MamaBearTeacher Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Are these languages related in some way? If so which came first ie. which influenced the other? When would this have happened in history? I assume that the two civilizations would have intermingled in order for the languages to have influenced each other. I googled this and could not really find anything that answered my question exactly. I had just read that the first part of the word Freedom comes from both German and Sanskrit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 There is some information here (U of Texas) and here (IndianExpress news site). Indo European Languages Family Tree. You might like Ellen McHenry's Excavating English...she briefly touches on this relationship between the Indo European languages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Are these languages related in some way? If so which came first ie. which influenced the other? When would this have happened in history? I assume that the two civilizations would have intermingled in order for the languages to have influenced each other. I googled this and could not really find anything that answered my question exactly. I had just read that the first part of the word Freedom comes from both German and Sanskrit. My South Asian linguistics class was many, many years ago!! The short answer is yes - they are part of a language family known as Indo-Eurpopean (earlier known as Indo-Germanic.) This wikipedia link has a fairly good discussion about the language group! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages#Modern-day_distribution_of_Indo-European_languages 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Neither "came first". That's like asking which came first, humans or chimps? Both evolved from the same common ancestor, in this case, Indo-European. (Well, actually, I suppose Sanskrit is technically older than modern German, being a more or less dead language, but there were people already speaking Germanic languages when Sanskrit was currently spoken, it just wasn't the German people speak today.) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Yes. Here is something that appeared in NY Times a few years ago: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/08/24/science/indo-european-languages-originated-in-anatolia-analysis-suggests.html?referrer=&_r=0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quark Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You might also like to research the "Aryans". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaBearTeacher Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 What I am understanding from all this is that the two languages are related in that they both come from the same big family of languages but that German is no more related to Sanskrit than ie. Italian or English. Tanaqui, are you saying that there was a language a long time ago "Indo-European" from which all the Indo-European languages evolved. when would this language have been spoken? In prehistoric times? Did it start in what is now India? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Proto-Indo-European The most widely accepted theory has this language emerging in the western steppe of Asia around 4000 BCE. The hypothetical reconstruction of proto languages is absolutely fascinating. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd recommend reading The Loom of Language by Frederick Bodmer. This rambling book takes on many tasks, including offering a method to learn many languages easily. For me the most fascinating part was the author showing how languages developed across Europe from a Proto Indo-European root. Really fascinating (if you like this sort of thing). Published in 1944, there are some dated elements from an author who dreamed of world peace at the height of WWII. Good stuff. Bill 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Tanaqui, are you saying that there was a language a long time ago "Indo-European" from which all the Indo-European languages evolved. That's what we think. We've actually reconstructed a great deal of it - that's the Proto-Indo-European that a previous poster mentioned. Proto means we're guessing* at what the words were, we don't know 100%. Yes, it was spoken in prehistoric times. The wiki links on this subject are pretty good - I'd start there. Linguistics is utterly fascinating, isn't it? * Not guessing like we're trying to figure out Rumpelstiltskin's name, guessing like we're trying to win a game of Clue and we have nearly all the information already. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 According to my linguistics text: Sanskrit and German are Proto-Indo-European languages. Germanic languages is one major branch. Modern German is way down on a limb. Sanskrit comes off the Indian branch, which then branches into Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, and Romany. "Indo-European is believed to have originated with a group of people known to archaeologists as the Kurgan Culture. They probably lived in a geographic region north of the Caspian Sea, in today's Ukraine, some five to seven thousand years ago." Kurgans were semi-nomadic, a late stone age or early Bronze age group. * book: The English language: An Owner's manual by Thomas & Tchudi 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I love that Romany is a really close relation to ancient Sanskrit - another amazing historical fact! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I had just read that the first part of the word Freedom comes from both German and Sanskrit. Not a direct answer to your question, but AFAIK, (I studied sanskrit for 5 years)..there is no equivalent word for abstract 'Free'in sanskrit. All the words are contextual- i.e. free from something or freedom from something. From my limited googling, it would seem like free/freedom is rooted in old english, german and dutch? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=free&allowed_in_frame=0 It's cognate with Sanskrit priyah "own, dear, beloved," priyate "loves. Notice that the phoneme /f/ in English is /p/ in Sanskrit. This is typical, and you can find many such pairs in various Indo-European languages. Just off the top of my head (and moving past Sanskrit into another Indo-European language many of us may be more familiar with), Latin ped = English foot, Latin pisces = English fish, and Latin pater = English father. (But Latin frater = English brother, so, you know, it's not a perfect relationship.) Edit: Cognate is a term that means two morphemes are related. It doesn't mean they have the same meaning, or even sound very much the same, it just means they ultimately come from the same historical root. Morphemes are, of course, the smallest unit in a word that has any meaning. All words comprise at least one morpheme. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Not a direct answer to your question, but AFAIK, (I studied sanskrit for 5 years)..there is no equivalent word for abstract 'Free'in sanskrit. All the words are contextual- i.e. free from something or freedom from something. From my limited googling, it would seem like free/freedom is rooted in old english, german and dutch? Wow - where did you study Sanskrit for 5 years? I rarely meet people with that background outside of my own little circle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer&Mom Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 According to my linguistics text: Sanskrit and German are Proto-Indo-European languages. Germanic languages is one major branch. Modern German is way down on a limb. Sanskrit comes off the Indian branch, which then branches into Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, and Romany. "Indo-European is believed to have originated with a group of people known to archaeologists as the Kurgan Culture. They probably lived in a geographic region north of the Caspian Sea, in today's Ukraine, some five to seven thousand years ago." Kurgans were semi-nomadic, a late stone age or early Bronze age group. * book: The English language: An Owner's manual by Thomas & Tchudi I believe the current theory is that ethnic Germanic tribes have lived in present day Germany for +20,000 years, and subsequently acquired indo-European language from nomadic groups like the Kurgans around 4,000 years ago. I recommend "The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World" by David W. Anthony. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wow - where did you study Sanskrit for 5 years? I rarely meet people with that background outside of my own little circle! School. :-) and then, my parents belong to a group that reads, writes and speaks sanskrit in everyday life to help revive it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebunny Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MamaBearTeacher Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thank you all for your explanations, links and book recommendations! It is really fascinating. I always thought of related languages as being very close geographically but it seems that reach is very far, from India to Scandinavia to China! What about other languages that are close geographically: other Asian languages, Arabic, Hebrew? Are Mandarin and Cantonese related to Indo-European languages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'd recommend reading The Loom of Language by Frederick Bodmer. This rambling book takes on many tasks, including offering a method to learn many languages easily. For me the most fascinating part was the author showing how languages developed across Europe from a Proto Indo-European root. Really fascinating (if you like this sort of thing). Published in 1944, there are some dated elements from an author who dreamed of world peace at the height of WWII. Good stuff. Bill Oh, I have this book. It is fascinating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandra Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thank you all for your explanations, links and book recommendations! It is really fascinating. I always thought of related languages as being very close geographically but it seems that reach is very far, from India to Scandinavia to China! What about other languages that are close geographically: other Asian languages, Arabic, Hebrew? Are Mandarin and Cantonese related to Indo-European languages?One thing that fascinates me is that some areas have completely unrelated languages right next to each other, as in the Caucasus. Many indigenous North American languages are unrelated, as I understand. I read that one of the most rewarding places for linguists is New York City. Apparently, it has some of the last remaining speakers of various endangered languages! http://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/nyregion/29lost.html?referrer= 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 In addition to Indo-European, there are other language families. Some people have tried to create the ultimate proto langauge that would tie everything together, but that's entirely speculation.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_families That link is useful to see the generally accepted families. Indo-European is more geographically diverse than most. Many languages haven't been studied well enough yet to prove connections which may or may nor exist with other languages. Arabic and Hebrew are fairly closely related, but they are in an entirely different language family (the Semitic branch of the Afroasiatic family) than either Farsi which is from the Iranic branch of Indo-European, and Turkish which is in the Turkic family which itself might be actually part of a larger family, but that's not proven yet. And like a pp mentioned, there are many places in the world with siginicant diversity in a relatively tiny area. So interesting. It can be very hard to determine if a language is linguistically related to another or if it has simply picked up certain grammatical elements because of close contact with another, unrelated language. Turkic and Mongolic languages have a lot of similar elements, but most linguists don't think there's enough evidence to prove they're linguistically related. There are Turkic languages than have picked up a lot of Iranic grammatical and vocabulary usage because of long and close contact with Iranic languages, but they are still Turkic (and the same goes the other direction- Iranic languages with Turkic influence). Another example of this is English. With its significant vocabulary borrowed from Romance languages, it can look like it's related to those, but it's actually from the Germanic family. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammie Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 School. :-) and then, my parents belong to a group that reads, writes and speaks sanskrit in everyday life to help revive it. There is a group of older folks in our neighborhood who meet twice a week with a Sanskrit teacher...keeping the language alive! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I live in the SF Bay Area and know of several people who attend weekly sanskrit classes (with their kids) in order to learn sanskrit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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