Aaaand... never mind about pre-school.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

So we decided to put our 3 year old in a 2hr, 2x a week because she is refusing to speak French and we thought more exposure would motivate her. (long story, but her paediatrician has diagnosed her with selective mutism).  We are one parent one language, living in a French speaking country, which has worked for our two bigger kids to be perfectly bilingual.  

 

I brought her to her first class on Tuesday.  To get in, we had to be buzzed through two locked doors.  There was a third door separating the shoe-to-slipper/backpack/jacket drop off area from the classroom area, parents not allowed in the classroom area.  The only child there that could understand French was my daughter!  All the others were going there to be exposed to it before entering school age.  She was also the only child not screaming and having to be ripped from their mothers in order to get into the classroom.  

 

I did leave her there, her summery of the afternoon was "It was fun!  I played kitchen toys then some boy pushed me.  And we washed our hands."  So she wasn't traumatised or anything.  But after discussing with DH, we once again came to the conclusion that... we can do better- a lot better- at home.  

 

I didn't want to send her.  I feel like the blockage about speaking French will go away on its own.  And yet I still managed to doubt myself and sign her up.  Argh!  

 

 

[Tress]

I'm really glad she enjoyed the afternoon! To be frank, I would have expected a child with selective mutism to have trouble with something like this, so it's great that she didn't!

 

I understand your frustration with the situation, we have the same sort of situation in the Netherlands.

A friend of mine has a little boy with some sort of speech delay and she had to send him to a special playgroup....which was filled with children who needed to learn Dutch, sigh.

 

Maybe there is another way to motivate her to speak French, some informal playgroup or story time, or something?

[Joyofsixreboot]

Live and learn. Go with your gut :grouphug:

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I'm really glad she enjoyed the afternoon! To be frank, I would have expected a child with selective mutism to have trouble with something like this, so it's great that she didn't!

 

I understand your frustration with the situation, we have the same sort of situation in the Netherlands.

A friend of mine has a little boy with some sort of speech delay and she had to send him to a special playgroup....which was filled with children who needed to learn Dutch, sigh.

 

Maybe there is another way to motivate her to speak French, some informal playgroup or story time, or something?

 

Yes, her mutism is so strange.  She loves talking to daddy- he speaks to her in French and she responds happily in English.  She is not particularly shy, she just will NOT speak French.  She understands it with no problems.  We spend a lot of time outside and we have a lot of kids in our buildings, so she does play with French speakers every day, but if it can't be communicated with an "mmhmm" for yes or an "unhun" for no, she just won't bother.  :-)  Similarly, she has never said her own first name.  She flat out refuses, and cannot be bribed or punished into either saying her name or speaking in French.  

 

I sent my son to the same pre-school for about 6 months when he was 2.5, back before we had decided to homeschool.  It was in a different location, and had a totally different feel to it.  Very "small town local", very informal, very few French language learners.  I was picturing this when I signed her up, but apparently when they moved it, they also totally changed the program.  I was supposed to have a tour last week but the director was sick, so I didn't get a tour.  So all the locked doors and strict drop off/pick up routine sort of shocked me!

 

I do think she'll just wake up and start speaking French.  I can see her wanting to, but not quite willing yet.  I just need to constantly remind myself to give her time.  She's not going to be 20 and still not speaking French!  lol.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My 13 year old had selective mutism.  In my dd's case it was related to anxiety, not any language ability or processing issue.  She has gotten better with age as she's learned ways of coping with her anxiety   http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/SelectiveMutism/    I don't know if it is coincidental or not but my dd is also incredibly stubborn and trying to force her to speak did not work well, but caused her to dig her heels in more.  She would speak more though if no one was looking directly at her.  She had a very hard time being "put in the spotlight" for anything as that increased her anxiety.  

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

My 13 year old had selective mutism.  In my dd's case it was related to anxiety, not any language ability or processing issue.  She has gotten better with age as she's learned ways of coping with her anxiety   http://www.asha.org/public/speech/disorders/SelectiveMutism/    I don't know if it is coincidental or not but my dd is also incredibly stubborn and trying to force her to speak did not work well, but caused her to dig her heels in more.  She would speak more though if no one was looking directly at her.  She had a very hard time being "put in the spotlight" for anything as that increased her anxiety.  

Yes, you pretty much exactly described my dd.  She is VERY stubborn, but only about her mutism.  We took her to the paediatrician, who called a speech pathologist and then a psychiatrist, who both felt that although an unusual presentation, it was definitely selective mutism.  She also won't speak to strangers, but none of my kids would speak to anyone outside of the family before age 4-5 or so, so I never worried about that.  We tried for a few weeks to force her, and it was horrible, which is why I took her to the paediatrician.  I love our paediatrician, as he basically said to just stop worrying about it, and it would start when it would start and forcing would cause her to dig her heels in harder.

 

What encourages me is that she also refused outright to sing nursery songs or do hand motion songs (like Wheels on the Bus, etc.), though she liked to hear them.  Recently she decided to do the hand motions, but insisted I turn away from her so I couldn't see her do them.  And now she is not only doing the motions, but singing along and allowing me to see her do them.  I think some of the mutism may be related to performance anxiety and/or perfectionism.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, on the performance anxiety and perfectionism.  Dd still does not like things like discussion (which makes homeschooling challenging sometimes - and makes me have to rethink how to do things with her) but she is so much better than she was when she was smaller.  At one point though I just explained to her that when she shut down completely when someone said "hi" to her that it actually put more focus on her because then the people stop and look wanting to know why she isn't responding.  I think she was around 8 when I explained this?  Anyway, that actually helped because it motivated her to have some normal interaction just to stop the scrutiny!  But I don't think she can control all of it - it just happened that in this case, she was able to think things through in a way that worked for her.  

[Kathryn]

Are there parks/playgrounds around with French-speaking children? Maybe she would speak to other children at the playground in order to play with them?

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Are there parks/playgrounds around with French-speaking children? Maybe she would speak to other children at the playground in order to play with them?

Yes, lots, and she happily plays with other kids, just won't talk to them.  She will make an affirmative grunt or a no grunt, but that's about it!

[Anne in CA]

Second guessing my self has caused most of my parenting/ home schooling mistakes I would like to do over, lol. You are far from alone. Enjoy your baby at home!

[Kathryn]

Yes, lots, and she happily plays with other kids, just won't talk to them. She will make an affirmative grunt or a no grunt, but that's about it!

Well, there goes my idea!

[Tap]

I wonder if the fact that the other kids are learning French, which she already understands, would actually help her with the anxiety?  She would be the more knowledgeable one in that environment, vs at home, where she is the student.

 

She would see other kids haven't mastered the language  like dad has, and she may be more open to try speaking , without the internal pressure to be perfect.  Kids pick things up pretty fast when it comes to languages so it may not be long before the group is more fluent. While it may not be your ideal environment for her today, that doesn't necessarily mean it is not the right place for her.  

 

 

 

I have a few friends who grew up in bilingual households and while they completely understand both languages, they primarily speak only one. One common thing I hear them say, is that they understand what is being said the second language, but not the individual words so much. One friend says she can only speak in phrases, because she doesn't really know how to change words in sentences so that it makes sense to her. She is Filipino, raised by 1st generation Filipino parents.  Her extended family always speaks Filipino (I don't know what the language is called- Tagalog maybe?) in groups due to the elders. She can understand just fine, but has limited skills in speaking it and definitely can not read or write it. Most of these friends have doctorate degrees, so it isn't aptitude, it is just how their brains processed the information at a young age. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dh understands Tagalog but doesn't speak it.  But that's because his parents wanted him to practice in English, the language of the country where they were trying to assimilate.  (This was before some of the more modern ideas of trying to keep both languages.)  He just has a harder time forming the words.  I think that can be especially hard when someone is a perfectionist because you might start out with an accent.  I absolutely hate it when I haven't spoken Japanese in a while and I start to speak with an American accent!  

 

I spoke English inside and Japanese outside.  I was always about 6 months behind the neighbors in my language acquisition.  So at first all the kids my age would say "bup bu" (like "beep beep") for car but then switched to the real noun "kuruma" ("car" in English) then I would slowly realize that no one was still saying what I was, and then I would start to say the new word. . .   

 

 

 

[Corraleno]

Yes, you pretty much exactly described my dd.  She is VERY stubborn, but only about her mutism.  We took her to the paediatrician, who called a speech pathologist and then a psychiatrist, who both felt that although an unusual presentation, it was definitely selective mutism.  She also won't speak to strangers, but none of my kids would speak to anyone outside of the family before age 4-5 or so, so I never worried about that.  We tried for a few weeks to force her, and it was horrible, which is why I took her to the paediatrician.  I love our paediatrician, as he basically said to just stop worrying about it, and it would start when it would start and forcing would cause her to dig her heels in harder.

 

What encourages me is that she also refused outright to sing nursery songs or do hand motion songs (like Wheels on the Bus, etc.), though she liked to hear them.  Recently she decided to do the hand motions, but insisted I turn away from her so I couldn't see her do them.  And now she is not only doing the motions, but singing along and allowing me to see her do them.  I think some of the mutism may be related to performance anxiety and/or perfectionism.

 

That's exactly what I was going to say. Some kids just will not "perform" in public until they know they can perform that task without significant mistakes. I think it's especially true of really bright kids, because they can clearly see the gap between between their own skill level and what a "correct" performance looks like, so they resist being forced to "perform badly" (as they see it).

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I wonder if the fact that the other kids are learning French, which she already understands, would actually help her with the anxiety? She would be the more knowledgeable one in that environment, vs at home, where she is the student.

 

She would see other kids haven't mastered the language like dad has, and she may be more open to try speaking , without the internal pressure to be perfect. Kids pick things up pretty fast when it comes to languages so it may not be long before the group is more fluent. While it may not be your ideal environment for her today, that doesn't necessarily mean it is not the right place for her.

 

 

 

I have a few friends who grew up in bilingual households and while they completely understand both languages, they primarily speak only one. One common thing I hear them say, is that they understand what is being said the second language, but not the individual words so much. One friend says she can only speak in phrases, because she doesn't really know how to change words in sentences so that it makes sense to her. She is Filipino, raised by 1st generation Filipino parents. Her extended family always speaks Filipino (I don't know what the language is called- Tagalog maybe?) in groups due to the elders. She can understand just fine, but has limited skills in speaking it and definitely can not read or write it. Most of these friends have doctorate degrees, so it isn't aptitude, it is just how their brains processed the information at a young age.

 

That's a good point! We are about to start a parent-child "French intensive" class provided by the local school for kids in her age group (1 year out from mandatory school age) where she will be with other French learners, maybe it will help build her confidence.