

 

I agree with quark about keeping their brains busy. Else they dwell on whatever makes them anxious.

 

ETA:

My oldest had the red dye issue. I had to use hypoallergenic products so my kids just use the same since I buy the baby then kids version as they grow up.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Arcadia

[Incognito]

This is a pretty good book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Brain-Stuck-What-/dp/1591478057/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1460504212&sr=8-5&keywords=what+to+do+when+you+worry+too+much

 

 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My daughter's eyes are almost panicky in the moment of the questions and sometimes (rarely, fortunately) she can get really worked up to the point of crying and almost like a panic attack, with odd breathing. I need to really distract her in those moments or she's stuck. Changing physical location seems to help in those moments.

 

Also for context, the questions are related to bodily functions and food:

 

Will I vomit? She hasn't vomited in maybe 3 years but she'll ask this often and repeatedly, followed with 'are you sure?', also repeatedly.

Do I need to go the toilet? She's literally just walked out of the toilet.

Is this okay to eat? Related to use-by dates, how well meat has been cooked etc.

 

Food dyes - definitely worth thinking about and keeping an eye on. Thank you.

Growth spurts - yes, she's in early puberty and growth is speedy right now.

Brain food - she needs constant brain food. I need to have some mental puzzles up my sleeves 24/7 it seems.

 

 

Thanks for the book link, Incognito. I'll certainly look into that one.

Edited April 12, 2016 by chocolate-chip chooky

[8circles]

DS10 has anxiety that shows-up as obsessive behaviors. I've definitely read about the behaviors you describe with asking the same questions over & over.  I think you're on the right track with trying to break the loop.  One article I read suggested that you answer the question once (or twice maybe?) and then each subsequent time you just say something like "I've already answered that question and you know the answer".  As a way to remind them that they can be confident in knowing the answer & can learn to reassure themselves.  Or something like that.

 

Anyway, among other issues, DS10 is obsessed with clean silverware and would even inspect brand new plastic spoons right out of the box - if any speck of anything was found, he just wouldn't eat.  He has had some talk therapy but it became concerning enough that we chose to start him on anxiety meds.  We've had great results. 

 

Best of luck to you.  It's a hard thing to watch them suffer.

[SamanthaBea]

My ds has severe OCD that we have dealt with for most of his life. We have "been there done that" for just about every sort of treatment/medicine/supplement/therapy out there. Unfortunately, there is no one right answer for everyone. 

 

What you are describing about the need for reassurance is definitely an indicator. And your instincts to "not feed the loop" are spot on. You can also try to space out the reassurance ("If you're still worried about this in 5 minutes, I'll answer your question."). This will cause an initial spike in anxiety, but is helpful to get out of the loop in the longer term. This method is also used to break out of the compulsive behaviors. 

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. I would be happy to help! 

[chocolate-chip chooky]

DS10 has anxiety that shows-up as obsessive behaviors. I've definitely read about the behaviors you describe with asking the same questions over & over.  I think you're on the right track with trying to break the loop.  One article I read suggested that you answer the question once (or twice maybe?) and then each subsequent time you just say something like "I've already answered that question and you know the answer".  As a way to remind them that they can be confident in knowing the answer & can learn to reassure themselves.  Or something like that.

 

Anyway, among other issues, DS10 is obsessed with clean silverware and would even inspect brand new plastic spoons right out of the box - if any speck of anything was found, he just wouldn't eat.  He has had some talk therapy but it became concerning enough that we chose to start him on anxiety meds.  We've had great results. 

 

Best of luck to you.  It's a hard thing to watch them suffer.

 

Yep. Same here with silverware. Every piece is examined first. Glasses too and they get washed out several times before use.

The severity of these things waxes and wanes but never really goes away. It's all just quite strong right now.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

My ds has severe OCD that we have dealt with for most of his life. We have "been there done that" for just about every sort of treatment/medicine/supplement/therapy out there. Unfortunately, there is no one right answer for everyone. 

 

What you are describing about the need for reassurance is definitely an indicator. And your instincts to "not feed the loop" are spot on. You can also try to space out the reassurance ("If you're still worried about this in 5 minutes, I'll answer your question."). This will cause an initial spike in anxiety, but is helpful to get out of the loop in the longer term. This method is also used to break out of the compulsive behaviors. 

 

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me. I would be happy to help! 

 

I like that bit in bold. I'm going to try it out. Thank you!

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Texasmom, you're not crazy to think about it and I appreciate you joining in.

And it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one thinking about this.

[Arcadia]

Do you get free or low cost dietitian consultation for school age kids? I was able to get free dietitian services through school health services and my dad's civil service card benefits (not in US). My blood test results (full battery) were not good (anaemia and high eosinophil count) during puberty which worsen my insomnia which makes me susceptible to stress.

 

 

So if it worsen when the growth spurt started, anaemia or other deficiencies due to puberty could be a worsening factor.

[6packofun]

This is a pretty good book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-When-Brain-Stuck-What-/dp/1591478057/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1460504212&sr=8-5&keywords=what+to+do+when+you+worry+too+much

 

I was JUST looking at this for my almost 10 ds who is having OCD issues along with his (most likely) Tourette's!  I think it looks good. There are some other books in that series that might be worth it for my child, too, so thanks for the recommendation!

Edited April 13, 2016 by 6packofun

[6packofun]

I am so glad you started this thread. I have thought about posting this question for a bit now but always talked myself out of it. I put the book Incognito suggested in my Amazon cart for my next order. I have been thinking about this for some time with dd3. I feel she is beyond "quirky" on some things. The pickiness over food for instance is beyond anything anyone I know has experienced. She isn't just a little picky. She is like, hasn't eaten fruit of any sort since baby food kind of picky. And I used to try and sneak other fruits or vegetables into the foods she would eat- like mix carrots in with applesauce, but then she caught me at 14 months old. I had left a noticeable sliver of carrot. She wouldn't eat applesauce for over a year. It only takes once with her and then the suspicion sets in, so I had to let her win the food battle for quite some time. We just let it go and fed her what she would eat- all five things. Now that she is a little older, we can push her a little more and over the last two months have gotten her to try carrots, ham, and a green bean. I know that sounds like nothing to most parents, but to us it was a celebratory, dance around the room kind of accomplishment. People say their kids are picky and have NO idea.

 

But anyway, I feel like it's a blend of sensory overload for her- she's like a supertaster and the foods can cause her to gag, and the some of the control things from the OCD. She is also my latest talker. She is talking, but is has come very slowly, but when it comes to spatial things she's off the chart. She thinks RightStart Math is the grandest thing ever and loves to sort things, organize things, and the like. She likes numbers already. She is also very motherly and always concerned about others. If her brother gets sent to his room for misbehavior (they are only a year apart) it drives her crazy- she can't stop asking me why he is in trouble and please can he come out now. I just want her to be a happy little girl and am looking for ways I can be proactive in helping her with this without jumping to a specialist yet. I haven't mentioned my concerns to our pediatrician because she is obviously already opposed to homeschooling and this will just add fuel to the fire. We were at odds over speech therapy as well for my son, and now I am worried she will just use this as something else and label dd too.

 

It's funny- when I was pregnant with dd3, she lay sideways the entire pregnancy with her head cocked back at this odd angle. My OB told me "this one is going to be special. She is going to be the one that gives you a run for your money." He said there is something about babies that are situated the way she was that makes them so. I thought he was just making conversation at the time, but lately I think he was on to something......

 

Wow, my ds was/is exactly the same with food.  We just received our mega order from Vitacost to stock up on vitamins because this kid has NOT eaten a single vegetable in about 3 years unless you count french fries.   :huh:

 

AND...he was situated oddly in my uterus, too!  He flipped breech during the last couple hours of labor after being horizontal for days, causing an emergency c-section and we found he had managed to tie the umbilical cord into a knot from all his tumbling around.  LOL

[sbgrace]

The Brain Gets Stuck book is good. I think you're correct in identifying those questions as OCD and right in your instincts for handling them. I'm sorry she's struggling.

 

My son needed help. He just couldn't manage. We had really good response from N-acytl cysteine and culturelle probiotic with him. I feel fortunate in that. I can share dosing of the NAC in pediatric OCD trials if you might want to try supplements. It's safe to try, but I know it won't work as well as it does for us for everyone. I have a friend whose son is doing much better with  medication, though he is able to use a low dose with the NAC along with it. He has his life back and they they have their family peace back. A lot of kids, teens, and adults with OCD need medicine to manage.

 

The OCD foundation website (free online) has links for providers trained in OCD treatment. If you do want an expert to guide you, pick one of those and not just any therapist who says they do OCD. The training for it is very specific and different than for other anxiety disorders.

 

I'm sorry she has this, and I'm glad you recognize it and are reaching out for help for her.

 

 

[heartlikealion]

My daughter (just turned 10) is showing some OCD-ish behaviours. I haven't yet headed for professional help, but that is certainly on my radar.

 

I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with managing OCD in a child. What's worked? What hasn't? Any good book recommendations?

 

To give a little context, my main concern is her need to repeat the same question over and over, knowing the answer. It's about seeking reassurance and she'll even tell me that she just needs reassurance. So, she's aware of what she's doing.

 

I realise that I've been part of this 'brain loop' as I'm calling it. Each time I re-answer the same question, it's like I'm strengthening the loop.

 

So, at the moment, I'm working on gradually cutting this back. I don't want her to have to go cold-turkey on reassurance, but I'm openly talking to her about how I'm trying to help her 'break the brain loop'. I also say things like 'I don't want to highlight that same loop in your brain. If it's highlighted, you'll just keep coming back to it. Let's turn the page and use your brain connections for other things.' I do all this with smiles and hugs, hoping to help her transition away from the loop but still knowing that I care.

 

I really don't know if I'm going about this the right way and I'd welcome any suggestions.

 

I don't think you're doing her any favors by saying this. For one thing, it sounds like it would be filed under "little adult assumption" in 1-2-3 Magic where adults try to talk to children like they are little adults. The book would probably advice you to cut down on the verbage. I'm guilty of this myself. As for loops... well, I still suffer from them from time to time. OCD waxes and wanes and logic doesn't always make a difference. Rather than talking about changing the subject, just change the subject. But before you do that... perhaps try to dig deeper to get to the root of the question thing. Yes, we know she wants reassurance... but what is the question? Is it a hygiene thing? A safety thing? Is there a recurring theme in the questions? Is she afraid to let go of items? Does she fear harming others? Just food for thought.

 

I was too embarrassed to explain things to my mom. There was this shirt in my drawer I refused to wear as a child because in my mind it was dirty. If she had pressed the matter and made me explain why then maybe I wouldn't have gone so long thinking some of the things I did. I still have OCD with germs/sanitation as an adult, but sometimes I think if Mom and Dad had intervened more it wouldn't have developed so much? A lot of it was learned behavior from a sibling I believe.

 

I read two books, but I can't remember both titles. The only one I can remember is likely irrelevant to the average OCD sufferer.

[heartlikealion]

My daughter's eyes are almost panicky in the moment of the questions and sometimes (rarely, fortunately) she can get really worked up to the point of crying and almost like a panic attack, with odd breathing. I need to really distract her in those moments or she's stuck. Changing physical location seems to help in those moments.

 

Also for context, the questions are related to bodily functions and food:

 

Will I vomit? She hasn't vomited in maybe 3 years but she'll ask this often and repeatedly, followed with 'are you sure?', also repeatedly.

Do I need to go the toilet? She's literally just walked out of the toilet.

Is this okay to eat? Related to use-by dates, how well meat has been cooked etc.

 

Food dyes - definitely worth thinking about and keeping an eye on. Thank you.

Growth spurts - yes, she's in early puberty and growth is speedy right now.

Brain food - she needs constant brain food. I need to have some mental puzzles up my sleeves 24/7 it seems.

 

 

Thanks for the book link, Incognito. I'll certainly look into that one.

 

These topics are what I would focus on rather than the fact that she is repeating questions. She could have issues with bodily fluids in general which I'd lump vomit in the category. Runny noses, urine, vomit, spit...

She probably found the experience so unpleasant that it doesn't matter it was three years ago, she doesn't want to deal with it again.

 

The toilet thing... could be that she's afraid of being somewhere without access to a bathroom or worried about not emptying her bladder completely the first time, etc. You may want to ask specifically what is going on. Bathrooms (at least public) were and sometimes still are a huge source of anxiety for me.

 

Fear of contamination with the food. Doesn't want food poisoning or such probably. Maybe others are eating the food and she is concerned for their well being.

[Ausmumof3]

My daughter (just turned 10) is showing some OCD-ish behaviours. I haven't yet headed for professional help, but that is certainly on my radar.

 

I'm wondering if anyone here has experience with managing OCD in a child. What's worked? What hasn't? Any good book recommendations?

 

To give a little context, my main concern is her need to repeat the same question over and over, knowing the answer. It's about seeking reassurance and she'll even tell me that she just needs reassurance. So, she's aware of what she's doing.

 

I realise that I've been part of this 'brain loop' as I'm calling it. Each time I re-answer the same question, it's like I'm strengthening the loop.

 

So, at the moment, I'm working on gradually cutting this back. I don't want her to have to go cold-turkey on reassurance, but I'm openly talking to her about how I'm trying to help her 'break the brain loop'. I also say things like 'I don't want to highlight that same loop in your brain. If it's highlighted, you'll just keep coming back to it. Let's turn the page and use your brain connections for other things.' I do all this with smiles and hugs, hoping to help her transition away from the loop but still knowing that I care.

 

I really don't know if I'm going about this the right way and I'd welcome any suggestions.

Both my 6 and 4 year old do this. Is this more normal behaviour in younger children or

Should I be worried too?

[chocolate-chip chooky]

The Brain Gets Stuck book is good. I think you're correct in identifying those questions as OCD and right in your instincts for handling them. I'm sorry she's struggling.

 

My son needed help. He just couldn't manage. We had really good response from N-acytl cysteine and culturelle probiotic with him. I feel fortunate in that. I can share dosing of the NAC in pediatric OCD trials if you might want to try supplements. It's safe to try, but I know it won't work as well as it does for us for everyone. I have a friend whose son is doing much better with  medication, though he is able to use a low dose with the NAC along with it. He has his life back and they they have their family peace back. A lot of kids, teens, and adults with OCD need medicine to manage.

 

The OCD foundation website (free online) has links for providers trained in OCD treatment. If you do want an expert to guide you, pick one of those and not just any therapist who says they do OCD. The training for it is very specific and different than for other anxiety disorders.

 

I'm sorry she has this, and I'm glad you recognize it and are reaching out for help for her.

 

Thanks, sbgrace. I think you've offered some support (and links) to me around this issue before. I really appreciate your input.

 

Fortunately, we're not at a stage with this that it's taking over her life. It's more of a case of me wanting to nip it in the bud if possible. I can't even say for certain that it's OCD, which is why I keep referring to 'OCD-ish behaviours'.

 

I'm pleased with how she's responding to my current strategies of trying to break the loop. It doesn't seem to be causing too much anxiety, which was my main worry. I'll just keep plodding on and hope to see overall improvement.

 

Thanks again for your help.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

I don't think you're doing her any favors by saying this. For one thing, it sounds like it would be filed under "little adult assumption" in 1-2-3 Magic where adults try to talk to children like they are little adults. The book would probably advice you to cut down on the verbage. I'm guilty of this myself. As for loops... well, I still suffer from them from time to time. OCD waxes and wanes and logic doesn't always make a difference. Rather than talking about changing the subject, just change the subject. But before you do that... perhaps try to dig deeper to get to the root of the question thing. Yes, we know she wants reassurance... but what is the question? Is it a hygiene thing? A safety thing? Is there a recurring theme in the questions? Is she afraid to let go of items? Does she fear harming others? Just food for thought.

 

I was too embarrassed to explain things to my mom. There was this shirt in my drawer I refused to wear as a child because in my mind it was dirty. If she had pressed the matter and made me explain why then maybe I wouldn't have gone so long thinking some of the things I did. I still have OCD with germs/sanitation as an adult, but sometimes I think if Mom and Dad had intervened more it wouldn't have developed so much? A lot of it was learned behavior from a sibling I believe.

 

I read two books, but I can't remember both titles. The only one I can remember is likely irrelevant to the average OCD sufferer.

 

Hmmm, that's food for thought. Maybe I am doing that.

It's hard to know the right strategies to try, as all children are different and probably respond to different things.

Thanks for the input.

[chocolate-chip chooky]

Both my 6 and 4 year old do this. Is this more normal behaviour in younger children or

Should I be worried too?

 

Hi Ausmumof3. I'm an Aus mum of three also :)

 

I really have no idea where the lines are between 'normal', 'not so normal' and 'time to worry'.

I just know that my daughter's behaviours do impact on her day-to-day life enough for me to be questioning this, but not so much that I've hit the panic button. Yet.