How do you decide to keep a child in music lessons?

[pehp]

My son took piano lessons for the first time last year (he was 7; he turned 8 this summer).  Practice sessions, with me at his side, were very difficult most of the time.  He is easily frustrated and would melt down when he didn't get a piece perfect on the first try.  Lots of deep breathing, patience from me, and diligence from both of us got us through.  He excelled at piano.  Once he mastered a song, he HAD it.  He played at his recitals with no sheet music.  But his resistance to practice became epic, and I opted not to do summer lessons, against the advice of his music teacher, b/c I felt he needed a break.  (He also finished the first year course in March--something she said most kids don't do until autumn of their second year. So he really tackled it.  This is due in no small part to his mother being a good enforcer. :))

 

But lo, the practicing has been so hard.  I sometimes resort to pouring myself a glass of wine just to get through the frustration and tears!!

 

We had planned to have him continue lessons this year.  My husband in particular thinks that it would be good, and my son's piano teacher says he shows musical ability.  However, I'm the one in the trenches with the poor guy when he's struggling to master a song and crying, shrieking and generally being upset over his inability to get it right quickly. Once he DOES get it, he's fine.  

 

I am so torn about whether to continue this year.  I'm not a draconian parent.  I do not believe this is a place for character development (we do that via chores, not music!).  I have seen friends who were forced to take lessons turn into accomplished musicians who hate playing.  On the other hand, I was never forced, and I play moderately badly, but I LOVE to play songs.  I don't want to destroy any joy he has in music, but I also don't want to force something that is just going to be a daily ordeal. 

 

My son is torn also.  He hates practicing but says he wants to learn to play piano.  We keep telling him that practicing is the only way to get to that 'end' that he desires.  :)  I can't decide whether to keep going or to just take a year off (my mother-in-law's advice).  I have felt that perhaps a different way of learning would be better--his current lessons are very traditional, and I'd love for him to try Suzuki method.  But I can't find any Suzuki piano teachers within an hour's drive of us!

 

Any words of wisdom to share? 

[Arcadia]

My kids cry with any musical instrument because they are perfectionist. My oldest self taught piano and still cry.

I'll find out why before deciding if it is the method, kid need a year off lessons, or perfectionism at work.

For us, we pay for lessons as long as kids want to go. Our kids pick which instruments they want to self teach and which they want lessons for.

[Penelope]

Well, Suzuki probably needs MORE parental involvement, so I don't know if that's what you are looking for.

 

He might be on the cusp of taking over more of the practicing himself. Before or by nine, I haven't needed to sit with mine and remind them to do certain things very often.

 

I don't know whether I would take a year off or not. He will lose a lot of ground by taking a year off this early. But that's okay, too. Maybe some type of temporary rewards system for a practice without drama, to help him focus on his emotional reactions when he encounters something new. I understand not wanting to learn character from music, and agree. However, if perfectionism is the problem, that's not really going to change much in a year, IMO. There is always going to be something new in music that seems hard at first.

[pehp]

I am totally fine w/ parental involvement...I prefer it!  :) 

 

Perfectionism is definitely our issue.  With music.  With math. With spelling....etc.

[Orthodox6]

Never a happy thought to introduce; however, (based on family experiences) I wonder whether there are any "issues" underlying his personality and behaviour -- anxiety spectrum or similar.  Think about your son in other situations and look for any similarities.  If it seems like something might be at play, take a deep breath, don't be afraid, and investigate.

[MrsWeasley]

This sounds a lot like our house. First of all, I'd talk to your teacher about the struggles you have around practicing. I very much feel like the weekly lesson is there to teach me how to teacher my kids during the week, and if practice is going poorly, then obviously the lesson isn't working. Your teacher might just see a kid progressing rapidly and not understand that even though lessons go well, overall the relationship with the instrument isn't.

 

I hated my daughter's piano until we started slowing way, way down on how quickly progressed through pieces. My daughter pretty much never gets a whole new piece to freak out about not being able to play anymore. Review of old pieces takes the bulk of our practice time, with an expectation of being able to play all the review places from memory and a focus on musicality and expressiveness and integrating new techniques learned into old pieces. New pieces are very, very slowly doled out. As she's refining the last piece, she gets "previews" of the next piece. Each preview is a measure or two, most of the time in one hand only, that contains a teaching point of the song. When she's gotten through all the previews, we then work on playing each hand separately through. If she gets frustrated, we drop the new work and return to review, or if she's really frustrated, she will listen to her recordings of her pieces for the duration of practice. While this way takes much longer to progress, she ends up having a pretty large repertoire of pieces she can just sit down and play anywhere perfectly, which is really nice, but best of all, piano practice is generally pretty enjoyable. I'm not trying to raise the next Beethoven: it doesn't matter to me if she never can play Rondo Fantastique. I'm just hoping to preserve a good relationship with the instrument and with me.

[pehp]

Never a happy thought to introduce; however, (based on family experiences) I wonder whether there are any "issues" underlying his personality and behaviour -- anxiety spectrum or similar.  Think about your son in other situations and look for any similarities.  If it seems like something might be at play, take a deep breath, don't be afraid, and investigate.

 

Yes--I did fail to mention he's on the spectrum--extremely high-functioning (most people can't even tell).  A frustration-related meltdown definitely goes hand-in-hand with the ASD. 

[pehp]

Thanks! We have talked to the teacher (at the end of the spring semester) and she agreed that slowing down the pace would be very useful.  I have implemented the 'one measure at a time' learning approach since we started last year.  She didn't realize that practice sessions were such a struggle for us, and now that she has that knowledge she's definitely willing to work with us.  

 

One thing that I did today that kept us really happy was dividing practice session into TWO segments. We did one this morning before lunch and another before dinner.  This obviously takes more coordination from me (and I missed my workout, shoot!) but it seemed to work really well for my son.  He was way less annoyed and temperamental each time, and it allowed me to keep the session VERY short (we never really go more than 20 mins, so we only did about 10 each time, and it was good). No fatigue.   This, coupled with his teacher's help on slowing down progress (he starts lessons next week for the fall), may really make it more pleasant this year.

 

I hope.....

 

 

This sounds a lot like our house. First of all, I'd talk to your teacher about the struggles you have around practicing. I very much feel like the weekly lesson is there to teach me how to teacher my kids during the week, and if practice is going poorly, then obviously the lesson isn't working. Your teacher might just see a kid progressing rapidly and not understand that even though lessons go well, overall the relationship with the instrument isn't.

 

I hated my daughter's piano until we started slowing way, way down on how quickly progressed through pieces. My daughter pretty much never gets a whole new piece to freak out about not being able to play anymore. Review of old pieces takes the bulk of our practice time, with an expectation of being able to play all the review places from memory and a focus on musicality and expressiveness and integrating new techniques learned into old pieces. New pieces are very, very slowly doled out. As she's refining the last piece, she gets "previews" of the next piece. Each preview is a measure or two, most of the time in one hand only, that contains a teaching point of the song. When she's gotten through all the previews, we then work on playing each hand separately through. If she gets frustrated, we drop the new work and return to review, or if she's really frustrated, she will listen to her recordings of her pieces for the duration of practice. While this way takes much longer to progress, she ends up having a pretty large repertoire of pieces she can just sit down and play anywhere perfectly, which is really nice, but best of all, piano practice is generally pretty enjoyable. I'm not trying to raise the next Beethoven: it doesn't matter to me if she never can play Rondo Fantastique. I'm just hoping to preserve a good relationship with the instrument and with me.

 

[Orthodox6]

Yes--I did fail to mention he's on the spectrum--extremely high-functioning (most people can't even tell). A frustration-related meltdown definitely goes hand-in-hand with the ASD.

Same for my Asperger's adult son. Nobody ever would guess. His "behaviours" show up only when he is at home. Actually, to be honest, same holds true for me! (I have OCD/Asperger's.) I also am a musician; however, I landed on earth hardwired to be intensely devoted to instrumental music performance.

[basketcase]

We have benefitted from not spending all of our practice time on new pieces, as has been mentioned above. An ideal practice session for us would be starting with technique - and technique exercises that are actually easy enough for the student to focus on his/her technique, then working on specific parts of new pieces, then finishing with old repertoire that the student enjoys. We also include sight reading and theory as part of some sessions. For some of my children, improvisation and composition are very important. They like creating and feeling more in control at the piano, so we incorporate that, too.

 

One of the best things for my perfectionist pianist is that I sometimes work up difficult performance pieces myself. Even though he's heard me talk about it many times before, it's different for him to see and hear how someone else practices. I don't get a piece right and at full speed the first time or even the 50th. I work on a few bars at a time. I work hands separately. I work slowly.

 

I'd also say that your son is young. There is nothing wrong with coming back to it when he's a bit older. However, I'd recommend changing to a different set of piano method books, because he'll likely have to start again near the beginning. Edited to add: I mean that if you were to quit lessons and start again, you should then switch to a different method so that he doesn't feel like he's lost ground.

[SebastianCat]

My DD used to hate piano practice, but her teacher has also slowed down the pace of assignments and it has helped tremendously. She is 11, just started what will be her 6th year of piano, and says she never wants to stop playing. :). I never thought I'd hear that from her. She has even added guitar this year too.

 

Does your DS work well with a timer? Would emphasizing the time put into practice, rather than the level of perfection, help? Maybe if the directive came from the teacher like, "Johnny, this piece will probably the you 2 or 3 weeks to master. I want you to spend just 15 minutes per day working on it, with a timer, then stop for the day.". It might be worth brainstorming some ideas with the teacher. Steady progress toward a goal that can't be immediately obtained is a skill that would translate to many other life situations.

[Donna]

My dd began instrument study as a perfectionist. She still is to some degree but initially, she baulked (talking about anything that popped in her head and/or rolling on the carpet were her MO) when introduced to anything she considered difficult....ie. anything she could not do on the first attempt.

 

Like you, I broke practice into very short sessions. When she was about your son's age, it helped her to have a list we wrote together consisting of everything she wanted to accomplish each session so she had a definite end point to her practices. When learning a new piece there were always "preview" sections (usually the more difficult passages or those containing a new skill) and these were practiced separately (did liked using an abacus to count 100 times or more) before she started learning the rest of the piece. We broke difficult skills down into small easily accomplished tasks and often I made them into a game.

 

My mantra to her was " We practice to make things easier." whenever she became frustrated.

 

If your son wants to play piano, I would not make him quit. Slowing down, playing only review pieces for awhile, doing a lot of listening to piano music, playing games during practice sessions (Helping Parents Practice by Ed Sprunger is full of ideas on games if you don't think you are creative) might be worth a try. You might also try to end each practice session at or before, preferably, the slightest sign of frustration and do something nice together after to break the association of practice being a negative thing...a cup of hot cocoa, a snack, read a book together, play a quick card or board game, whatever might be a treat for him (a snuggle worked here).

[KSinNS]

Amen to all the above. Music can actually be a great spot to work on self-regulation for spectrum kids. We work a lot on listening to yourself, taking breaks, and all that has translated into schoolwork as well. "There are no practice related emergencies" is a mantra here. For your own entertainment, I always see this in my head during the various practice-related emergencies:

 

 

Good luck! I have to say, music has been one of the most beneficial things for my son. It seemed to really help his language, has created many social opportunities through ensembles and orchestras, and has given him a chance to really shine. He totally loves music, and it has kind of taken over his life, but in the best possible way. Right now, we're working on playing expressively, not easy for him, but it's starting to come. 

[BlsdMama]

I am totally fine w/ parental involvement...I prefer it!   :)

 

Perfectionism is definitely our issue.  With music.  With math. With spelling....etc.

 

I can't advise you on the piano.  If it is was in my budget every kiddo I had would be in piano until teens. ;)

 

BUT, I can tell you perfectionism is not necessarily bad.  

Perfectionism is the result of a kid who puts high demands on himself, falls short, and is frustrated with himself.

 

However, if I were to change this around it would be this: I have a kid who aims high, strives hard, often falls short of his personal goals, and gets frustrated with himself.

That doesn't sound nearly as bad as "perfectionism," instead it actually sounds like a kid with great character, doesn't it?

 

I'd plan to have a pep talk before things:  "You work so hard and I really admire it.  But you know, you always want to hit it out of the ballpark at your first at bat.  It doesn't work like that.  Today you're going to do (insert Lesson 42 of Saxon, a piano piece, whatever) and you're going to make mistakes and feel frustrated, and I want you to tell yourself that it's okay and you'll keep working until you get it."  And then I'd let him soak in his tears and not address it.  

 

And I'd give that same talk each day.  (Probably until he's 20.)

My oldest two have perfectionistic tendencies. Frankly they are awesome, awesome kids.  Life is easier for my third who is a bit more laid back and chill, that's true.  But I admire ALL of their characteristics - her ability to push herself even though that's not her personality and their ability to force themselves back from the edge of utter frustration when they can't do something just right.  And that ability to step back from the edge did NOT come when they were eight..... It was repeated try, fail, and try again, then the slow path to success.  But their work ethic was trained through this and honestly, their character is better for it!  

[wintermom]

Great thread!  Some really helpful advice and ideas here.  I've got 4 dc in music lessons and I sit in on every lesson and support the dc's practices as well. I learn so much from sitting in on the lessons about how the teacher supports my child while they are learning a new song - and the method is often different for each child depending on their individual strengths. I have a 15 and 11 year old taking violin and a 13 and 9 year old doing classical guitar. Both teachers are wonderful at limiting the frustration level of the student in various ways:

 

- slow down the tempo

- listen and watch the teacher play the difficult part of the song

- clap the rhythm

- sing the melody

- isolate the difficult 2 bars, for example, and do a "5 times challenge" playing those 2 bars 5 times

- focus on only one aspect of the music (e.g., correct fingering, correct notes, posture, dynamics, rhythm) instead of 3 or 4

 

There are lots of other frustration decreasing, "practice with success" strategies. You've already discovered that doing 2 shorter practice sessions works well. Sometimes the time of day makes a difference, sometimes being well-fed is the key. 

 

All the best in the musical journey of your son and yourself as a parent! It's really worth the time and effort in so many ways.

[Orthodox6]

Amen to all the above. Music can actually be a great spot to work on self-regulation for spectrum kids. We work a lot on listening to yourself, taking breaks, and all that has translated into schoolwork as well. "There are no practice related emergencies" is a mantra here. For your own entertainment, I always see this in my head during the various practice-related emergencies:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eneNtW-lVhE

 

Good luck! I have to say, music has been one of the most beneficial things for my son. It seemed to really help his language, has created many social opportunities through ensembles and orchestras, and has given him a chance to really shine. He totally loves music, and it has kind of taken over his life, but in the best possible way. Right now, we're working on playing expressively, not easy for him, but it's starting to come.

My boys all are in their twenties, and they still break out singing this song!

[...................]

I would also mention this to your teacher.  We had tears here in August, and the teacher adjusted immediately.  Knowing my dd is a hard working student with a parent who does try to enforce, she assigns less new songs and more review, scales, etc.  This has not made practice a walk in the park, but at least there are no tears.