Bunch of nothing

[PeterPan]

This is just a bunch of nothing, but I just want to talk here or whine a second or something.

 

How am I supposed to bring a child into my world and educate him when he's SO driven on his own passion?  And I KNOW we're supposed to harness his passion.  I'm all for it.  I've read Just Give Him the Whale and I'm there.  I'm cool with history via passion, science and lit via passion, etc.  But the thing is, sometimes I think it's his *IQ* that's driving the intensity and NOT that he couldn't be interested in other things.  That's what I'm saying.  Like today, he keeps going I'm bored, I'm bored, and I keep replying no you're not, your name is xyz.  (because of course that's his name and that's how my brain processes)

 

I'm saying I think his IQ is making his need so intense that then, when he can't satisfy it a healthy way, he takes it out with his obsession and the only way he knows how, kwim?  And admittedly, we've gotten REALLY out of sync.  My FIL was terminal with cancer and passed last week, and things have just been haphazard and crazy.  We outsourced his care to people who could handle him who would help, and he has just been shuffled.  We had to put away a lot, and on a level it's really nice to have that stuff put away, kwim?  But with that stuff put away, he isn't able to fall into it and busy himself and his mind.

 

But furthermore, what I'm pondering is whether maybe, in my worries over inappropriate grade leveling, I haven't really facilitated him properly.  Like maybe I SHOULD get him some textbooks on audio for his kindle?  Or set him up with something more formal?  We currently do interest-driven buffet.

 

My dd tells me it was so frustrating to her to be bored and say she was bored and me not get it.  So obviously I have to do something about it.  But once he gets that way, it's so INTENSE.  So then I was trying to do things with him (things in general he likes), and it was no I just need to go make (insert passion), why don't you help me make (insert passion), all I want to do is (insert passion).   :banghead:   That's the head-whomping emoticon, right?  Like seriously, it's the problem I can't win!  So I got him to chill a bit and work with me, and then he got all cool and happy.  

 

Like I said, probably no resolution.  It was just all weird and convoluted, like he was so driven and needed the interaction but couldn't accept it.  Wacky.

[wapiti]

You might want to x-post on the accelerated board.  There are a few people there who will understand about feeding the beast of the passion.

 

(I don't have much to say.  I might start with youtube and go from there, but it depends on the subject that is the passion du jour.)

[kbutton]

Like I said, probably no resolution.  It was just all weird and convoluted, like he was so driven and needed the interaction but couldn't accept it.  Wacky.

 

The ASD/gifted conundrum. You have to get him to accept it before he needs it so badly that he can't accept it, and then you need to help him see that accepting it helped. Then, he needs to learn to be willing to take it in the future. Finally, he needs to learn to take it himself in the future as part of self-care.

 

I had to be really in my son's face about cause and effect, self-regulatory things, and it's still a work in progress. 

 

Any stress exacerbates it, including good, happy stress (having a friend over, etc.).

 

On the passions... I think it is possible to let them take over a kid rather have them harnessed for learning. It's like the difference between you walking the dog and the dog walking you. My son has serial/concurrent interests--enough for any human with more possibilities everyday (gifted wide-ranging interests added to special interest). There are certain interests that we don't really encourage until we're sure he can learn to walk that dog. This started very early, pre-diagnosis, when we just had a sense that he was all out of proportion with some things, and we all would suffer if it stayed that way. We've seen (in hindsight) that we were right on target about those areas where we hesitated to introduce certain things too early.

 

Maybe you can work these interests and needs into a framework of Zones of Regulation, but one that you do for him for now. I had to do that a lot when my ASD kiddo was younger. I had to regulate him and make those tough calls. 

[texasmama]

I agree with wapiti.

 

Also, he seems to be severely 2E.  So he is very gifted and also with multiple LD's and ASD.  That is a lot going on, and he will be the very definition of asynchronous for, most likely, a lifetime.

 

My hardest kid to parent as a little one (the age of your ds) has been my very gifted kid with no LD's.  His intellect outpaced his emotional maturity by so much that he was constantly in a tizzy, and none of us could help him sort it out.  It had to sort itself out with time and maturity.  Today, he rattled off a string of 22 numbers to his brother (USPS tracking for a game he ordered).  I asked him how he knew it.  He said he looked at it twice, memorized it, and then woke up thinking of it.  How can a kid as young as your ds deal with that sort of stuff going on in his brain?  It is not "normal".  There is no roadmap for that.  I just gave him a lot of space until he got older and more mature and was able to manage it himself.  He went through periods of angst and what looked like minor depression.  His mind was restless.  Remember that this is my kid with no LD's or other issues.  He is just very gifted.  He is pretty happy now that he has free reign to watch war documentaries, make furniture in the garage, climb trees while watching Twilight Zone episodes, run the riding mower around our acreage, and self-teach AoPS Algebra.  He just needed some time to get there.

 

I don't know if any of that is useful, but it is what I intuitively responded to when I read your "bunch of nothing".   :)

 

ETA:  Kbutton and I were posting at the same time.  Good stuff from a different perspective there.

[PeterPan]

This is helping.  Someone wrote me privately and suggested he's processing what he saw and experienced the last two weeks.  See that's even a curiosity to me, to get into his brain and know what he's processing or feeling.  He hasn't seemed emotionally connected to the experience at all, and yet he has been more attentive to his grandma (asking to visit, asking to spend the night, etc.), which would indicate he seems to think he cheers her up.  He commented that he can finally spend the night now that his grandpa is gone.   :blink:   We just thought he was oblivious and processing/feeling nothing (because he has said nothing about it).  Like NOTHING.  

 

Kbutton, thank you, I think that's a healthy way to sort it out.  You're right that I had gone sort of b&w on it, like we're either all in on the obsession or not enough.  But to say it's ok unless it's unhealthy and that we can reign back the unhealthy, that's a good thought process.  And maybe going back to his obsession IS a way of processing the last two weeks, and that's fine too.  

 

He's better tonight, btw.  He finally came into my world a bit and did things with me, and then he spent time with his grandma.  His drive on that has been oddly strong.  Normally she's just a tool for cookies and a good time.  Maybe it's that he is in fact processing, dunno.  

 

So if any of you lost someone, how did your ASD dc process it?  It would be just an uncommon scenario, so maybe there are no tidy answers.  He just SEEMED so oblivious that we assumed it wasn't affecting him. We tried to normalize things for him, so we just assumed that was the only effect, that the actual emotions of it were going over his head and being missed by him.

 

It hadn't occurred to me till tonight to google it, but, duh, there are resources for this.  https://www.autismspeaks.org/family-services/resource-library/bereavement-and-grief-resources

[texasmama]

At his age, he will not process the death as permanent.  Being ASD, he will not likely face the emotions head-on because they are too strong and difficult. He will be reacting to the changes in his routine, the grief of the people around him, and the ongoing emotional disorganization he feels from you, dh, and others.  My ASD kid was almost 6 when my mother died, and he told me that he was sorry.  We just lost my dh's grandmother who was living with us, and my kids seemed largely unaffected.  She was very old with advanced Alzheimer's, so it was easier to let her go.

 

I think the ASD kids become easily overwhelmed by things with emotional content and are more likely to just go underground with it anyway, and most kids are not able to process a death at 6.  It is still a very concrete stage, and death is abstract.

 

Go easy on yourself, him, and everyone else right now.   :grouphug:

[texasmama]

Also, kids this age are very egocentric (even the most NT kids) so they are all about how things will affect them.  This is normal and appropriate in this age group.

[PeterPan]

Thanks, that's confirming what I'm thinking as I read there and another good link.  https://kidsaid.com/dougypage.html And it's sort of hard getting him back into his routine, because *we* aren't there emotionally.  We've been wiped out, and we have some new responsibilities that seem a little overwhelming.  So it's lots of changes for us too, sigh, a new normal.  

 

If it weren't for your "be easy with yourselves" comment, I'd think I had to work gung-ho to get back.  But maybe going gently back will do.  And I think what I'll do is give him a picture of himself with his grandpa to see if he wants to do anything with it or processes it.  If there is any of that going on, it might be useful.  Or like when my grandpa died, I couldn't bear to have a picture of him around.  It still makes me cry.  Whew.  

 

So yup, I think we've just got the convergence here of everything.  

[texasmama]

Slow and gentle is the way to go. I was dh's grandmother's primary caretaker. It has taken me every bit of six weeks to slowly reenter life. There is a new normal. That is as it should be. Our kids lack the skills, experience and maturity to process these experiences.

[Lecka]

http://www.amazon.com/How-People-Autism-Grieve-Help/dp/1849059543/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1437825721&sr=8-1&keywords=autism+grief

 

I read this book from the library.  Interesting.  

 

I agree, too -- it is a big change, you can take it slow.  

 

I also think there have been societies (or are) where there is a longer formal grieving period, and I think there is a reason for that.  It does not go away so fast.  I am glad we are not required to wear a black arm band for so many days, or wear black for so many days, while we are in mourning, but I think the idea makes sense.  

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

Definitely give yourselves some time.  Routine and stability and equilibrium will return with time.

[texasmama]

If you want a book to help process, The Tenth Good Thing about Barney is a classic children's book on grief.  Barney is a cat so the situation is a bit removed, but it works very, very well to help normalize the grief process for younger kids like your ds.

 

I agree with Lecka.  Americans do a very poor job of managing grief.  Almost every other culture does a better job. I like how the primitive cultures handle it.  Even in Mexico, people wail and throw themselves on the ground, but we have to be so "put together", and that is inappropriate and does a disservice to all involved.

 

A significant loss will change you.  My advice is to let it.  :grouphug:

[kbutton]

My kids have been through the deaths of great-grandparents who they were not super close to (they were not in great health, and my kids were really young). When the other two greats pass, it will probably be a much bigger deal--they know them a lot better, and they are older now.

 

They also had to deal with the loss of a neighbor child via cancer (they had been rocky friendship neighbors and hadn't lived there for all that long). That was harder for both of them. My ASD kiddo didn't grieve the same as my younger child. He'd been bullied at times by the kids, and that added an element of uncertainty in how to process things. He was edgy until he knew that the boy who died had an outlook on the afterlife that would compatible with our beliefs, and then he showed pronounced, physical relief (body posture, less tense) at the idea that the boy who died is likely in heaven. Neither of my boys went to this child's funeral (they did to the great-grandparents').

 

My ASD son also had to process the death of a classmate's father. He had been very close friends with the little girl (they are a LOT alike) in Kindergarten before all the kids started going off into boy groups and girl groups. She wanted to come to school when it happened, and he was the first or one of the first people she told in person in the hall before the teacher told the class. She seemed as awkward as my son about it, and he behaved awkwardly back but I think sensitively (2nd grade). My son wouldn't go to the funeral--I think he'd have been totally overwhelmed. Very few kids came, actually, and not as many people from school as I would've hoped.

 

In the last two cases, I noticed that all of the kids close to the situation were somewhat detached, though some had bouts of emotion. They were all eventually in support groups, and those groups focused on tangible things to help them process (the siblings of the boy who died were given positive, concrete things to do during hospice as well). The parents were told to not expect the kids to grieve the same way as adults at all.

 

Those are just observations to give you some kind of framework. I still feel like my kids haven't seen a lot of death, but maybe more than some kids have. 

[merry gardens]

(((Hugs)))

My condolences and prayers on the loss of your FIL.

 

Besides all the processing he may be doing related to his grandfather, if your DS was being cared for by others for the past several weeks, they may have been entertaining him and introducing him to novelty. Now you're settling back into "normal" life. Except it's not normal because his grandfather is no longer there and it's summer so your homeschooling probably isn't like usual either.

 

And summer might be another reason for his c/o boredom. When I was a kid, towards the end of summer, my little life started to feel a bit boring. In fact, right now even though we're still doing some school it's not intense and I'm feeling (almost) ready to get back to more intense work.

 

You're going through a time of transition, recovery and rest.

[PeterPan]

Thank you all for your thoughts.  You hit a lot of things right on the head and I'm processing them.

[Lecka]

http://www.amazon.com/Alfie-Birthday-Surprise-Shirley-Hughes/dp/0099208628/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&qid=1437870284&sr=8-23&keywords=shirley+hughes+alfie This is kind-of a weird book, but my kids like it.  They like Alfie anyway when they have been the right ages (so far lol -- my oldest son and my daughter have both liked Alfie at least).  The neighbor's cat dies and the dad is really upset about it, but he is just grumpy.  That is my summary.  But my 2 kids and I liked this book at least.  It is way above the level of my ASD son right now, but I think he will like it in a couple of years.  He is running 2-3 years behind my daughter right now in his taste in books, so I think he will be there in a little bit.  

 

But separately -- my ASD son had a tooth pulled earlier this year and it was supposed to be no big deal (a long story here, involving his gum being split also, ugh ugh ugh) but the x-ray did not show the root being as long as it was when it was pulled.  (I asked for it to be pulled b/c the x-ray "showed" it was almost out, and if he wiggled his tooth it would re-split his gum and that would be bad, too).  

 

But it was painful to him for about 2 weeks.  

 

But now in good news -- and I am actually really thankful for this -- now I know how (or one way how) he acts when he is in pain physically.  

 

Before this there have been times when I have really wondered.  

 

But now I have got a very clear connection:  I know he was hurting, and I know he was acting like this.  

 

So -- to some extent, now you know how he acts when he is upset and processing things in some background way (maybe), or now you know how he acts when his parents are (very understandably and part-of-life-ly) upset, or now you know how he acts when his routine is disrupted.  Or you know some combination of these things.  

 

Maybe you don't know everything ahead of time -- but this is all going to be helpful information going forward.  

 

And it is a huge load off my mind, honestly, to know certain things my son did while his poor little mouth was really hurting.  Now I know those are things he does when he is hurting.  

 

With all the possibilities of vague stomach problems etc. or ear problems etc. it is a huge load off my mind in a lot of ways.  

 

Not that he would not change with age, but at least I have a huge number of clues now.  

[Lecka]

My son is sometimes unable to express he is in pain, he has a harder time when the pain is worse.  

 

So I am not surprised about a child not expressing his loss in an obvious way.  

 

But I think you do just get to know your child, but when something has never happened before, all you can do is see what happens.  

 

But something I do know is, if it seems like something would hurt, and he is acting certain ways (that are not expressing pain in a usual way), then he is most likely in pain but not able to express it in the usual ways.  

 

We also taught him to say "ow" and "boo boo" and "owie" and "my _____ hurts" in ABA.  Before ABA he did not know how to say these things (and we prompted him to say it when we saw him get hurt, for a while, which helped him a lot).  Now he does know how, but he does not do it so good when he is in more pain or when it is a diffuse pain instead of "something just happened."  He does best when he has just had a bump -- then he can say "ow" and he can say "I hurt my ______."  And "my ____ hurts."  But he has a harder time anytime it is not that exact situation (like -- he has just fallen or bumped or whatever and just gotten a bump ----- it does not automatically mean he can say his stomach hurts, but he can sometimes, but I do not think he can say it every time).  

 

But this is an area where I have a mindset (b/c this is how the ABLLS is and my son does the ABLLS ---- just in general) where you rank something from easiest to hardest and simplest to more complex.  

 

So "an obvious bump" is easier and simpler than "his mouth hurts but it just started hurting, nothing so obvious as a bump or fall."

 

I also had my son refusing to take Tylenol b/c (as I figured out after 2 days with the help of his resource teacher at school) he really, really wanted red cherry Tylenol and I had gotten clear (stain-free) grape Tylenol (or possibly generic aspirin).  So he wanted Tylenol but for whatever reason he only wanted a certain kind that he knew had made him feel better another time and he was not ready for a brand change.  

 

He was saying something that made sense to his teacher even though it didn't make sense to me.  

 

But that is how we figure things out!   

[PeterPan]

Lecka, that's a very involved topic, and you're right we did learn some things.  I had not thought through it quite in that way.  

[mamashell]

nm

[Heathermomster]

OhE, your FIL has been buried a week maybe? Prior to that, your family was turned sideways dealing with hospice and funeral arrangements, and lots and lots of emotion. Humans don't work like a light switch where they can turn things on and off at will. I expect your son's normal day to day living has been confusing and upsetting all at once, and ASD or not, I don't expect he has the maturity to deal with his feelings. You and your DH are vulnerable, tired, overwhelmed, and sad. Your DH lost his father.

 

You sound like you handled your boy well. I expect he wanted attention from you. The things that he wanted and was never pleased with were just things. You were the constant in that scenario, and he calmed down.

[PeterPan]

Michele, my FIL died and my ds has been out of character, even for himself.  That's what I was struggling with.  I was having trouble interpreting what was going on.

 

Heather, yes, that's what we're working on, getting back to that connected point.  He was stimming a lot in church today.  We resume OT later this week, so hopefully that will get that under control.  So I'm trying to get us back into our regular things, and I'm starting the more involved STNR exercises in the Stopping ADHD book to see what those will do for him.  It says you have to do them *8 months* so that's blowing my mind and overwhelming me.

 

A lot has changed for us, and ds is processing it in ways we hadn't anticipated.  We're going to survive.  It's just a change, and some of that change is on-going as we care more for our MIL.  Somehow ds is picking up, not only on the changes with us and the changes to his life, but changes with her.  He's being unusual with her too, unusual in a good way.  So I think we just have to work on it gently and get through it, working intentionally on those connections and stability.

[OneStepAtATime]

Hugs and good luck OhE.

[Tiramisu]

I'm just reminded how our therapist told us that kids and pets are the emotional barometers of the home.

 

Hang in there!